Looking at getting a first spear gun

[Diving Gecko]

Hey guys im new here and im looking for a speargun.Im 14 and im looking around 40-50 cm what would be better?

Sounds quite short. Very short for a bandgun, especially.
But why don't you tell us where you fish and what you are hoping to catch?

And not to sound old... but you should really try to find someone to dive with. Spearos die. Alone. Easy as that. It is rare, of course, but it happens. Learning, in person(!), from someone with more experience than you or joining a club is by far the best route to take.

There are very few places now, that doesn't have local spearos and I have found the community to be exceptionally helpful. Not only online but also very much in real life.

 

[Salt&Pepper]

I fish in greece and specifically in thassos.The water is warm in summer so i decided it would be cool if me and my friend went spearfishing together.At the beach that is close to our houses in thassos we swim deep ( about 10 meters ) and see a lot of big fish such as seabass and others

 

[Salt&Pepper]

Also we dont have any spearfishing clubs in kavala or thassos i checked

 

[Diving Gecko]

Greece should be full of spearos. I would be very surprised if there isn't an online forum in Greece for spearos. I know of at least two such forums in Italy and we even have a few in tiny Denmark.
There's gotta be either that or a Facebook group in Greece that can help you out.
You speak Greek?

 

[Salt&Pepper]

Yes i do speak greek and by spearos you mean what?

 

[Diving Gecko]

Yes i do speak greek and by spearos you mean what?

That's good. So, consider spending some more time online and look for Greek online forums. I am not trying to brush you off, but before I tell you to go out and buy a 70-90cm (maybe bigger?) gun for conditions I don't know personally and without knowing what a 14-y-o. can handle and load, it just makes a whole lot more sense that you try to find some proper local knowledge and hopefully someone near you in person, too.

That said, loading guns is about having the right technique. But, of course, it might make sense to go with longer and/or thinner bands to start with. Then there's a whole other issue about safe diving and how to handle spearguns in a safe manner.

Spearo = spearfisher, spearfisherman, spearfisherwoman

 

[Salt&Pepper]

Thanks for the advice! Do you know how much power a 60 cm speargun needs to be loaded?

 

[Diving Gecko]

Thanks for the advice! Do you know how much power a 60 cm speargun needs to be loaded?

Can't help you with that, I shoot pneumatic guns.
The power to load a bandgun (speargun with rubber bands) depends on how thick the rubbers are and how long they have been cut. Thin rubbers are around 14-16mm, thick ones 18-20mm. But if they are cut a bit long, it means they don't have to be stretched that much to get hooked onto the spear.
If you are lucky enough to find an experienced local spearo, they would very likely be able to help you set up a gun which works for you.

I'd even consider buying a nice, second hand gun and then spending a bit of money on some nice rubbers that suits you. Then you'll have a great and very affordable first gun. You won't feel bad about banging it around on the reef, either and if you happen to not go spearing as much as you thought, then not a big loss either.

 

[Salt&Pepper]

Thank you very much for your advice!!!

 

[Andrew the fish]

Salt and Pepper, just buy a gun and start fishing man. You can surf the internet and look for spearo's forums all winter long, but you will learn a lot more in one day of fishing. Also, check youtube, you can enter the name of your place and I am sure there will be some video with someone fishing around your area. You will see what gun he is using and what fish he catches etc. I was on many Greek Islands, Lemnos, Lesbos, Siros, Skiros, Mikonos can't remember names of half of them. It was over 20 years ago when I was still racing sailboats. I remember vividly pristine clear waters, and a lot of big fish. So it is definitely what spearos call "blue water" spearfishing. You need 90cm or longer gun in Greece. That is what I would do if I was there again, I would just go to any local store and buy speargun and fish the same afternoon. Just my 2c

 

[Diving Gecko]

Well,
I see I do have one amazing thing in common with Andrew - I used to race sailboats, too;-)

I don't think I am asking Salt&Pepper to stay landlocked in front of his computer all winter. If it came across like that, I am sorry.
Also, my point is not only about safety, my point is about getting an introduction to spearing in a way where it'll actually be fun right out of the box. Where you don't just order a shitty newbie gun on Scubastore in the wrong length, and the rigging breaks on the 3rd outing.

I used to teach kids to sail optis and we wouldn't just throw them in the dinghy and say: "off you go". I've heard from enough friends whom had to start like this and either they gave up sailing or it took time to overcome a frightful start.
But I guess, this is different. Opti kids are younger and Salt&Pepper seems to already be cool in the water, so it's more about adding a gun to that. Not a whole new world.
I just guess, my sailing instructor mentality/personality has stuck.

Anyways, I still don't think it is bad advice to spend 2-3 days trying to find a local spearo to help hook him up with the right gear from the very beginning.
Also, I didn't spear when I was 14 and I don't know his strength, so I have no clue what he can load.

But I've tried driving an hour to a dive spot in Denmark and dropping in with a newly acquired 75mm bandgun with a very short 18mm rubber, that I could hardly load - I finally did, and it messed badly with my shoulder. The dive was shitty and I didn't feel like shooting the gun in fear of having to reload it, haha. I've also dropped in the Andaman Sea with a pneumatic that was too pressurized (before I got a pressure gauge), but luckily I had another gun on the boat, so though not the right length for what I intended to hunt, it was less of a setback.

@Salt&Pepper, Andrew is right - if you can find a local shop, then that could work out well. Some shops are just fishing tackle shops that carry a bit of spearing gear which they may or may not know much about. But maybe there's a really good one.
Also, Andrew is right in that once you are in the water, you do learn a lot. Fast.
If you have to drive/travel a bit to go to the shop, bring an adult - or check with the shop if there's an age limit to buying. No fun bussing it somewhere with money in your pocket just to find out you have to be 18 to buy a gun. (Which I read is the case sometimes).

If you need to buy online, then let us know and I am sure people here can give you a general idea of what to look for or even a few specific options if you give us your budget.
If you buy a set of thinner rubbers, too, you should also not have to have loading issues and as your technique improves you can shorten them or change back to the original ones.

If you wanna buy secondhand, I can recommend buying from the Italian forum here:
http://pescasubapnea.forumfree.it/?f=387295

There are often very good deals on that forum, Italian spearos tend to know their stuff and the conditions should/could be very similar, so my guess is that you could get a very nice gun there, in your length, rigged and in working order.

 

[Diving Gecko]

I checked on the Italian forum. In the last month or so, there's been 3 Omer Cayman HF in 75cm for sale at around 70-100 euros. That's a 300 USD gun at new, I think.
The Omer has a really nice handle and perhaps 75cm is a good length you wont grow out of too fast. You can easily change rubbers on them, too.

Also, a bit more to look at here:
http://www.spearfishingforum.gr/
(They also have second hand guns)

https://www.facebook.com/greeceandspearfishing

 

[Salt&Pepper]

Thanks a lot for all the advice. I will probably start with a 75cm with 16mm bands.Also i can lift my friends even though Im lighter.We have a shop in kavala called Captain Hook
http://www.captainhook.gr
i saw a 75cm xdive pro gun there for 63€ . Is that a descent price.Also the website is in greek.Thanks again for all the support!!!☺☺☺

 

[Diving Gecko]

Thanks a lot for all the advice. I will probably start with a 75cm with 16mm bands.Also i can lift my friends even though Im lighter.We have a shop in kavala called Captain Hook
http://www.captainhook.gr
i saw a 75cm xdive pro gun there for 63€ . Is that a descent price.Also the website is in greek.Thanks again for all the support!!!☺☺☺

Send us a direct link to the gun, I can't find it on that site.
Right off the bat, I'd say it sounds too cheap to be worth anything. Sorry, but it's rare that you don't get what you pay for and if it's this cheap, then they could very well have cut too many corners.

If your budget is less than 100 euros, I'd def recommend you get a secondhand gun.
Guns are hard to destroy. Yeah, they get scratched and wont look new after a short while. But add 20-40 years of use and a good gun will still shoot well.
But spearos are often lusting for new gear, or they are letting go of a gun they never really used much - so just because a gun is for sale doesn't mean, it's not good. As pointed out previously, you can find deals that cost 2-3 times more when new.

You wont get the "satisfaction" of unboxing it or putting the first few scratches in it. But a speargun is not a blingey iPhone, it's a tool. Would you feel bad about buying a secondhand hammer? No, right?;-)
Well, a speargun might be closer to an iPhone but still, it will get hammered soon enough. You will make it yours my using it and once you have your first few fish on it, you will forget who owned it before!

So, settle on a length and then look for a good deal. Especially unless you can spend more money.

Btw, read this - sobering thread...:
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/how-to-convince-my-parents-to-let-me-go-spearfishing.104046/

[Oh, I just realized he is from Corfu. I know, not close to you, but perhaps chat to him about what length of gun he started out with and such]

 

[Diving Gecko]

[...}Also, check youtube, you can enter the name of your place and I am sure there will be some video with someone fishing around your area. You will see what gun he is using and what fish he catches etc. [...]

I watch tons of videos on youtube to glean how other people hunt, what gear they use and if there's any little trick, I can adopt. It's very inspirational, though it hurts too, being more or less landlocked as I am in Shanghai.

I've watched a lot from the Med, and lately a lot from Greece.

But if our young friend does what you say, there's a big chance he would straight out and buy a 110-115cm double banded gun. At the very least, a 90cm one. I'm not sure that's the right first gun for him.

Salt and Pepper, just buy a gun and start fishing man. [...]

On another thread, another very young spearo lost his cousin due to shallow water blackout (they weren't diving together), and the more I think about it, the less I agree with your advice to just buy a gun and get in the water.

I know you are an old competitive sailor and I know few people who are as good as regatta sailors on and in the water. I like to believe, I am one of them;-). I don't think I have ever been scared of the ocean, but I do respect it and I have also been freediving for longer than I have been spearing, so I feel I have a very good idea of my diving capabilities. Furthermore, I never ever push anywhere close to my personal freediving bests while spearing. Neither in depth nor in breath-hold.
But this is, after all, a 14-y-o. kid. I, for sure, did not always take as good care of myself at that age as I should have. It's just how most teenage boys function. It's nature;-)

So, Salt&Pepper, allow me to be old and parent-like again.
Adhere to these very basics:

- Please don't dive alone
- Don't ever push your bottom time
- Keep your surface time generous (at least 3 times your bottom times)
- Don't dive at the same time as your buddy and keep an eye on him when he dives and vice versa
- Let people on shore know where you intend to dive and when you will be back
- If there's the least chance of any boat traffic, you need a surface buoy
- Practice proper rescue and handling of a blacked-out diver with your buddy. This is a life-saving method that every spearo should now. But too many don't
- Beware of any current and it's strength, direction and possibly the time of it changing direction. Start your dives by swimming against the current, so later in the day, when you are tired, you wont need to swim home against it. But for now, stay close to the shore if there's fish there
- Don't ever point a speargun at your buddy or yourself or anything you do not want to hit. Misfires happens. Do not trust the safety on your gun and keep your finger off the trigger unless when aiming
- Oh, and if you have any issues with equalization, then never push your dives to any levels where you feel pain in your ears. Learn how to EQ properly​

For your next birthday or for Xmas, put a freediving course on your wishlist. I can not recommend this enough. It will teach you rescue techniques and better dive techniques. But always remember to dive much more conservatively when spearing.
Though deaths in our sport are relatively rare, spearos die much more frequently than freedivers. That's a simple fact. The lack of a proper buddy accounts for most of the deaths. You can blackout on a freediving session (and that's not that uncommon) but you will always have a buddy or an instructor to get you to the surface and get you breathing. If that happens when you are spearing alone or with a buddy who is busy hunting himself...:-(

So, there you have it. I, personally, strongly encourage you to get a gun and start diving after you have done your home work, practiced rescues and done what you could to find a local spearo who can help you out on your first few dives.

 

[Diving Gecko]

I really hate to update this post and yet again bring safety into it but if you, like me, spend time on a few different forums it dawns upon you, how deadly our sport can be.
Now, sadly a 15-y-o. just lost his live to SWB this past weekend.

People do lose their lives spearing regularly. I suspect this will go up as more and more are joining the sport more easily and on their own.
Dive conservatively, dive with a buddy, learn rescue techniques. Do it!

I am not dissuading anyone from freediving or spearing, they are both sports I hold dearly myself. But we can not, in good faith, tell 14 year olds to just get on with it without any kind of experienced supervision or guidance.

Divers in the Med dive as deep as anybody because it is so over fished there and the good fish are wary. So, even though our young friend seems to have fish on his door step he might in a year or three start venturing further out. That's when it becomes even more important that he has his shit under control.

OK, enough again.

Cheers,
David

 

[MozSpearer]

Hi Salt and Pepper.

I just have to add to this thread as well. I'm 16 so I know more or less what your situation is. Actually I started spearfishing when I was 13. I started before I found DB but I had read up a lot about safety in spearfishing. I am very safety conscious so I never pushed at all.

I had also started free diving when I was 7 so I was already comfortable in the water. It seems that you are as well.

I completly agree with Diving Gecko. We aren't trying to dissuade new young ones from starting to spearfish. We are only concerned about the safety of new ones. So definetly try and fish with somebody experienced. If you can't find someone at least dive with a friend, but please only take one gun! Always dive one up one down. This is the same I do with my 14 yo brother. This is even though the reef we dive on is about 5-8m deep.

I know the teenager tendency to show off in front of friends and always push your limits, but in spearfishing and freediving IT IS NOT THE WAY TO DO IT! You can gradually build on your limits with time.

With regards to the gun. I am no expert but I'll just share my experience. By the time I was 12 I could load a 1m gun with 16mm bands. As it has been said, technique is more important than raw power. When I put new bands on however I found it difficult to load. So I would suggest a gun of at least 90cm if not 1m. Since the waters there are bit on the clear side a longer gun would be favourable as long as you can load it. There's nothing more frustrating than shooting at a fish and the spear falls short. So I'd say get the longest gun you can load. And like it has been said, you're less likely to skewer yourself as well.

It may be hard for some to accept advice from older members(even though they know a lot more and are very experienced). It's also a teenager thing. Although this may not apply to you Salt and Pepper. So I thought I'd also add my 2c worth to the others' posts. It may be easier to listen to someone your age.

Be careful out there but have fun. A float and a floatline is a must for new people in spearfishing. It allows you to drop your gun without losing it if you are in a hurry for a breath or fighting a fish. The float can also help to rest

Carefully read all the posts of the experienced members on this thread and others as well. They know a lot! You might also want to check out the thread "Reef hunting techniques for 14 yo spearo". It's the one where I was looking for advice on refining my spearfishing. You might find the safety tips there from the other members useful. Wisdom comes with age.

TAke it easy, always dive with a buddy and always safety first!

Sorry for the mouthful but I just wanted to add something to the thread.

Cheers
Mozzie

 

[Aquatic_Ape _Theory]

Hello all,
a friend and I

 

[Aquatic_Ape _Theory]

w

Hello all,
a friend and I

want to start spearfishing we will be spearfishing around North Wales and possibly a few trips to Cornwall i am wondering if anyone can suggest what spear-gun i should buy and band lenght/size/number i should use.

 

[Mr. X]

BTW Some rubbers are much harder to load & more powerful than others of the same diameter. The bulk rubber loops typically used on railguns (RA/Mako/Rabitech/etc.) are very thick and have only a very narrow central hole, which is usually used to hold the toggles for their Dyneema wishbones. On a euro-gun with screw-in rubbers, the rubber is usually much thinner and - because of the screw-in bits - significantly shorter than bulk rubber loops.

Hello all,
a friend and I want to start spearfishing we will be spearfishing around North Wales and possibly a few trips to Cornwall i am wondering if anyone can suggest what spear-gun i should buy and band length/size/number i should use.

Good recovery!
My 2 cents: 75cm european-style speargun with 16mm rubbers. 80cm might work well too. Something in the range 75-90cm is usually recommended for band guns in the UK - although 60cm-100cm wouldn't be too far out. Cornwall often has clear water (=>90-120cm speargun?) but it often has murky water too (=>60-80cm speargun?). Not sure about N. Wales, I would think the water is less clear but I could be wrong -- I have fished there with rods but not dived.

If you start with a 75cm speargun, loading & handling will be easier - and you definitely will run into murky conditions diving around the UK from time-to-time/often. If you are fortunate to run into clear conditions often, you -or your pal - could always buy a longer second speargun later. For example, I currently have 2 spearguns: 75cm Omer XXV & 90cm Omer XXV - so most parts are interchangeable & the Omer muzzles offer a lot of different configuration options, (e.g.the 75 now has non-standard 20mm bulk rubber loop with dyneema wishbone & the 90 still has standard screw-in bands but I change the French articulated wishbone for screw-on Dyneema, both currently have closed muzzles but may change one to open muzzle later). I use the 75cm far more than the 90cm speargun. In hindsight, for clear conditions, a 100cm Omer Cayman - which is larger & heavier, with a larger, more ergonomic handle & advanced constant force trigger - might have offered an interesting alternative to the super-slim, super-light 90cm Omer XXV (90 can be rather short for very clear conditions).

Brand/model is not so critical. Cressi Comanche can be good value. I like Omersub, Beuchat make some nice products. There are some interesting smaller companies, esp. in Italy. In general I would suggest not getting the very cheapest models (although likely they will work fine), nor the most expensive (ditto) - you want something that is decent with all the essentials, not compromised by excessive cost reductions nor gold-plated with fripperies.