Lunocet photos from DEMA

[trux]

Fondueset, didn't you try putting latex or neoprene socks (slick side out) over the shoes to improve the hydrodynamics? I know that the main problem is the position of the feet that is not streamlined, but perhaps covering the bulky shoes would help a bit anyway.

 

[Mullins]

We also tried the Dolfin in the bahamas. I'll pm you about it.

That doesn't sound very promising...

re the Lunocet, I guess it needs extensive re-engineering before it's a worthy alternative to monofins, so Ted may have gone back to the drawing board.

 

[Fondueset]

Laminar has more time in with the dolfin that I. He was able to make it go pretty well. My main issue with it was the sort of kluged footplatforms - it was hard to get strapped in right and to keep the fin lined up. I would call he one we used an early beta. It also tended to side slip and was hard to control. Those are both things that could be pretty easy to fix.
It is a very simple design with low drag and minimal strain on the feet - a big plus for winter diving. Thrust-wise it wasn't particularly impressive, but neither did it require much effort. Laminar took it down to 30m with no problems. I didn't have the patience to really work with it, but there is definitely some potential there.

I'd like to see a more comprehensive review by Laminar. I'd say my complaints more to do with the temporary foot arrangement than anything else - and my own lack of patience after I hurt my knee with the lunocet.

 

[trux]

I see that the Lunocet website has changed design again, so although there is now less information than on the old website, and no new entries in the blog since Novemebr, it looks like Ted is still working on it. Not hearing any news since the tests by Fondueset and Co. I was little bit afraid the silence means the project was put aside, but if they work on webdesign again, it looks better. I do not want to bother Ted personally by email, although he was always very helpful and ansering quickly, but I hope we'll hear some good news from him soon.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

This is an interesting thread. Lot of good points but a few really stick out:

Terrafugia is right speed is more important than power, watch an inefficient "burst" swimmer swim next to a lean swimmer with good technique in the water. Harnessing the power with the proper undulation and amplitude of the kick stroke is key to achieving the necessary speed.
Trux is right about the need for variable stiffness, too stiff at the beginning and you won't be able to build up to speed efficiently, I think a good set of variable stifness elastomers would work well for the purpose of making a fin for breaching.

The design of the Lunocet monofin from this thread and the pictures (I still have not gone to their site to explore but will after this) make me think the design is good for the objective of breaching and the anatomy of humans.

Other monofins are not designed right for this purpose, makes me want to give the C4 Monoflap a try though just to see what it's limits are in this department although I don't think it's the proper solution obviously as discussed.

Since breaching seems to be the wholy grail of this discussion and the intended pursuit why not give it some good butterfliers to try, how about Matt Biondi who lives on the Big Island or Anthony Nesty, retired Olympic butterfliers? Shoot I wasn't a butterflier but I'd still love to try it! My impression is if you go to a swim meet or watch videos of butterfliers starting from the blocks is (think Eric F also mentioned this) creating momentum off the start with the right undulation would give the highest probability of success with a really good swimmer...

Clear waters,



ps- not true about Sporasub using "their" idea about bicycle shoesrofl I've broken and tested a few of the early prototypes the last two years and "they" were working on the project for years well before they let me try out a pair. They never tire your legs or wear out your ankles, efficiency and comfort are the principal advantages.

 

[trux]

ps- not true about Sporasub using "their" idea about bicycle shoesrofl I've broken and tested a few of the early prototypes the last two years and "they" were working on the project for years well before they let me try out a pair. They never tire your legs or wear out your ankles, efficiency and comfort are the principal advantages.

Thanks for the info, Mark. Good to know. And it makes sense, after seeing the photos and the description on Sporasub's new website, I see they are not plain cycling shoes, but shoes specially developed for that purpose. And I think it indeed takes much more than a couple of weeks or few months to develop and manufacture such product, so the two years sound indeed much more likely.

BTW, Mark, if you tested it, how is it with the streamliness of the Sporasub Revolution fin? On the first look, I'd tell they won't be ideal for gliding - the shoe does not really look too streamlined. And what do you think about the missing side rails? Don't the fin push too much water sideways, creating turbulences?

EDIT: ah, I see you posted also in the Sporasub thread - yes, it is more on topic there

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

in regards to streamlining - keep in mind the aim of the new Sporasub revolution fin and the Lunocet are entirely different. How fast does a spearfisherman need to move through the water while hunting? Now if you're trying to design a fin for breaching...
I'll reply to your other concern in the other thread in order not to derail this really cool Lunacet project

 

[Jon]

Mark, have you tried the new C4 Monoflap yet? I haven't seen any public reviews of it yet.

I love the Mustang footpockets on my flap 30's, but that's one pricey fin to buy without a demo first.

I like the bike shoe idea on the bi-fins. I could see them as being the next step forward- after the Mustang's.

Jon

 

[Fondueset]

FYI all - I exchanged emails with Ted a few days ago. He has made the design changes he thinks will improve the Lunocet, but has not had time to implement them.

Like many folks he's feeling the pinch of this entropic economy and is focusing, I'm sure, on his more profitable ventures.

It seems to me a bike shoe mod for regular bifin blades would not be too difficult. I also agree with Mark - I don't think streamlining with bifins is a big deal.

The prevailing theory regarding the difficulties we encountered with the Lunocet is that the positioning of the shoes relative to the blade was actually disrupting the thrust - rather than drag from the shoes being the problem - though I think theres some of that too - mainly because of the position and angle of the feet. Anyway - since the fin blades work differently from the foils on the Lunocet I don't think hydrodynamically unclean shoes will have much impact on bifins or for that matter - as much impact on a conventional monofin. (light bulb!!)

 

[trux]

Well, I have some comments, but since they are related to Sporasub, I am posting them to the other thread.

 

[Haydn]

Surely its a simple matter of using a bouyant wetsuit on a skinny freediver with fab technique accelerating from 30ms. My problem is I carry 50 lbs too much weight on my belly, to get further out of the water. Its the weight and the drag of my blubber that spoils it, not the fault of the fin. I can neverthless still get the whole of my speedos out the water. Look at Bevan Dewars breach and you will see what I mean.