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Lunocet photos from DEMA

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Ol Dirty Diver

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2006
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Knowing that the Lunocet would be on display at DEMA, I jumped at the opportunity to tag along with my friends who would have a booth there (Immersion watches/Hammerhead Spearguns). Thought I'd snap a few photos for those who are interested:

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Considering our eager anticipation of the Lunocet, I expected that there would be a crowd of divers perpetually crowded around it. But this was hardly the case. DEMA apparently draws few competitive freedivers...I've been surrounded instead by throngs of bubble blowers the last few days.

Only one Lunocet was on display. I expected that there would be several, so as to show off the various graphic designs, as well as allow for individuals to try on the different foot pocket sizes (I believe there are supposed to be six). Nico Danan was present at the booth to address this and answer my questions.

They weren't able to bring more Lunocets because the U.S. Navy recently became very interested in it. Due to this pressure, Ciamillo and crew are once again redesigning it to further improve it and bring it up to the military's standards. The main change mentioned was fashioning more of the parts from titanium. The Lunocet crew is very interested in fostering the Navy's interest because they would provide for much greater capabilities in R&D and testing. However, this distraction with the Navy caused their reduced presence at DEMA.

Because only one Lunocet was brought to the show no demo testing of it in the water took place. There is a pool at the show for demonstrating products, but it is really too small to allow worthwhile testing. I came prepared with a point-and-shoot and housing to take some video clips, but we'll just have to continue to be mystified as to its performance. However, Nico assured me that its performance will live up to our high expectations. The next opportunities to see it will be at demos on the east coast of the United States.

I was curious as to how many Lunocets are actually out there now. Nico told me that the first batch of orders will be fulfilled in the next few weeks, so no one actually has one yet. Approximately 30 individuals have placed orders so far.

As much as the Lunocet may be a very worthy addition to my Batcave on its appearance alone, I'm still going to hold out until I hear of some individuals getting to try it out.
 
Thanks for the update. I can't wait to hear what people think of them.
 
Looks like a work of art. Hopefully performs like one! Reminds me of the Italian sportbikes- gorgeous. But they tend to have issues with reliability, compared to the Japanese bikes.
 
Hello Kurt,

A big Mahalo to you for sharing the pics of the Lunocet from the DEMA show.
I'm one of the 30 individuals who are on the list to receive one at the present. Well, having the Navy interested in it <should> help if it makes it even lighter, faster and more efficient. I will share my input with the DB Forum after I have received mine. I'm in Northern California. I'm hoping to test the Lunocet in early '09 on the Big Island. I'll keep you updated.

Stay Wet,

Bill
 
The design looks very labour intensive, not to mention design intensive.

I'm looking forward seeing it be used by a capable finswimmer/freediver, and have their detailed reports and comparisons with the well know current monofin designs.

How much does it weigh?

Does it still has 'speed' configuration option?

Does it offer any other adjustments like 'foot-pocked to blade angle' ?

What is it's retail price?

Personally I'm not charmed with military involvement. But I understand that in this world of "Either you are with US (U.S.?) or with the terrorist" the choices are challenging.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars
 
I wonder what interest the navy have in it... I can't imagine they'd want to kit their scuba divers out with them, where's the benefit? Perhaps they're looking more broadly into some aspects of hydrodynamics and propulsion with a view to other UW applications? Whatever the reason, they'll be able to bring a ****load of resources to bear on the R&D so it's probably a good thing as far as we're concerned (ideological reservations aside, that is).
 
I think the Russian military was involved in monofin development in CCCP days. A Lunocet'd SEAL on a compact rebreather could probably cause a lot of havoc. Remember the Italians/Brits (and Brits with Italians that helped after being captured) riding minisubs and using rebreathers doing shitloads of damage in WWII!
 
True - I wonder how much benefit you'd get from using a mono though, given speed underwater is largely about streamlining rather than thrust? I suppose if they somehow gave their divers really streamlined profiles then they might be able to make use of the extra grunt. Still no match for a DPV, but quieter.
 
Will this kind of fins be allowed at finswimming competitions? They look too technical for finswimming though. Too heavy too.
 
I think they're actually quite light, but I'm not sure CMAS allows moving parts. In any case, the blade looks like it might be outside the dimensions allowed for finswimming (760mm x 760mm)?
 
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me thinks some one is re inventing the wheel
has anyone actualy worn one yet apart from testing the thing
just hope its worth while for the manufcturer
if its banned by cmas and in fin swimming aida will probably ban it too which just leaves spearos recreational divers and gadget heads like me
(all the gear no idea)
so good luck
 
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As for the weight - this is answered in the FAQ on Lunocet's website - it weights 2.5 pounds, which is largely lighter than most monofins (especially those with a sufficient angle). Assuming they are working on a design involving more hi-tech material for the military, it will be probably even lighter.

As for moving parts or mechanics - that's banned both in CMAS and at fin-swimming too, so there is no chance Lunocet would be allowed. AIDA rules do not address it directly, but the general clause banning any equipment giving unusual advantage might be used against it too.

As for military involvement, especially with the US military which is certainly by big distance the worldwide aggressor number 1, from the ethic point of view, I am not very happy about it either, but it is real that development or productions for the military is a bless for any manufacturer. Already DARPA received almost 3 millions of USD from the US taxpayers money for developing a more efficient propulsive device. All what they had to do for all that nice packet of money, was building a ripped off copy of the Aqueon, calling it PowerSwim, and claiming it their invention (the patent was too old to protect the original invention anymore). Read more about it in this thread: http://forums.deeperblue.com/659466-post36.html

Seeing what amount of work, time, and money Ted already invested in the development of the Lunocet, I think he would deserve the subvention much more than the shameless plagiators from DARPA. Already building the artificial testing lagoon is worth of a good part of the grant DARPA received.
 
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If marketed properly then it won't matter whether our tiny part of the sport allows a Lunocet in competition or not. I don't think that the amount of competitors that would actually buy one if it were allowed in comps would even cover the cost of R&D for this device. This is hi-tec, and hi-tec appeals to people with money to burn that are looking for a new experience, even if it sits in the garage all year and gets in the water a few times ever. Think "Outside" magazine, "Playboy" and and a few other men's lifestyle mags- articles and ads there would sell tons of these if it works.
I don't compete anymore and sold my monofin a few years back, but I'd buy one if it does what it claims.
 
Well, there are a few standout things that make the lunocet appealing almost regardless of actual performance relative to a hyperfin style fin.

Well Made - it is definitely a very solid piece of kit - not likely to degrade in the way monofins often do.

Portable - way more portable than a monofin. You could strap this puppy to a small pack - vertically - and bike or hike to dive sites. Also smaller profile and sturdier for travel - particularly if Ted completes a folding model as is rumored.

Cool looking.

I think the Lunocet is increasingly aimed at its own market. It is stylish enough to create its own demand. And the advantage of being easily packable is huge. I mean you could take this thing backpacking easily.

Compared with conventional monofins I can only guess - but my guess is the lunocet may be quite formidable in vertical dives on ascent. Mainly though I think its appeal will be in 'sea-hiking'. It basically weighs as much or less than a pair of conventional freediving fins and is more packable. You could bring this thing along biking or or hiking with no problem.
 
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The sea-hiking idea is an interesting one. I agree, it will have a market of its own and seems to be aimed largely at recreational swimmers. But you'd still need to be a very good monofinner to get decent performance out of it, so I wonder how many casual divers will get one only to find the expertise it requires is beyond them.

As I mentioned before, something that strikes me about the emphasis they're putting on breaching - aside from it being a compelling idea and good marketing - is that one's max speed, and therefore breaching ability, would largely be determined by streamlining and technique rather than by straightforward power input. So even if you got 15% extra grunt from the lunocet (which would be a huge gain and would have me buying one in a second) it wouldn't make you much faster unless you had very flexible shoulders and good core strength to stop your knees bending. Maybe Ted should start looking at what he can do to streamline the human form, because that's where some enormous gains in speed could be made.
 
Those are good questions - I've been wondering myself about the knee bending issue. Some of what I've seen and read leads me to think it may be designed to be driven more by the thighs - with more knee bend than a monofin. That further leads me to wonder if the Lunocet is geared more toward acceleration than cruise and if breaching with it is more sort of a brute force type of maneuver - rather than making efficient use of hydrodynamics. The extent videos would seem to support that, but they are all with the old design - which appears to have less surface area and more drag and lacks the benefit of the silicone trailing edge as well as the filled surface between blades.
 
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