Mares Cyrano Evo HF 110 Review

[Teonanacatl]

Received my 110 hf ages ago but thought Id better get some use from it before posting a review.
Firstly up until now Ive only really used a 40cm pneumatic gun with which Ive shot my share of fish. The vis here is generally 5m or less. Ive used a few friends railguns and shot some good fish with them. I actually got this pneumatic gun as Ive always been familiar and happy with pneumatic guns and it were comparable in cost to a lot of railguns when I was looking.

First re the 110 vs the 90, when the 110 gun is in the water its light and tracks well. The 90 would track better but I dont see the need for it. For most conditions where I dive this gun will be fine and I dont see the need to buy a 90 as well. If I had both guns I would no doubt pick and choose but I think really if one bought either the 90 or 110 they would be happy.

Ive tried a few different pressures, at 15 bar I can easily load the gun without placing it on my foot just by holding the spear by the shaft. At 20 bar I can load it without the extended loader using just my hands on the spear shaft but the extended loader is safer and easier. Im 181cm tall and of light build and I have no trouble loading it. I have been using the extended loader even though I dont need it as it makes it easier. Ive settled on just over 20 bar for now though when I get home from this trip I will be pumping it up to 25+. Loading it to me seems like a dangerous exercise- probably one of the most legitimate concerns I have with a pneumatic vs rail gun.

The safety on the gun is great, as is the power reducer. Both are easy to use. Mares has made the trigger user adjustable in a few ways and I have made the trigger less sensitive as I dont mind giving the trigger a good pull.

I fired it whilst my friend was nearby, he is a railgun user and he commented on how loud it was, my thoughts on the sound were that its on par with a railgun maybe a little louder but the sound is very different, more of a boink sound. The sound is reduced at reduced pressure and I dont consider it to be a problem, after all a shot and frantically swimming fish is sending out way more warning signs to other fish then a random boink sound.

Ive used the gun on a few fish up to 60cm and on a lot of them the spear went all the way through leaving the fish on the line. Ive also had one deflection which surprised me. The gun is powerful and hits @5m with some power though there is a bit of spear drop over this range. The spear seems to go very slowly though the water but still much faster then any fish Ive aimed at.

The power reducer is excellent!!!! As is the guns production in general.

Now the dislikes! The line holder doesnt click back into place after a shot very well so one must insure it clicks back before trying to load it. The gun goes off underwater if it gets bumped on things (say coral) in a way that causes the spear to go back into the gun at all. For example poking a shark with a loaded gun would result in it going off. The trigger in the gun has been made very light and I dont like it. Ive also had it go off when trying to remove the extended loader from the spear. Now I havent tried poking things with the safety on to see if that stops it. Overall I find Im mostly worried about safety with this thing.

I was much happier with my purchase then I am now, Im now considering buying a rail gun (probably a rob allen tuna) and keeping which ever of the two I like the most.

Pros:
- Powerful
- Compact and light in the water
- Easy to aim and shoot
- Easy to load even at 20bar
- Not particularly loud

Cons:
- Fires when you bump the spear end.
- Feels unsafe.
- Lots of internal moving bits (though it is very well made).

Not sure how power compares to an equivalent railgun.

 

[ufc1972]

Hi Teonanacati I have the evo 70 , HF 90 and HF110.
My HF90 get used the most by far. I find the same problem with the line release not going back into place, most times it does but maybe 1 of 10 shots it has the problem. I run my guns at about 29bar. I still have a bad habit of turning the spear so that the flopper
is in the same position but make sure when I load the gun the flopper is close to where I like it and then just give it a slight turn if needed. Maybe 1 in 100 shots the gun will discharge when I do this so I don't wrap the line around the line release until I have turned
the shaft as I broke a line release previously. I have adjusted the small screw to make the trigger pressure required slightly harder.
Maybe only 1 and half turns so don't really know if it made any difference but seem to have had less misfires. I do really like the light trigger though.
With the misfires maybe the line release not going back to the correct position is making the trigger not full reset which is making the problem. The power reducer is really good and quick to use and when I shoot on the lower power setting the gun is very quiet.

 

[popgun pete]

Pushing a hard object with your loaded gun's spear tip should not make the gun shoot. This is how (see diagram) the trigger mechanism in a Mares rear handle pneumatic gun works, at least for all the previous models. If the adjustment screw is wound up too far then it tips the sear lever forwards and that angles the sear tooth which makes it less likely to hold the piston tail. There should always be a clearance between the top of the trigger transmission pin and the base of the rear end of the sear lever. The adjustment capacity is there to minimize the gap, not eliminate it completely.

 

[Teonanacatl]

You're correct and I tried on land with it on reduced power, with and without the safety on and with and without pressure on the line release and it didnt fire. It reliably goes off 1-2 times/ dive when underwater so Im not sure whats going on. I might try underwater some more. As far as Id understood I had made the trigger as insensitive as possible.

Honestly if this problem were to go away I would look a lot more favourably at this gun.

 

[popgun pete]

If the gun shoots without pulling the trigger then take it back for examination under Mares warranty, that is not how the gun is meant to work. I have used and serviced Mares pneumatic spearguns, so this is not idle speculation. The new position line release may be the culprit, if it is then possibly a very similar situation to what happened with the early Sporasub "One Air". The line release is now coupled to trigger movement from above, not below as it was before when it worked off the trigger's lower tip.

 

[popgun pete]

Does anyone have an exploded parts diagram for the "Cyrano Evo"? These days Mares do not supply them with the gun as they used to do in the past by placing them in the user manual, but Mares must have one for the dealer network or repair workshops to consult. It took a while for the "Cyrano" and "Sten 2001" diagrams to appear on the Web, hopefully someone will post one in the near future.

 

[Gazz]

Hi Teonanacatl,

A speargun that missfires is completely unacceptable, please notify mares and return the thing before you hurt yourself or a dive buddy.

I have many pneumatic spearguns and use them always. I use them to push things, I bang the barrel to attract fish and i always rotate the flopper and i have NEVER had a miss-fire.

The only miss-fireing gun i have ever had was a green handled Rob Allen and i returned it pronto.

Consider a Salvimar Vuoto air 100.

 

[Teonanacatl]

Thanks guys, I will contact the people I bought it from.

 

[popgun pete]

Thanks guys, I will contact the people I bought it from.

Please let us know what you find out as there will be many here who will be interested in the outcome.

 

[miraculix]

Does anyone have an exploded parts diagram for the "Cyrano Evo"?

Here you go
http://www.filedropper.com/despiecessporaspearfishing2006

 

[miraculix]

Better take the attached file!

 

[popgun pete]

That is the diagram for the previous "Cyrano", not the "Evo" version.

 

[povlsen]

Same problem here with regards to the line release not clicking back (90 cm version) In my case I have to click in back manually every bloody time. It seems like Mares need to take the model back to the drawing table and come up with something better!

 

[popgun pete]

The problem is side-mounted line releases that are located on the gun body in band guns work off the sear lever's movement, not the trigger's. You cannot do that in a pneumatic gun because the sear lever is enclosed inside the gun's pressure vessel, hence they have to work off the trigger instead as both are located outside the pressure vessel. If the trigger blocks the line wrapped release arm from moving forwards with the gun cocked to shoot, then when the line release arm does swing forwards it must in turn block the trigger from returning to the cocked position unless it too returns to its pre-shooting position. That result is going to be achieved either with a biasing spring on the line release arm returning the swinging arm immediately before you stop pulling on the trigger or you need to swing the outer end of the line release arm rearwards manually to let the trigger retract if the hidden inner end of the arm is still holding the trigger slightly depressed after the shot.

My advice is to adopt a routine where after the shot and after you have secured the fish that you apply the safety as pneumatic spearguns don't require the safety to be "off" for the sear lever to reset as the piston's mushroom tail pushes back past the sear tooth or catch hook. The safety will not properly engage until the trigger has moved fully back to its pre-shooting position, hence that is your check on the line release lever being properly reset if you are not actually looking down at it. As I line wrap my pneumatic guns with the safety "on" this routine ensures that is the actual situation when the gun is cocked at the completion of muzzle loading. Once line wrapping on the gun is finished the safety is then moved to "off" as I only use the safety for line wrapping, otherwise I keep my finger off the trigger or am ready for the gun to shoot at any time. Hence once cocked the gun is "armed and dangerous" and I don't use the safety, nor do I put my trust in it even when doing the line wraps, but it is better than having nothing there at all.

 

[tromic]

I wrote about that problem and solution:
https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/mares-cyrano-evo-hf-problems.102194/#post-939090

 

[popgun pete]

Not an exploded parts drawing and not that clear on the line release lever's interaction with the trigger, but this schematic provides more info.

 

[popgun pete]

The diagram is only a schematic, but my first impression is that the sear lever is tilted forwards and, after the shot as shown here, the sear lever should be more horizontal. The safety is behind the trigger and is "on", the shapes where the back of the trigger and the safety cam interact look more complicated than usual with "vee" shaped notches where the parts either block or allow movement of the trigger, but the trigger cannot move the safety cam, which is what you want.

Now if this diagram is accurate then the mushroom head on the piston tail would be barely hooked on the sear tooth except for the fact that the sear tooth is angled back, but is it in reality? Usually the sear tooth load bearing face is perpendicular to the lever that it sits on so that it forms a right angle with the lever and the mushroom head tail after latching on the tooth can be pushed back a little further and open a small gap on the tooth without the mushroom head pushing the lever down at the front end. But if the lever is at an angle, as shown here, then the back edge of the mushroom head can slightly unhook the lever because it is moving against a slight ramp and when it jerks forwards it can knock the sear tooth out of the way. Either the trigger transmission pin is too long or the sensitivity adjustment is all used up and is tilting the sear lever too far forwards. In this situation the gun will shoot with little movement of the trigger and maybe not enough for the forward arm on the trigger to clear the line release lever and allow the lever to move, in which case the rapidly departing shooting line will break the lever.

This would suggest that the trigger transmission pin is too long if this is how the sear lever actually sits in the "Cyrano Evo" after the shot and the safety is "on", particularly if the sear tooth is at the usual right angle to the sear lever on a Mares pneumatic gun. If the trigger movement required for sear lever release of the piston tail is too small then you don't get clearance opening up on the line release lever happening soon enough. What should happen is the line release lever should release first and only then should the gun shoot. To be safe you need a longer trigger pull, the first part clears the line release lever and then the trigger transmission pin starts lifting the tail of the sear lever. When the sear lever tail is lifting and the line release lever has yet to clear the forward arm of the trigger you will always have synchronization problems with the release actions.

 

[popgun pete]

These instructions contain some info on the "Cyrano Evo": http://www.infol.it/maremossoftp/Manuale_FuciliAria_HIGH.pdf

 

[popgun pete]

Well this is interesting. I took the diagram out of the above pdf document which shows the "Cyrano Evo" from the right hand side, it is the same as the previous drawing except that here the safety is "off" rather than "on". This being a black and white image I could cut and copy the piston back onto the sear tooth as if the gun was cocked to shoot. Now the piston mushroom head fits on the sear lever as is without me "rotating" the lever, hence this means that the sear lever is tilted when the gun is cocked to shoot and that, if the drawing is accurate, is because of the large dome headed piston tail with the thick shank.

Contrast this with the piston tail on a "Cyrano" which has a short spigot on the rear of a cone shape facing towards the rear rather than a dome shape. The purpose of the spigot is that it hits high up on the sear lever near the pivot pin axis before the cone can lean on the sear lever and push it down at the front if you over push the piston back. When the "Cyrano Evo" piston is pushed further back the edge of the dome can push the sear lever down by acting at a contact point below the axis of the sear pivot pin and thus slightly depress the sear tooth.

 

[popgun pete]

Well I have been trying to think if there was some downside to having the sear lever sit at an inclined angle instead of horizontal as it usually is when a pneumatic gun is cocked, assuming that the sear tooth contact face starts off as being vertical in each case. The travel arcs are the same, but the sear lever tail arc moves up to be more vertical and the sear tooth arc moves down to be less vertical when the sear lever is initially sitting at an angle to the horizontal. The attached diagram shows the respective sear levers both in the cocked position and the dark green triangles on the right hand side show the travel arcs for the sear tooth top to swing down to be where the base of the tooth is and thus clear the rim of the mushroom head, if indeed the rim of the mushroom head reaches down that far as it may not, in which case a clearance could be obtained earlier. Looking at the diagram there seems to be nothing in it and if anything better use is made of the vertical movement of the trigger transmission pin on the sear lever tail as it more closely approaches a tangent to the red travel circle based on where the transmission pin first touches the underside of the lever.

Now the only other thing to consider is at what position can the piston tail push the sear tooth out of the way and my thoughts are that as the travel arc for the releasing action is moved downwards at the front end then the sear tooth contact face moves away from the vertical earlier and the mushroom tail can then more easily push the sear tooth aside. If that is the case then the delay incurred between initial movement of the trigger and the piston escaping from the sear lever is reduced and that makes the timing more critical between the trigger freeing a line release lever and the departing spear applying tension via the shooting line to the line release lever. Remember that the sear tooth simply acts as a hook, there is no locking action on what is essentially a single-piece trigger.

Of course this line of reasoning means nothing if the diagrams show a difference which in reality is not there, so I hope others can comment on this aspect.