better living through smoothness
but I have :girlie help. And then the shaft gets polished.
Speed through the water don't ya know.
but I have :girlie help. And then the shaft gets polished.
Speed through the water don't ya know.
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Mid handled wooden guns
- Thread starterAlison
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Hi Alison,
Considering your wrist problem, limited vis, fish. I would recommend the Esclapez w/ adjustable handle. I have 2 of the old style 110's and a new style 75cm. All work like a charm. For your conditions the 75 or 60 should do well. It sounds a lot like our inshore conditions. You can load which ever band size thats more comfortable for you to load 14mm-16mm. W/ the lighter 6.5mm shaft you will be able to get plenty of shaft speed w/ the smaller bands. If you have problems bending shafts on bigger fish you could go up to the 6.75mm or 7mm shafts. I shoot different types of guns, euros, riffes, Sven originals, ect. All are better in some areas and few really can do it all.
Something that may not be an option b/c of your wrist is a polespear. When the conditions get so I can't see the end of my 75cm then I break out the polespear. This can be a very efficent tool also. Hope this helps.
Jay
Considering your wrist problem, limited vis, fish. I would recommend the Esclapez w/ adjustable handle. I have 2 of the old style 110's and a new style 75cm. All work like a charm. For your conditions the 75 or 60 should do well. It sounds a lot like our inshore conditions. You can load which ever band size thats more comfortable for you to load 14mm-16mm. W/ the lighter 6.5mm shaft you will be able to get plenty of shaft speed w/ the smaller bands. If you have problems bending shafts on bigger fish you could go up to the 6.75mm or 7mm shafts. I shoot different types of guns, euros, riffes, Sven originals, ect. All are better in some areas and few really can do it all.
Something that may not be an option b/c of your wrist is a polespear. When the conditions get so I can't see the end of my 75cm then I break out the polespear. This can be a very efficent tool also. Hope this helps.
Jay
Thank you Jay
I already use an Esclapez with the adjustable handle and a 6.5mm spear, have to admitt to liking it imensely. I have changed to dyneema wishbones this summer from those articulated (?) ones, that seems to have quietened it dowm abit. Mines a 90cm which is generaly about right here but sometimes I cant see the end, so I/we need a shorter gun for this and for holes or even a not to long multi band mid handle as a good comprimise gun? I quite like the idea of your enclosed tracks, trouble is those shark fin spears cant be found here
Then its not that easy getting any gear here!
I already use an Esclapez with the adjustable handle and a 6.5mm spear, have to admitt to liking it imensely. I have changed to dyneema wishbones this summer from those articulated (?) ones, that seems to have quietened it dowm abit. Mines a 90cm which is generaly about right here but sometimes I cant see the end, so I/we need a shorter gun for this and for holes or even a not to long multi band mid handle as a good comprimise gun? I quite like the idea of your enclosed tracks, trouble is those shark fin spears cant be found here
Then its not that easy getting any gear here!
I am liking the riffe guns more. Really like Jon's short 3 band mid-handle. I notice in foto he balances gun on shoulder-is this how you take aim with riffe by looking down the shaft from above?
Is it possible to aim with eyes on same level with mid-handled gun without breaking your face? Will the same apply for MT4?
Is it possible to aim with eyes on same level with mid-handled gun without breaking your face? Will the same apply for MT4?
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Hi Euro,
Resting (pushing into actually ) on the shoulder is a stand by position not a firing position. The beauty of mid handle is that ( 127cm or shorter ), you can push it against your shoulder when searcing around for fish, this gives you a quicker to-shoot reaction time than soldier-at-arms position which is suitable for a long & big mid handle. If you ever fire a big multi band speargun from the shoulder, you will dislocate some bones, becareful.
Yes, you take aim on any guns with open muzzle ( riffe, wong and the likes ) looking down the shaft, actually the spear tip.
Unless you have very big fish, a MT3 is more than enough.
Riffe Metal Tech is a mid-handle but its butt not as much rearward like its teak mid-handle. The pistol grip sits less middle by like 2 or 3 inch, I forgot. This is why I like it, my hand is short you see. The more middle the pistol grip, the more balance you get but at the cost of that butt closer to your face....
Resting (pushing into actually ) on the shoulder is a stand by position not a firing position. The beauty of mid handle is that ( 127cm or shorter ), you can push it against your shoulder when searcing around for fish, this gives you a quicker to-shoot reaction time than soldier-at-arms position which is suitable for a long & big mid handle. If you ever fire a big multi band speargun from the shoulder, you will dislocate some bones, becareful.
Yes, you take aim on any guns with open muzzle ( riffe, wong and the likes ) looking down the shaft, actually the spear tip.
Unless you have very big fish, a MT3 is more than enough.
Riffe Metal Tech is a mid-handle but its butt not as much rearward like its teak mid-handle. The pistol grip sits less middle by like 2 or 3 inch, I forgot. This is why I like it, my hand is short you see. The more middle the pistol grip, the more balance you get but at the cost of that butt closer to your face....
Thanks Iya. "Bigness" is relative maybe 20-30kg amberjack in best of circumstances but still these come close on aspetto and can be taken with guns I have. I want Riffe for size 4-15kg fish that keep distance/depth and have been giving me problems for 15 years. Is not question of technique I avoid going deeper than 22-24m but would like to shoot fish 6-7m deeper with good penetration. Do you think MT3 is enough? Is all hypothetical because have not held MT3 or 4 only seen fotos so this is why I ask. I fish 90% aspetto and have good visibility in waters here purpose is over 6m guaranteed shots from tip of gun is MT4 too much you think? Btw have been a bit dissapointed by other wooden guns where you have to lay the dyneema into the plain notches like "egg in basket" so sharkfins of Riffe will also be big relief. Thanks again.
I can only assume Murat. Have done aspetto with friends 120 rearhandle riffe with two bands and was normal point and shoot. You think same with midhandle and 3 bands is impossible? Is this fact or opinion?
It's been awhile, but I used mid-handle guns exclusively. Back then they were the US divers line - and my nemrod pneumatic. My big USD mid handle was 48 inches long (just the gun) with three bands. It had very nasty recoil with all the bands loaded and an uncomfortable grip but was no problem to shoot one-handed. I'm sure the Riffes are much much better.
Euro,
My MT3 is not off the shelf. It is maximum rigged to the teeth. It wil shoot easy 7 meters tip to fish. It will penetrate 30kg medium soft flesh fish like Dog Tooth Tuna at this distance and enough penetration on the other side to toggle the Ice Pick.
I am using 6 x 14mm bands and 3/8" shaft, Ice Pick slip tip, teak front wing kit and teak rear wing kit, aluminum muzzle, 500 lbs cable 4 double wraps ( +-9 meters ) and a reel.
If you use 400 lbs mono, it will shoot even further. 3/8" shaft is a must for inertia keeping at long range. Riffe catalog mentioned 6.10 meter with 5/16" shaft and 3 x 14mm bands. I am on the caution side as my 500 lbs cable is thick and full of drag and 30kg is a lot of meat to punch thru. I can shoot even at 9 meters with this MT3 if the fish is small, say 5kg or less. If you are shooting downwards, there will be extra range. Just remember 1 thing important when you rigged your MT like mine. MT2 and MT3 with 6 bands will require 4 double wraps of shooting line. Twice longer than what the factory gives you.
The best is, at 6 x 14 bands, my MT3 is a 1 hand shooting gun. At 5 bands, it's recoil is only like a high power Euro.The gun is so heavy, the recoil is very decent. You can use the new PU black front wing, cheaper and works well too. Among my friends this 127cm overall length gun is very well loved...we have 7 units. 2 with black PU wing kit.
The MT4 is one meter more deadly when fully rigged but it is longer at 142cm and heavier still, a friend of mine has one.
I have a fully rigged MT5 but I seldom use it, too long at 157cm. I reserve this for 30+ meter water visibility. I just love short cannons. This is my second MT3, I lost my first one, had to surrender it to a big Doggie.
I can shoot Rainbow Runners ( small slim fish ) with 6 bands while tracking the fish with my MT3, it is that fun and easy to manuver. The downside is cost. The two wing kit alone is +- US$165 installed for front black PU and rear wing of teak.
My friend just bought MT2 rigged similiar to my custom MT3 but with black front PU wing kit. It is so small and cute at 112cm overall. This should do well for you at 6 meters tip to fish for 30kg and 7 meters for sub 10 kg jacks type of flesh. This guy can shoot even shy fish like Green Job fish with his MT0 (86 cm LOA ) with 5 bands shooting 36" x 3/8" shaft. Original shaft should be 32" long.
I am a scuba spearo not a freediver, thus long range shooting is a must. I target pelagics and they don't like being close to me.
Forget shaft that does not have sharkfin, those wishbone recess only weakens a shaft. What cut off a good shaft for less strength ?? It also means you will have to use a slide ring on such shaft....noise and longevity is a problem.
Good luck shopping....
My MT3 is not off the shelf. It is maximum rigged to the teeth. It wil shoot easy 7 meters tip to fish. It will penetrate 30kg medium soft flesh fish like Dog Tooth Tuna at this distance and enough penetration on the other side to toggle the Ice Pick.
I am using 6 x 14mm bands and 3/8" shaft, Ice Pick slip tip, teak front wing kit and teak rear wing kit, aluminum muzzle, 500 lbs cable 4 double wraps ( +-9 meters ) and a reel.
If you use 400 lbs mono, it will shoot even further. 3/8" shaft is a must for inertia keeping at long range. Riffe catalog mentioned 6.10 meter with 5/16" shaft and 3 x 14mm bands. I am on the caution side as my 500 lbs cable is thick and full of drag and 30kg is a lot of meat to punch thru. I can shoot even at 9 meters with this MT3 if the fish is small, say 5kg or less. If you are shooting downwards, there will be extra range. Just remember 1 thing important when you rigged your MT like mine. MT2 and MT3 with 6 bands will require 4 double wraps of shooting line. Twice longer than what the factory gives you.
The best is, at 6 x 14 bands, my MT3 is a 1 hand shooting gun. At 5 bands, it's recoil is only like a high power Euro.The gun is so heavy, the recoil is very decent. You can use the new PU black front wing, cheaper and works well too. Among my friends this 127cm overall length gun is very well loved...we have 7 units. 2 with black PU wing kit.
The MT4 is one meter more deadly when fully rigged but it is longer at 142cm and heavier still, a friend of mine has one.
I have a fully rigged MT5 but I seldom use it, too long at 157cm. I reserve this for 30+ meter water visibility. I just love short cannons. This is my second MT3, I lost my first one, had to surrender it to a big Doggie.
I can shoot Rainbow Runners ( small slim fish ) with 6 bands while tracking the fish with my MT3, it is that fun and easy to manuver. The downside is cost. The two wing kit alone is +- US$165 installed for front black PU and rear wing of teak.
My friend just bought MT2 rigged similiar to my custom MT3 but with black front PU wing kit. It is so small and cute at 112cm overall. This should do well for you at 6 meters tip to fish for 30kg and 7 meters for sub 10 kg jacks type of flesh. This guy can shoot even shy fish like Green Job fish with his MT0 (86 cm LOA ) with 5 bands shooting 36" x 3/8" shaft. Original shaft should be 32" long.
I am a scuba spearo not a freediver, thus long range shooting is a must. I target pelagics and they don't like being close to me.
Forget shaft that does not have sharkfin, those wishbone recess only weakens a shaft. What cut off a good shaft for less strength ?? It also means you will have to use a slide ring on such shaft....noise and longevity is a problem.
Good luck shopping....
Hi Fondu,
If Lake michigan typical water viz is 13 -15 feet and fishes stay away from you that far and they are under 15 lbs, the MT0 should do fine.
If you like a sinking gun, order MT0 without the black PU front wing kit, if you want it to float after firing, order the PU wing kit.
Order MT0 with 5/16" shaft and order extra 1 band (9/16" ), so total is four. Make the 5/16 shaft with 3 double wraps of 200 or 300 lbs mono, Riffe original, I can't remember the rating. I know the big mono is 400 lbs but MT0 doesn't get the big one.
Order 3/8" x 36" shaft. This is 4" longer than the original 32". This shaft is your power shaft. At 4 bands with this 3/8" compared to 5/16" shaft you get extra power with same 4 bands just because this heavier shaft is very efficient for this gun size.
If you want to shoot real light, order 9/32" x 34" Hawaiian shaft. Hawaiian shaft is always longer than threaded shaft because of the built in spear tip. Threaded shaft with a spearhead will be 2" longer too. This thin shaft you must limit to 3 bands.
I also have an MTO for extreme current. Those days Riffe does not have the Pu wing kit yet and mine has the mini wing kit.
I have experimented a great deal on the MT0 and what I mentioned above is the best of the result.
I was using the aluminum muzzle for 5 bands testing and now have gone back to the plastic muzzle. 4 bands is good enough, I don't hunt that particular extreme current wreck anymore. I bought this gun because my 48" rear handle teak Riffe is just too long ( can't swing and aim !! ) when the current hits 2.7 knots while I am holding on with one hand on the wreck so that I don't get swipe away.
Here is some real world action, notice that my shaft is 36" x 3/8". At 5 bands for snappers this size ( +- 7lbs ), I can shoot as far as 17 feet and the entire shaft sometime goes thru the fish. With this 3/8" shaft 3/8" and 5 bands, I need 4 double wraps of 270 lbs cable and still the shaft pulls the gun away if I miss.
If Lake michigan typical water viz is 13 -15 feet and fishes stay away from you that far and they are under 15 lbs, the MT0 should do fine.
If you like a sinking gun, order MT0 without the black PU front wing kit, if you want it to float after firing, order the PU wing kit.
Order MT0 with 5/16" shaft and order extra 1 band (9/16" ), so total is four. Make the 5/16 shaft with 3 double wraps of 200 or 300 lbs mono, Riffe original, I can't remember the rating. I know the big mono is 400 lbs but MT0 doesn't get the big one.
Order 3/8" x 36" shaft. This is 4" longer than the original 32". This shaft is your power shaft. At 4 bands with this 3/8" compared to 5/16" shaft you get extra power with same 4 bands just because this heavier shaft is very efficient for this gun size.
If you want to shoot real light, order 9/32" x 34" Hawaiian shaft. Hawaiian shaft is always longer than threaded shaft because of the built in spear tip. Threaded shaft with a spearhead will be 2" longer too. This thin shaft you must limit to 3 bands.
I also have an MTO for extreme current. Those days Riffe does not have the Pu wing kit yet and mine has the mini wing kit.
I have experimented a great deal on the MT0 and what I mentioned above is the best of the result.
I was using the aluminum muzzle for 5 bands testing and now have gone back to the plastic muzzle. 4 bands is good enough, I don't hunt that particular extreme current wreck anymore. I bought this gun because my 48" rear handle teak Riffe is just too long ( can't swing and aim !! ) when the current hits 2.7 knots while I am holding on with one hand on the wreck so that I don't get swipe away.
Here is some real world action, notice that my shaft is 36" x 3/8". At 5 bands for snappers this size ( +- 7lbs ), I can shoot as far as 17 feet and the entire shaft sometime goes thru the fish. With this 3/8" shaft 3/8" and 5 bands, I need 4 double wraps of 270 lbs cable and still the shaft pulls the gun away if I miss.
The biggest fish I fired my MT0 at.........
Since scuba, what I do sometime with my MT0 is, use it as a second gun. There is this abandoned oil rig in my place and the only rig I can go to. Active rig is out of limits. If I hunt this rig, I tie my MT0 on a small float and carry it above me as a second gun. My primary will be the rear handle 48" Standard #2. This is another reason I remove the aluminum muzzle, it is too heavy.
There are 4 areas on the rig, the 4 sides, where I have to peek between the structure and the sand. The height of the gap is only 1 feet. Sometime delicous.... ...fish hide underneath this. If I use my rear handle at this gap, I will not be able to see or aim the fish because I have to stand back a distance and the sand lumps up around this gap. Then come the use of the MT0. Since it projects only like 1 feet from my hand, I can sneek into this small gap and able to aim......... Second use will be, shoot one fish with primary gun, allow it to trash around inviting others and nail incoming with my MT0.
I also can shoot big fish with it.......below is my boat crew holding the barracuda. Look at how small this baby MT Zero is...... I just love this little baby gun.........:inlove
Since scuba, what I do sometime with my MT0 is, use it as a second gun. There is this abandoned oil rig in my place and the only rig I can go to. Active rig is out of limits. If I hunt this rig, I tie my MT0 on a small float and carry it above me as a second gun. My primary will be the rear handle 48" Standard #2. This is another reason I remove the aluminum muzzle, it is too heavy.
There are 4 areas on the rig, the 4 sides, where I have to peek between the structure and the sand. The height of the gap is only 1 feet. Sometime delicous....
...fish hide underneath this. If I use my rear handle at this gap, I will not be able to see or aim the fish because I have to stand back a distance and the sand lumps up around this gap. Then come the use of the MT0. Since it projects only like 1 feet from my hand, I can sneek into this small gap and able to aim......... Second use will be, shoot one fish with primary gun, allow it to trash around inviting others and nail incoming with my MT0.I also can shoot big fish with it.......below is my boat crew holding the barracuda. Look at how small this baby MT Zero is......
I just love this little baby gun.........:inlove
Perfect - FYI - vis is very frequently 30 or more feet in lake mich these days - This summer we even had a few 50 foot days! Looks like the 0 will do the job and still be useful if I get out to one of these oceans I keep hearing about.
ThankS! Massively informative!!
ThankS! Massively informative!!
Great posts Iya,
I have to agree with all of the info on the MT guns from Riffe. I maintain 2 MT#3 with the composite wings on the front for grouper up to 100lbs.
GTB
I have to agree with all of the info on the MT guns from Riffe. I maintain 2 MT#3 with the composite wings on the front for grouper up to 100lbs.
GTB
Goodmorning everybody
Iyadiver
Cant give you enough Karma for your info. It will be MT3 i will be getting as from your descriptions is better suited for my hunting style although will be hunting smaller fish than you describe. Still do not want it as my basic gun but a special gun I will use on dropoffs to "catch" the fish before they go down to depths that are forbidden for my personal limits. If i can ask you a few more questions guys on the wings. I see there are wings on sides that are added for recoil, but also one type wing that raises the bands and is behind the head. What exactly do they do and how is accuracy improved with its use? Also Iya should I prefer 6 x 14mm than the standard 3 bands it comes with? Will need to know these things before I go to Athens next week so I can know what to ask the Riffe dealer.
Mourat, I live in south Greece in region called Pelloponissos, and fish mainly west Pelloponissos.
Iyadiver
Cant give you enough Karma for your info. It will be MT3 i will be getting as from your descriptions is better suited for my hunting style although will be hunting smaller fish than you describe. Still do not want it as my basic gun but a special gun I will use on dropoffs to "catch" the fish before they go down to depths that are forbidden for my personal limits. If i can ask you a few more questions guys on the wings. I see there are wings on sides that are added for recoil, but also one type wing that raises the bands and is behind the head. What exactly do they do and how is accuracy improved with its use? Also Iya should I prefer 6 x 14mm than the standard 3 bands it comes with? Will need to know these things before I go to Athens next week so I can know what to ask the Riffe dealer.
Mourat, I live in south Greece in region called Pelloponissos, and fish mainly west Pelloponissos.
Just saw the barracuda Iya. Beautiful. To think that I caught a 4 kilo one about a month ago and was thinking much about it...