Need some advice guys* spare air*

[JCDenton]

Hi all

. i was wondering if this is a good piece of equipment or not , if not could you please recommend some other companys product* speaking of spare air*



[ame=http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Scuba-Diving-Diver-Spare-Air-6-cu-pony-tank-NITROX_W0QQitemZ290105030826QQihZ019QQcategoryZ16057QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem]eBay: New Scuba Diving Diver Spare Air 6 cu pony tank NITROX! (item 290105030826 end time Apr-20-07 16:26:29 PDT)[/ame]

Thank you for bothering to read


JC Denton

 

[trux]

Enter SpareAir into the search box above in the menu - this was discussed here many times. For eample in these threads (but there are more of them in the archive):

http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/43222-what-can-spareair-do-freedivers.html?highlight=spareair
http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/36406-spare-air-anyone.html?highlight=spareair
http://forums.deeperblue.net/general-scuba/62213-mini-tanks.html?highlight=spareair

 

[JCDenton]

trux all the topics about spare air were about if it is a good or bad thing well, i don\t need advice on that, cause i am positive that i want myself one going to use it in pool for fun. I was asking which of them are quality products and whitch not i was considering to order the one form ebay , added link on my first post in this topic

 

[ant]

Just make sure that you always breathe or you blow bubbles if you doing any kind of apnea after taking a breath at depth. This is a basic skill you learn when you are taking any scuba classes to help you avoid lung overexpansion injuries.

I don't know if you are familiar with this issue so if you need more insight on it let me know.

Anton

 

[JCDenton]

Thanks man , i am doing my rescue diver currently so i am aware of the basic things

Actually i need it because the pool house were i pratice dynamic apne has very bad air , so i just need some fresh air while doing my apne exercises.

 

[trux]

Actually i need it because the pool house were i pratice dynamic apne has very bad air , so i just need some fresh air while doing my apne exercises.

Are you aware that the bottle does not hold more air than for just a very few deep breaths? Depending on the model, the bottle contains 30-100 liters of air (and not all of it is usable). That may be good for some 5 - 20 deep breaths, so if you plan it for using it during an hour of a training session for your breath-up, you'd rather need a standard 10 liter (or bigger) bottle. Besides it breathing through a regulator demands always little bit more effort than breathing directly plain air, so personally I would not really try doing it when training in a pool. Well, that told, I am curious about your experience, so once you try it let us know.

The most known are probably bottles from Spare-Air

 

[JCDenton]

Are you aware that the bottle does not hold more air than for just a very few deep breaths? Depending on the model, the bottle contains 30-100 liters of air (and not all of it is usable). That may be good for some 5 - 20 deep breaths, so if you plan it for using it during an hour of a training session for your breath-up, you'd rather need a standard 10 liter (or bigger) bottle. Besides it breathing through a regulator demands always little bit more effort than breathing directly plain air, so personally I would not really try doing it when training in a pool. Well, that told, I am curious about your experience, so once you try it let us know.

The most known are probably bottles from Spare-Air

If you took a look at that link i gave than you saw that this one contains double amount of air compareing to the older versions of spare air tanks. it is 6 cubic feet of air .

Also they say you can fill it with nitrox...





I will let you know when i have tried it out

 

[Jon]

Ok, I just have to ask, "What the hell are you trying to do?"

I have a spare air and use it when freediving with my scooter, in case it floods when I'm down 100' and I only need a single breath to make it back to the surface.

For scuba diving it's worthless below about 30'. I know underwater photographers who use them down in the islands to solo dive, and shoot pictures, in 30' of water. They aren't that deep, and no where near a deco situation, so the small amount of air it provides is enough to keep the DM's off their backs.

For anything deeper, or longer, you need to sling a bottle- 40cft. works out pretty nicely. Some divers strap them to their main tanks and call them "pony bottles" but I would rather sling mine, like a stage bottle, so that it's more useful and can be removed and given to a buddy if needed.

The nitrox part is a joke, and proves that you haven't taken a nitrox class yet because you would know this if you had. You can throw up to 40% nitrox into any tank- as long as your not mixing that gas, through P.P. blending, IN the tank. Many places who pump nitrox, including any boat/shop that I have worked at, will use a "stick" for their large scale "recreational" mixes and go to P.P. for technical mixes and trimix fills. With the "stick" you can use any tank- as long as you don't go above 40%. You don't need to spend extra for a bottle that has this sticker on it.

It sounds like you need a pool with a better air filter, not a mini tank of gas. You also wouldn't want to be doing your breath-up on nitrox for dynamic training to begin with- and there are many threads on here that go into that in much greater detail.

So, please tell us what you REALLY want to use this thing for and what kind of problems your having that makes you think this will help.

Jon

 

[riverdiver]

a waste of money, why not buy a 13 or 19 cu. pony bottle for 119.00 and a cheap reg.under a $100.00. Lisa from 123scuba.com has a nice reg. for 60.00 first stage and 60.00 for a 2nd stage new. Every time I see a spare air I have to laugh at the sucker for buying one. How deep and how far are you going to go with that. And you are going to ease your mind that if you have trouble it might save your life, no way it may leak 2 to 4 cu. during the dive. And resale , you will never get a quarter of your money back, always can sell a pony and a reg.

Ed

 

[colt.45]

can I have your stuff when you die?

 

[JCDenton]

Ok, I just have to ask, "What the hell are you trying to do?"

I have a spare air and use it when freediving with my scooter, in case it floods when I'm down 100' and I only need a single breath to make it back to the surface.

For scuba diving it's worthless below about 30'. I know underwater photographers who use them down in the islands to solo dive, and shoot pictures, in 30' of water. They aren't that deep, and no where near a deco situation, so the small amount of air it provides is enough to keep the DM's off their backs.

For anything deeper, or longer, you need to sling a bottle- 40cft. works out pretty nicely. Some divers strap them to their main tanks and call them "pony bottles" but I would rather sling mine, like a stage bottle, so that it's more useful and can be removed and given to a buddy if needed.

The nitrox part is a joke, and proves that you haven't taken a nitrox class yet because you would know this if you had. You can throw up to 40% nitrox into any tank- as long as your not mixing that gas, through P.P. blending, IN the tank. Many places who pump nitrox, including any boat/shop that I have worked at, will use a "stick" for their large scale "recreational" mixes and go to P.P. for technical mixes and trimix fills. With the "stick" you can use any tank- as long as you don't go above 40%. You don't need to spend extra for a bottle that has this sticker on it.

It sounds like you need a pool with a better air filter, not a mini tank of gas. You also wouldn't want to be doing your breath-up on nitrox for dynamic training to begin with- and there are many threads on here that go into that in much greater detail.

So, please tell us what you REALLY want to use this thing for and what kind of problems your having that makes you think this will help.

Jon

Hey man what is wong with you?? i am well awere that nitrox tanks are different only because usually nitrox is written on it and you can fill any tank with nitrox if you want. Just when they sold it they stated that maybe you would like to fill it with nitrox instead.


I am actaully very sorry for making this thread, not a singe answer to my original question only stuff like , hey dude wtf is wonrg with you, this is pointless and you have taken any classes at all......

 

[JCDenton]

a waste of money, why not buy a 13 or 19 cu. pony bottle for 119.00 and a cheap reg.under a $100.00. Lisa from 123scuba.com has a nice reg. for 60.00 first stage and 60.00 for a 2nd stage new. Every time I see a spare air I have to laugh at the sucker for buying one. How deep and how far are you going to go with that. And you are going to ease your mind that if you have trouble it might save your life, no way it may leak 2 to 4 cu. during the dive. And resale , you will never get a quarter of your money back, always can sell a pony and a reg.

Ed

Maybe it is usless..... but i will definately try it our myself.* ]


Also thanks for information, pany bottle might be another solution.

 

[JCDenton]

Also i am not harsh at all just. Here are some smileys to prove that

 

[trux]

There was no bad intent on our side, we were just trying to spare you of spending unnecessary $300 (+the daily filling fees) + the discomfort of swimming with the tank (whatever small it is) and possible risks of "unnatural" breathing when freediving. For that price you can possibly find a more expensive pool with better quality of air, or drive a few miles farther.

Also, when training with the tank, be sure to have a good buddy permanently surveying you, and knowing how to handle LMC, blackouts and barotrauma. The buddy should be always watching you even when not diving with pressurized air, but in such case the risk of LMC and blackout is simply higher due to more variables and less control in breathing up.

Also, it is a wise precaution to check out where the closest deco-chamber is - although as a scuba diver, you are well aware of the risks of breathing pressurized air, an accident can still happen easily when it is combined with breath-holding - a small distraction, stress, loss of focus, reduced judgment due to hypoxia can easily cause that you forget exhaling or cannot open the epiglottis due to a light samba when surfacing. Getting to the specialist fast may be crucial in such case, so be sure to instruct your buddy how to drive there.

Personally I think that combining tanks and freediving is not wise, is impractical, uncomfortable, dangerous, erasing the "free" from freediving, and simply makes no sense, but if you are decided to buy the tank anyway, let us know about your experience, and whether it is usable at all.

 

[Jon]

I'm still trying to figure out what your original question was????

In case you missed it in my post I actually OWN one and it does have some, very, specific uses- like as a bailout when freediving with a scooter on shipwrecks.

For just about anything else it's worthless, as stated by many others on here.

As far as durability goes, if that was your only question, mine has lasted just fine over the past 8 years that I've owned it. It's not as rugged as a standard reg and pony/stage bottle set up, but's rugged enough.

Jon

 

[ScubaBilly]

JCDENTON...There seems to be a lot of controversy out there on the usefulness of EAS or pony bottles. And since I'm new again to scuba I don't mind acting stupid and asking a dumb question, so here goes. As far as scuba goes, what is wrong with having a totally separate alternate air source over and above an octo or integrated air supply? It sounds like good insurance as long as it isn't used to "extend" the safety limits.

JON...I would like to take a nitrox course in the near future so enlighten me on your terminology so I don't walk in totally stupid. (A little stupidity I can handle.) What do you mean by "stick"? Short for sticker? Skinny bottle? Attitude adjuster? What? Also what is P.P.? Partial pressures?

My take on an EAS or pony is like a cop taking a backup gun...he ain't gonna do anything more dangerous because he has it but wants to know he does have it just in case circumstances beyond his control get the best of him. (I am a retired cop.)

Thanks, guys and gals.

 

[riverdiver]

A stick is a mixing stick like 2" PVC that is used when mixing nitrox, 100% oxygen and air from the compressor run through it and it has offset rings or alu. spacers to mix better, the 100% oxygen is run in the compressor through the air intake. All of people have blown up their compressors this way, but you get more fills out of your T bottles,(big tanksfrom weilding shops or oxygen supplers). I own a Mako compressor with a cascade system and several fill whips, I Partail pressure, this is how I fill my tanks. Lets say for a 32% I put in 491 PST of 02 and disconect the 02 fill whip and hook up fill whip to compressor and fill it to 3500 PSI. 1 T-bottle cost $ 30.00 and I will get almost 36 fills of 36%. So I am around a buck a fill. The problem with P.P fills you take tha tanks back with 100-200PSI of gas left in the tanks where as continuous blending with a nitrox stick you drain the tank all the way down.
(Pony bottle) I live near the St.Clair river in Mi. and 85% of my diving is their. The river current run 6 mph and we have large ship traffic, all dives are extrem dives. We run 100 cu and 120 cu tanks and everyone has a pony bottle. I have used mine several times over if not for sending a lift back to the top with a artifact that I have found. 3 weeks ago I had a freeflow the water temp. was 36* I made it back to shore useing my freeflowing reg but I knew that I had my pony for back up. I all so am on the sheriff dive team and everyone on the team has to have a pony on them at all times. I feel naked if I get in the water and forget to put it on , will limit my diving without out it.
Also I know don't know anyone that dives with a octo or snorkel,by the time you buy a octo you could have almost bought a reg.

hope this helps Ed

 

[JCDenton]

JCDENTON...There seems to be a lot of controversy out there on the usefulness of EAS or pony bottles. And since I'm new again to scuba I don't mind acting stupid and asking a dumb question, so here goes. As far as scuba goes, what is wrong with having a totally separate alternate air source over and above an octo or integrated air supply? It sounds like good insurance as long as it isn't used to "extend" the safety limits.

JON...I would like to take a nitrox course in the near future so enlighten me on your terminology so I don't walk in totally stupid. (A little stupidity I can handle.) What do you mean by "stick"? Short for sticker? Skinny bottle? Attitude adjuster? What? Also what is P.P.? Partial pressures?

My take on an EAS or pony is like a cop taking a backup gun...he ain't gonna do anything more dangerous because he has it but wants to know he does have it just in case circumstances beyond his control get the best of him. (I am a retired cop.)

Thanks, guys and gals.

Hey man,

you will definately get your aswers, but maybe it might be a good idea to start your own thread , then you will get more atention


Just a suggestion though

 

[JCDenton]

There was no bad intent on our side, we were just trying to spare you of spending unnecessary $300 (+the daily filling fees) + the discomfort of swimming with the tank (whatever small it is) and possible risks of "unnatural" breathing when freediving. For that price you can possibly find a more expensive pool with better quality of air, or drive a few miles farther.

Also, when training with the tank, be sure to have a good buddy permanently surveying you, and knowing how to handle LMC, blackouts and barotrauma. The buddy should be always watching you even when not diving with pressurized air, but in such case the risk of LMC and blackout is simply higher due to more variables and less control in breathing up.

Also, it is a wise precaution to check out where the closest deco-chamber is - although as a scuba diver, you are well aware of the risks of breathing pressurized air, an accident can still happen easily when it is combined with breath-holding - a small distraction, stress, loss of focus, reduced judgment due to hypoxia can easily cause that you forget exhaling or cannot open the epiglottis due to a light samba when surfacing. Getting to the specialist fast may be crucial in such case, so be sure to instruct your buddy how to drive there.

Personally I think that combining tanks and freediving is not wise, is impractical, uncomfortable, dangerous, erasing the "free" from freediving, and simply makes no sense, but if you are decided to buy the tank anyway, let us know about your experience, and whether it is usable at all.

Yes i know that there was no bad intent and i have very high respect towards all of you. Just i was really suprised taht it seemd ppl were rather pissad at all that spare air and stuff.lol


It might be a waste of money, but for some reason i have wanted one since i was like 12 and now i am 22 , and i still would like to check out if it could help me out with different things, but it seens that pony bottel is a better idea.


Anyway i will try it out and let you know.


Thank you for all the suggestions and attention

 

[JCDenton]

I'm still trying to figure out what your original question was????

In case you missed it in my post I actually OWN one and it does have some, very, specific uses- like as a bailout when freediving with a scooter on shipwrecks.

For just about anything else it's worthless, as stated by many others on here.

As far as durability goes, if that was your only question, mine has lasted just fine over the past 8 years that I've owned it. It's not as rugged as a standard reg and pony/stage bottle set up, but's rugged enough.

Jon

The original question was if the spare air i was planning to buy was a quality product or not. I mean there are many of them on the market and some of them might be better than others.

It seemd resonable to me cause it was 6 cubic feet compareing to older versions with only 3 cubic metre of air.


here is the link....



[ame="http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Scuba-Diving-Diver-Spare-Air-6-cu-pony-tank-NITROX_W0QQitemZ290107748658QQihZ019QQcategoryZ16057QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]eBay: New Scuba Diving Diver Spare Air 6 cu pony tank NITROX! (item 290107748658 end time Apr-27-07 16:56:24 PDT)[/ame]

IF you read that text that is included. then you will see that they say , something like that , i wonder if it is bullshit:


The six-cubic-foot EAS was the only bailout bottle we tested that was able to get us from 132 feet (maximum recommended recreational diving depth) to the surface, and it did so with more than a dozen additional surface breaths to spare."

Also i am not going to use it for anything that might but my health to danger.



I read before that you find one useful, seems a good reason to me.

8 years well that seems to be a quality product. Is yours 3 cubic feet or more?


And thak you for your time and knowloedge Jon