New FreeDiver In Training

[Morg]

Hello all,

You guys have taught me alot recently. I have used my knowledge to form a guideline but I am still confused about a few things.

My training is usually done at night when I am at a nice rest time. Usually around 11:00 and I have seen major results.

I have loged all of my breath holds and they have increased greatly.

However I am still very confused about hyperventation... To me that means to breathe rapidly before the final breath. I have not been using that techique, I have been taking slow deep breathes.

I have been loging my results and here they are... I have only done 3 nights of it and seen great results.

1st Day:
43 First Attempt
1:11 Second
1:35 Third

2nd Day:
98 First
1:39 Second
2:00 Third

3rd Day:
1:24 First
2:22 Second
3:00 Third

I have a few questions about my training... I notice that once I reach the usually 1:50 second mark I get these convulsions in my chest. I notice that I really need to breathe but I know if I get over that 'hump' it will get better. Is that normal and safe?

Also I notice when I hit my 2:20-3:00 mark I start to really sweat. Not alot I just notice that I get really warm and I have very little sweat.

I am in fairly good shape. I am 6'2 170-175 lbs. Today I was also concerning myself and allow myself 4 hours of not eating before I do a breathe hold. I read that today and said its best to do it on an emtpy stomache because the stomache requires alot of blood to digest.

When I train it is out of the water and I would definatly need to work on the mental issue of actually being in the water and doing this. Once I get a chance to get into the water I know well enough to have someone watching me. Thankfully I have a younger sister and a older brother that are interested in Freediving as well ... Guess who holds the best breathe hold so far at 3:00 hahah....

Thanks guys,
Morg

 

[JPPLAY]

I have a few questions about my training... I notice that once I reach the usually 1:50 second mark I get these convulsions in my chest. I notice that I really need to breathe but I know if I get over that 'hump' it will get better. Is that normal and safe?

We call those contractions. Most people get them. They are normal but you can go rather far if you can stand them. Top breath holders can take over 70+ of them. It really a mental hurdle you face with them and you will learn to deal with them. It also a sign that tells your body when it needs to breath. See how many you can take. Also do five attempts, as I am sure you have at least a 4:00 in you. The fifth attempt should be your best time most likely. After that your times may go down but it different for everyone. Are you plugging your nose close when doing these attempts?

 

[XyseR]

"I get really warm and I have very little sweat" yeah.. after 3 minutes my body and face gets super warm and it's crazy! it's kind of funny cuzz i don't need a stop watch to tell me how long i've been holding my breath. the first time i had contrations i was like whoa~~~~ before that i used to breath in and out with the air i had stored and i belive that stoped contrations but used more air.. i find that static is very intresting and really is a crazy mind game. it's like some days 2 minutes seem like nothing the other days 2 minutes seen like hell. once you get past 2:20-3:00 mark does holding your breath seem easier? for me it does and it doesn't seem like contrations are really there.. i just get used to it..


JPPLAY when you said top holders cantake like 70+ contrations.. does that mean normal people can not handle contrations that much? 'cause whenever i hold my brath i'm sure i go past 70 at least whenever i get past 4 minutes...i'm trying to get my contrations down a bit.. or start later which they have! when i started i felt my contrations at 1:00 but now they're starting at like 1:30!!

 

[Morg]

Are you plugging your nose close when doing these attempts?

Yes I am taking my hand and covering my entire mouth and pinching my nose with my thumb and index. Should I just be holding my nose and let my mouth be?

 

[JPPLAY]

JPPLAY when you said top holders cantake like 70+ contrations.. does that mean normal people can not handle contrations that much? 'cause whenever i hold my brath i'm sure i go past 70 at least whenever i get past 4 minutes...i'm trying to get my contrations down a bit.. or start later which they have! when i started i felt my contrations at 1:00 but now they're starting at like 1:30!!

Sounds like you get contractions rather early. Count your contractions on your next practice and send me a private message. It may be that you have good self control so nothing bad about being able to hold that many contractions.

 

[Morg]

Well I decided to ease up on the training so far....

I live in the north and I haven't even tested out my abilities in the water yet. I have reached a nice peak at least and I plan on revising a time to keep up with it. My PB is 3:45

I don't plan on stopping but I am not going to be doing it every night. I will do it either every other night or once a week. I still have a good 3-4 months before the water is even swimmable.. :rcard

 

[Morg]

Hi again,

I have a new question.....

When I took a break from holding my breath it was for about 1-2 days... Well before that I was noticing that when I would take my final breath I wouldn't have enough strength or get enough air into my lungs to fill to capacity.

When I came back to it last night I noticed that filling up my lungs to max was ALOT easier.

Now I have a lot of factors in here that may have lead to that...

I was working out my abs with an exercise ball (Not right afterwards but I did exercise and do breath holding in the same night). I wonder if thats what caused it or if my lungs were just tired and needed a rest?

Any ideas?..... It may have been sinuses as well. I remember someone saying something about a bowel and putting a towel over your head. What do you put in the bowel to help your sinuses?

 

[lungfish]

Hi Morg,

Doing statics after a workout doesn't seem to go well..... probably lactic buildup and and inability to ventilate effectively because of the load on your muscles. I try to do my static tables at times other than my physical workouts....If I work out w/weights four days, run or bag train 6days, then I do statics on the mornings after weight training days, before I do cardio.

A couple thoughts about training for freediving that might be helpful.

1) Freediving is about relaxation. You can't "jack up" for freediving and be good at it. I often am faced with a serious mental struggle when I get in the water and I am feeling anxious and excited. Nothing good happens until I calm way down.....Don't worry about "psyching up" courage to swim deep. Simply preparing, being calm, enjoying what you are doing and having backup divers with you will make deep swims anything but intimidating. I could tell you about joining dolphin pods at 75ft......

2) when training for freediving there are several things you can do that will make it all easier and you will transit into the altered state known as "mammalian diving reflex" very comfortably. A) Work on interval training. You can do it running or swimming or whatever.... I use a punching bag and do 17X3min rounds - 2minutes working the bag, 1 minute rest. When I want to stress myself a little I increase the duration and decrease the rest window. However you do cardio/intervals, do it very often. b)examine meditative disciplines like yoga and martial arts for their calming influence. c)start doing static tables at the easiest level.

3) do your static tables twice a week. O2 on day one, Co2 on day three.... start easy. If you simply do the first four weeks of tables without even stressing yourself, you will see much longer duration swims that are very comfortable and quite satisfying.

4) make a scientific study of the "breath-up" process. How long should you stay on the surface and what should you be doing between dives before you dive again? How long should you wait between dives above 25meters vs dives below 25meters and why? Work on those two questions.....

5) go take a course from Performance Freediving. In four days they can get you well down the road to freediving, safely. Many newbies who attend reach depths of up to 100ft with some good coaching. You learn all the basic rescue methods, learn how to breath up carefully. Learn how to purge, pack and peak inhale....learn how to calibrate weights and bouyancy..... learn shallow and deep water physiology, www.performancefreediving.com

5) keep on checking in with us.

Good Luck!

lungfish

 

[lungfish]

Also,

Initial ventilations for saturation are not hyperventilations. Fully Inhale for four counts, hold for three counts, exhale slowly for twelve to fifteen counts. Repeat for 40 or 50 cycles, that is how you saturate. Then comes purging, packing, peak inhale, etc....

What happens is that your heart rate slows on the exhale and rises on the inhale. Shorten the inhale time, increase the exhale, slow your heart rate so you are using less 02 then you are breathing in. Eventually it builds in blood and tissue until you are saturated and ready to purge Co2, peak inhale and dive. Then, you begin to experience bradycardia or slowing of the heartrate, you use less o2 and dive longer, more relaxed and have a great time.

Just work on that saturation cycle and forget about "hyperventilating". True hyperventilation is quite dangerous and nobody, not even Ama pearl divers do severe hyperventilation. It will kill you. Certainly nobody who is trained in proper breath-up would intentionally hyperventilate.....

The proper ventilation technique is important and you will use it on the water constantly....

 

[Akoni]

Your times improve a lot in the first few weeks/months. Probably makes you think you want to do a max attempt every time you train but try not to overtrain yourself, you don't want a static burnout, many new Freedivers lose their interest in Freediving because of that. Don't do max attempts unless you know for sure you can do a personal record, or somewhere close to one.

I myself don't use CO² of O² schedules, I use my feelings. An example of my "feelings" schedule:

I use 5 breathholds like this:

1: 50% of what I feel is my max
- time to recover (also by feeling)
2: 50% of what I feel is my max
- time to recover (also by feeling)
3: 65% of what I feel is my max
- time to recover (also by feeling)
4: 75% of what I feel is my max
- time to recover (also by feeling)
5: 85% of what I feel is my max

I really benefit from this training, it makes me really relax because there are no times to make + you still improve your breathholds every training. You could toy around with this schedule putting in timed rest periods, make em shorter after a breathhold; you get a higher CO² tolerance. If you use equally timed resting periods you should get a tolerance for low O² levels.

 

[Morg]

you don't want a static burnout, many new Freedivers lose their interest in Freediving because of that.

I have begun to notice that a little bit. What sparked my interest was the movie Into the Blue... I had never heard of Freediving until I did some more research into breath holds.

I now know my father was a freediver but I guess he didn't know it. He used to do exercises to increase his lung capacity and he taught me. I wasn't seeing many results from this but I couldn't understand how he could stay down for so long. I never knew you could go that far beyond the little 'need' to breath mark.

I have stop training so hard and have eased up on breath holds now. I am however noticing somewhat of a burn out in a strange way.

I notice that I cannot hold as much air as I used to. Also its VERY difficult to hold the breath in. I find myself bursting the air out when I don't fully commit to it. It gets annoying because I do that at around 2:00 mark. I am going to let myself rest for a few days and then give it another shot.

Can your lung muscles become weak overtime and need repairing? That's the only logical explanation I can come up with now. I have to REALLY fight myself to take in a lot of air as opposed to casually taking in LOADs.

Thanks,
Morg

 

[Akoni]

Like Lungfish said, you should try a Freediving course/clinic, the instructors there can perfect your techniques and teach you many new ones, including breathing exercises and explanations about what happens to your lungs and other organs during a breathhold or a dive.

 

[lungfish]

Hi Morg,

The reason I suggested interval training was to increase your lung capacity in general. The muscles involved in breathing are the diaphragm and intercostal muscles. You can make them tired. When I was first starting out I would spend 3-4 hours a session, twice a day, in the water breathing up and diving. And my chest and abs got tired.

Flexibility exercises where you inhale deeply and very, very gently stretch your ribcage are also useful.

Real freediving training is a point that you arrive at by learning each exercise and drill and incorporating it into your program when you are capable of doing it. So basic conditioning and statics to start. Then comes hypoxic training and in-water technique and practice. Know where you are on the learning curve.

If you don't judge this correctly you could hurt yourself and burn out or have an accident that will stop you from swimming. You want to have the confidence that you have prepared yourself when you find yourself looking up at little dots and realize they are people watching you from the surface.....

Also, understand that you are definitely new to this endeavor. Look at the people who are successful at it. They are calm, generally not outwardly aggressive folks. And the freediving today is not the freediving that your father did. The resources, science, equipment and opps are far beyond what was available then.

www.performancefreediving.com

I also suggest a search in google on these words:
mammalian diving reflex
Frenzel

Go slow, it takes time. Simply be diligent and make certain that you do it. Statics are only necessary two days a week for about a half hour a session. The rest is about physical health.

Lean muscle mass stores more 02....

 

[Morg]

Thanks lungfish for pointing out those facts and giving me research material.

I think that I would extremely enjoy freediving and I do not want to ruin that by having a accident.

I will do some small breath holds in the water and I won't push myself to the max until I learn A LOT more then what I have now. I plan on taking that course in June but until then I will look around for some Freediving books to read.

I have few other issues to sort out as well before I take on this sport very heavily. I need to work on relaxation and equalization before I see a significant results.

Thanks again,
Morg

 

[lungfish]

Hi Morg,
Thats right. Take your time, do your research. Condition yourself consistently and slowly. Talk to us, read and visualize. Sometimes I imagine myself as an astronaut in training - it helps me stay diligent and careful. Deep space or Deep blue - equally dangerous....

Where are you located? Which class are you considering?

FYI, I live in San Francisco and it is a very easy flight to Hawaii for me...... I have been thinking about renting a 3-4bedroom house there and seeing if any freedivers want to take some time to dive and explore and practice. It would be considerably cheaper than staying at a hotel or other lodging, I could keep a pot of spaghetti on the stove.....

If anyone "vibes" on this suggestion, let me know!

Lungfish

 

[Akoni]

*sigh* If I just had the money, I'd say yes right away

 

[Morg]

Hi Morg,
Thats right. Take your time, do your research. Condition yourself consistently and slowly. Talk to us, read and visualize. Sometimes I imagine myself as an astronaut in training - it helps me stay diligent and careful. Deep space or Deep blue - equally dangerous....

Where are you located? Which class are you considering?

FYI, I live in San Francisco and it is a very easy flight to Hawaii for me...... I have been thinking about renting a 3-4bedroom house there and seeing if any freedivers want to take some time to dive and explore and practice. It would be considerably cheaper than staying at a hotel or other lodging, I could keep a pot of spaghetti on the stove.....

If anyone "vibes" on this suggestion, let me know!

Lungfish

I'm from Ontario, Canada but I would love to do that. When are you considering doing this? Also how much for rent?

I have been dieing to go back to Hawaii and freedive. I went when I was 10 and could only snorkel.

The course I was thinking of taking is either the Intro or Basic PFI course offered this June in Ottawa, Ontario.

 

[lungfish]

Hi Akoni and Morg,

Sure, hard to beat the PFi course. They do also have courses in Kona, Hawaii which is where I go (one in May, I think and one next week). I really enjoyed my first freediving class with them. Got me off on the right foot.

Of course, its nice to dive in water where you can see things and they see you.....

Not sure where I would rent on the Big Island, more likely on the Hilo side, or maybe towards South Point on the Kona side. Anyway, residences run around 12-1400 a month for 3-4 bedroom. In Sept I rented a two bedroom vacation house, slept 5, for 150 per night. Either way, you come out ahead if you have a small group.

I intend to rent there as a second residence so there is no pressure beyond a low weekly rate to help with the rent when you are on island. Probably get going on this sometime in the next two months.

I am sure Akoni can tell you that the diving is great.... lotsa neat places, neat critters and a small freediving community to click with.

Still have to plan for transportation if you want independance, otherwise I'll ship a container with a car and some stuff.

I'll probably make a more formal anouncement on the forum here once I get things set up.

Don't fret, Akoni, if I get this together there will be plenty of opps. I have seen air fares roundtrip SFO to Kona for as low as $217. I usually pay around $300 but you can pay more. And I am certain that there are very low fares to SFO from most everywhere....

Lungfish

 

[Morg]

That sounds awesome.. my job here will soon be done because I'm on a contract and I will defiantly be looking around for a nice place to go and relax for a bit.

If you get a place and keep it for a while I will definitely want to check it out. I would much rather go down there during our winter times. That way I get a lot more opportunities to freedive

I would love to stay there for a month and take a course during that time.

Please keep me informed . I would be very interested in the future.

Morg

 

[Akoni]

I am sure Akoni can tell you that the diving is great.... lotsa neat places, neat critters and a small freediving community to click with.

Unfortunately not, I've never been to Hawaii, but I do know a lot about it, from what I know it's a great place to dive!