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New LG
- Thread startertromic
- Start date
Interesting new gun with bi-tapered or bi-conical ended tank, makes me think of the Omer "Skorpion", but that gun only had a taper at the front end as the rear where the tank met the grip housing was the usual parallel-sided cylinder, not a curving gradual taper running in the rear direction from the centre of the gun as well as a similar shape extending to the muzzle which we see with this one. Machining all the component parts from metal or plastic stock is an expensive way to make a gun, whereas injection moulded plastic parts are a means to reduce costs in mass production where the objective is to produce a gun that can be sold at a competitive price and still make a good profit for the manufacturer on each gun. Another gun with machined parts making up most of the gun structure is the Russian "Taimen" which makes that gun relatively expensive to buy, although a long production run has made it cheaper than it could have been without churning out thousands of them, if not more.
The longer stroke or working course of the piston for the gun length is also interesting, this is stated as being due to the compact trigger mechanism design and a short piston that takes away less travel length from the inner barrel tube. No details beyond the fact that it has a stainless steel sear tooth, so it is a mechanical release rather than a valve-operated gun. One of the photos shows that the sear tooth must be further back in the gun, usually the sear tooth is slightly forwards of the trigger pivot pin (see inset) with a "see-saw" or rocker type sear lever, but here the trigger looks distinctly different as there is no pivot pin directly above where your finger pulls on the trigger. The metal rear housing will add to the weight at the rear as in modern pneumatic guns that section is moulded plastic, so I wonder how well the LG gun floats without the spear, maybe butt down unless the separate plastic rear handle has a buoyancy element to compensate for the weight of the rear metal parts.
The longer stroke or working course of the piston for the gun length is also interesting, this is stated as being due to the compact trigger mechanism design and a short piston that takes away less travel length from the inner barrel tube. No details beyond the fact that it has a stainless steel sear tooth, so it is a mechanical release rather than a valve-operated gun. One of the photos shows that the sear tooth must be further back in the gun, usually the sear tooth is slightly forwards of the trigger pivot pin (see inset) with a "see-saw" or rocker type sear lever, but here the trigger looks distinctly different as there is no pivot pin directly above where your finger pulls on the trigger. The metal rear housing will add to the weight at the rear as in modern pneumatic guns that section is moulded plastic, so I wonder how well the LG gun floats without the spear, maybe butt down unless the separate plastic rear handle has a buoyancy element to compensate for the weight of the rear metal parts.
The photos of the new gun are very good. The trigger pivot location is set back inside the handle frame and the piece that you squeeze with your trigger finger is a forward projection mounted on the front of the white trigger piece which is shown upside down in all these disassembly photos. The trigger pivot pin actually mounts in the rear metal section as you can see the hole for it, the other two holes at either end secure the plastic handle with transverse mounting pins.
A precision machining job to generate that rear metal section as besides the various holes, recesses and slots the line release pivot pin is drilled at an angle from the vertical so that the line release finger protrudes upwards at an angle from the right hand side of the gun body. No photo of the sear lever at this stage, but I guess that it is a rocking lever type judging by the mushroom tail on the piston. There is an adjustment screw as usual mounted on the rear of the white trigger in the form of a bolt, but it may not need adjusting and just provides a hard surface to push a transmission pin with.
May be expensive to buy with machined metal parts substituting for plastic parts as they take longer to produce compared with closing and opening an injection moulding die and ejecting each new component after it cools sufficiently.
Hey Pete, read a lot of your posts about air guns and am looking at importing a LG Sub Manilu 117 into Australia. The toss up is between this and an EVO hf. I spear the islands of the Queensland coast(Australia) and have Cyranos, Asso's and several quality rubber guns but just love the look of quality with these LG's. I don't hit fish for trophy/sport and generally hunt only Coral Trout and other premium eating species where accuracy is critical to flesh quality. Given that the cost will be 3 times the others (all great gear) do you have any recent info on or opinions of their value for money (ok I just love expensive toy's). I almost exclusively dive with the one gun and develop an intuitive aim over time which just hits the spot. Any comments would be greatly appreciated given your obvious interest and expertise in this filed of the our beloved sport.
If you want to buy something out of the ordinary then you need to look into the spare parts that may be required. Also parts that could be broken need to be considered as guns can be damaged by the thoughtless handling of others, like something being dropped on it while you are out on the boat. The LG pneumatic speargun appears to be an exercise in something different, so not much will be interchangeable with anything else, although maybe the piston could be replaced depending on its size. I have not followed up on the LG gun since it was first announced, so have no idea of its practical utility above and beyond anything else. With "orphan guns" you have to do all the fixing if anything goes wrong, so it is either repaired by you or is retired to a cupboard. I don't really see the need for a tapered at each end tank, only the end furthest away from you may benefit from less lateral drag and a pneumatic uses tank volume to keep the compression ratio low. As you will not be looking along it the tank profile is not an issue if you use intuitive aiming.
Thank you so much for your thoughts. The importer seems (One Breath Spearfishing) to be on top of things so I have requested prices for service kits, pistons and shock absorbers. I do my own maintenance so as long as I can access what I need it should be ok. I guess having something out of the ordinary is part of the attraction and in that is acceptance of risks.
I had another play round with the LG “Revolution” images and this composite photo is the result. I now think that the rear housing has the inner barrel screwed into it and that the piston tail when cocked projects into the rear housing from inside the inner barrel. The rocking sear lever pivot pin probably inserts from the front of the rear housing and is trapped by the inner barrel in side slots as I don’t see a transverse mounting hole for it, which is not surprising as it needs to be confined in a pressurized area. The reason for the machined metal rear housing is that the window for the line release lever operation can be cut close to what would normally be the wall of the inner barrel without breaking through into it even though the window is inclined at an angle on one side of the gun. The trigger pivot pin being slightly set back buys a bit more piston travel, but I expect most of any gain is in the short piston. I have not looked for more photos, so the innards of the gun may be revealed elsewhere. I assume the sear lever is relatively conventional by the shape of the mushroom head on the piston tail and the push pad formed by the top of the adjustment bolt at the rear of the trigger which conforms with the usual Italian pneumatic speargun mechanism. The grip handle seems secured by the two transverse pins, yet I don’t see an interlocking step where the handle and grip butt up against each other which is often a means used to transfer load from gun recoil into a separate handle attached under the gun body. Grip handles can crack if loads are transmitted to them through small areas where stresses can concentrate, although thick plastic wall sections can counter this effect.
Thanks Pete, I will have a Manilu 112 in a few months and will knock it down and take photos for your info. I am excited to possess a new air gun as I have been using band guns to great effect for the past few year's. I just love machined ally and cant wait to shoot one of these guns. I don't expect it to be significantly better than other leading brands but that's not why I am purchasing this gun. So I will keep in touch.
Not to piss on anyone's parade cuz I love CNCed alu as much as the next guy and this is such a beautiful gun but why LG did not make a "reverse trigger" on this gun seems to me a bit of a missed opportunity.
With the CNCed handle, they should have been able to do it quite neatly. Or maybe I am missing something about the geometry...? A reverse trigger would, perhaps, sit a tad lower which might push the handle further down under the barrel which means less recoil control.
Andrew, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the buoyancy and balance of this gun in the water. I have seen some slightly worrying pics on Italian forums with a shorter model having had floatation added. I really hope that is not needed on the longer ones and I really hope that it isn't really needed on the shorter ones, either. Maybe it was an earlier proto or a spearo that likes super lights guns;-)
That said, I would love to get one myself at some point;-)
With the CNCed handle, they should have been able to do it quite neatly. Or maybe I am missing something about the geometry...? A reverse trigger would, perhaps, sit a tad lower which might push the handle further down under the barrel which means less recoil control.
Andrew, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the buoyancy and balance of this gun in the water. I have seen some slightly worrying pics on Italian forums with a shorter model having had floatation added. I really hope that is not needed on the longer ones and I really hope that it isn't really needed on the shorter ones, either. Maybe it was an earlier proto or a spearo that likes super lights guns;-)
That said, I would love to get one myself at some point;-)
Guns with metal bulkheads are usually "sinkers", but can be made to float if the metal is machined away leaving essentially a shell where metal is present only where it is needed. An example is the "Taimen", in some places the metal is as thin as a razor blade. However the "LG" logo machined in the top of the rear handle body would appear to indicate some metal depth there, but a flotation element in the plastic handle may offset some of that weight. I guess we will know when the gun on order is inspected.
All the band and air guns I own sink spear first when loaded . The buoyancy of the fore end while hunting is more important but drag has a larger effect on the effort required to raise the barrel. Turning the gun upside down and using the leverage provided by the handle is a natural grip for hand ergonomics when swimming forward, or holding into a current. I generally dive 5 to 20 meters in good vis looking down and forward so a gun which is easy to drop when about to dive is more important to me than a "neutrally" buoyant one. I guess if the depths were shallower and all targets were out in front a gun with positive mussel buoyancy would be an advantage. The only critical factor for me is that unloaded the gun floats. I have also viewed clips where an LG 102 sinks horizontally when loaded which would be new for me, but I think surface swimming with it pulled underneath and upside down rather than pushed out in front when looking down suits my style and is more streamline in current. Very much looking forward to the tapered front end which should be similar to the Mares Cyrano for aiming. I have a camera mount ordered also so will post footage for your info.
I get your point about the gun sinking muzzle down first and that it may not be an issue for deeper hunters. A lot of the spearing in the Med is deep, but they also have shallow hunting for e.g. mullet and a lot of shallow ambushing where you lie and wait. In Scandinavia and the UK, it is mostly shallow but those are small markets.
I just happen to like a very neutral gun. People used to say, you would need a nose heavy gun to counter muzzle lift during shooting but reviewing my own videos I don't notice any lift - maybe our guns just shoot too fast, haha.
My point is that it is easier making a gun heavier than the other way around so if you go through all the R&D and money to make a brand new gun with hydroformed tanks, I would, personally, have designed a more neutral gun with the option to weigh it down a tad if needed.
That said, this is still speculation based on a few pics of floatation added to one gun. Maybe it's not an issue at all. And if it is, it is likely to be in the smaller guns.
I just happen to like a very neutral gun. People used to say, you would need a nose heavy gun to counter muzzle lift during shooting but reviewing my own videos I don't notice any lift - maybe our guns just shoot too fast, haha.
My point is that it is easier making a gun heavier than the other way around so if you go through all the R&D and money to make a brand new gun with hydroformed tanks, I would, personally, have designed a more neutral gun with the option to weigh it down a tad if needed.
That said, this is still speculation based on a few pics of floatation added to one gun. Maybe it's not an issue at all. And if it is, it is likely to be in the smaller guns.
Sorry Pete, I don't buy the "usual sinkers" argument here. You are, of course, right (as always) in that "metal guns" used to be sinkers. But LG designed this from the ground up and even made brand new hydroformed reservoirs for them. Should be easy enough to add a little extra volume in Solidworks/Autocad before you milled the molds.
But I will let it rest now as I am borderline violating my own principles here. This could be mistaken as slander on a beautiful gun which it is def not meant to be. In fact, I applaud LG for pushing the envelope. It is just that I am a tad worried after having seen very few pics of a gun with extra floats on it. I hope I/we can soon update this tread with some more specific info on how this gun actually floats.
Also, I am probably a minority here as I really like my guns to be very close to neutral in the water;-)
It would appear from this photo that an interlocking step has now been added to the LG “Revolution” handle so that the two transverse attachment pins are not the only items transferring recoil loads from the gun body into the plastic grip handle. Otherwise a shot could eventually fracture the earlier grip at the metal pin locations and send the then freed gun body straight back into the operator’s face.
