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"new" Lunocet...
- Thread starternoa
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Did a few sprints at the end of tonight's session - so not entirely reliable due to progressive fatigue and all that, but I did start off with the Lunocet. 50m (2x25m) was taking 20s in a mono (waterway #2), 25s in the lunocet, 26.something seconds in duck-fins and 28s with no fins on. I'll give them all another go some time when I'm fresh.
Luno seems to stack up better against the other fins when you're going fast. The problems tend to rear their respective heads a bit more when you slow down.
Luno seems to stack up better against the other fins when you're going fast. The problems tend to rear their respective heads a bit more when you slow down.
So... you are basically saying that at its best, the new Lunocet is about on par with a pair of Duck Fins, but it is much more problematic when used at the lower speeds where freedivers typically operate. With all the effort that has gone into the Lunocet, it should be working better than that by now. What’s up; is it all marketing and no tech?
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Hi guys,
Interesting to read of the new mods on the Lunocet. I guess what I'm wondering why it seems that there are so many revisions and yet little change in the end result (from our point of view)?
Could it be a case of having an aesthetically pleasing (and very cool) looking design concept but that unfortunately just does not hold up to testing against other types of fins?
The main feeling I had in terms of why the Lunocet (well, the version I tried at the Blue Hole), didn't work, was about the drag it causes on its own. First of all, the cycling shoes. I just could see how you can have a monofin type finning technique with inflexible plastic/metal shoes on (I didn't see any instructions on how to use the lunocet any differently unless I missed that - I did try different ways of using it just to make sure). A monofin finning action depends on some degree of blade flex under the foot. These shoes have zero or only a very slight flexing, unless that's changed recently. So that would suggest the shoes are going to cause drag throughout most of the swimming motion. Has the surface of the shoe been streamlined at all?
This was always in my mind the limitation of sticking a bifin footpocket on a monofin, even with an angle. Not bad for recreational diving, feet stay warm, but it took several years before special/leaderfins and other brands to get the flexing working better. Of course, they decided to keep it simple and ignore for the most part looking at streamlining the footpocket. I remember one of the first prototypes that was sent to me in 2002, I think, and it absolutely sucked because the footpocket was ultra rigid and so was the blade underneath.
Anyway, I'm getting long winded here. But I think that's got to be one of the problems. Either pick a different approach to moving the blade for propulsion, or ditch the shoes, or improve them, or some other new combination.
That being said, I hope Ted does find a successful mod. We need more advancements in this area.
Pete
Interesting to read of the new mods on the Lunocet. I guess what I'm wondering why it seems that there are so many revisions and yet little change in the end result (from our point of view)?
Could it be a case of having an aesthetically pleasing (and very cool) looking design concept but that unfortunately just does not hold up to testing against other types of fins?
The main feeling I had in terms of why the Lunocet (well, the version I tried at the Blue Hole), didn't work, was about the drag it causes on its own. First of all, the cycling shoes. I just could see how you can have a monofin type finning technique with inflexible plastic/metal shoes on (I didn't see any instructions on how to use the lunocet any differently unless I missed that - I did try different ways of using it just to make sure). A monofin finning action depends on some degree of blade flex under the foot. These shoes have zero or only a very slight flexing, unless that's changed recently. So that would suggest the shoes are going to cause drag throughout most of the swimming motion. Has the surface of the shoe been streamlined at all?
This was always in my mind the limitation of sticking a bifin footpocket on a monofin, even with an angle. Not bad for recreational diving, feet stay warm, but it took several years before special/leaderfins and other brands to get the flexing working better. Of course, they decided to keep it simple and ignore for the most part looking at streamlining the footpocket. I remember one of the first prototypes that was sent to me in 2002, I think, and it absolutely sucked because the footpocket was ultra rigid and so was the blade underneath.
Anyway, I'm getting long winded here. But I think that's got to be one of the problems. Either pick a different approach to moving the blade for propulsion, or ditch the shoes, or improve them, or some other new combination.
That being said, I hope Ted does find a successful mod. We need more advancements in this area.
Pete
My new Starfins is sized for 5 mil footpockets. As I've said elsewhere - the fin is excellent - but in the pool - without a suit to streamline the socks - I notice significant drag just from the cuffs of the 5 mil socks! (of course - I could get the right kind of socks...) Theres no question the cycling shoes generate drag but how significant this is for recreational diving I can't say. I've wondered if you could put some kind of polypropylene shrink wrap on the shoes to make then slicker in the water. I remember Orca wetsuits saying that poly is incredibly hydrodynamic. I'd like to see some kind of shell like Ron has on the Dol-fin Orca if the lunocet is ever used in competition.
One of the issues being addressed is moving the feet closer together - more like a conventional mono. I saw this as a problem in the both old and the new lunocet and I think it will help with drag as well as thrust.
Improvements: The new Lunocet is not as draggy as the first one and glides reasonably well - but it also does not have as much thrust. It is more 'human scaled' and feels better to swim with - weight in the water for the one I have is slightly negative - but the carbon and composite models are nearly neutral. You can reasonably swim long distances with this fin and it is much easier to maneuver - though the current wide foot placement makes rotational movements feel really awkward.
I'm not as precise as Dave - but my own performance tests vs a hyperfin and no fins are entirely consistent with his.
One of the issues being addressed is moving the feet closer together - more like a conventional mono. I saw this as a problem in the both old and the new lunocet and I think it will help with drag as well as thrust.
Improvements: The new Lunocet is not as draggy as the first one and glides reasonably well - but it also does not have as much thrust. It is more 'human scaled' and feels better to swim with - weight in the water for the one I have is slightly negative - but the carbon and composite models are nearly neutral. You can reasonably swim long distances with this fin and it is much easier to maneuver - though the current wide foot placement makes rotational movements feel really awkward.
I'm not as precise as Dave - but my own performance tests vs a hyperfin and no fins are entirely consistent with his.
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Chris,
When using thick socks in the pool I've found the OMER style to be the best. They have these thick ankle seals on the top that are made to seal against the inside leg of your wetsuit. In the pool I turn them inside out so they seal against my leg. It seems to eliminate the "bellows effect" that you get swimming with socks on and no suit.
As far as the Lunocet goes, I got a chance to try out the first one and found it to be incredibly harsh on my ankles. There is no gentle flow to the flexing of the fin like there is with a standard monofin. You start to swim and the blade just slams back and forth from one angle to the other. If there were some way to dampen the abruptness of the change it might help out a great deal.
I happen to like the Mustang foot pockets for bi-fins while doing long surface swims. I didn't like them on the Monoflap. I'm not sure if they really have a place on a monofin or not. I tried the cycling shoe on the Lunocet and was impressed with the comfort, but not the fin. I also tried them out on the Sporasub Radical bi-fins. Again, I was impressed with the comfort, but the bins sucked big time.
Having said all of this, I'm really interested in trying out the Dol-fin.
Jon
When using thick socks in the pool I've found the OMER style to be the best. They have these thick ankle seals on the top that are made to seal against the inside leg of your wetsuit. In the pool I turn them inside out so they seal against my leg. It seems to eliminate the "bellows effect" that you get swimming with socks on and no suit.
As far as the Lunocet goes, I got a chance to try out the first one and found it to be incredibly harsh on my ankles. There is no gentle flow to the flexing of the fin like there is with a standard monofin. You start to swim and the blade just slams back and forth from one angle to the other. If there were some way to dampen the abruptness of the change it might help out a great deal.
I happen to like the Mustang foot pockets for bi-fins while doing long surface swims. I didn't like them on the Monoflap. I'm not sure if they really have a place on a monofin or not. I tried the cycling shoe on the Lunocet and was impressed with the comfort, but not the fin. I also tried them out on the Sporasub Radical bi-fins. Again, I was impressed with the comfort, but the bins sucked big time.
Having said all of this, I'm really interested in trying out the Dol-fin.
Jon
I put together this short video of my dive buddy Jason with the new lunocet after a few hours practice - the water was very cold that day and we were in our 3 mil suits - so sprinting mostly. I've done slow swimming with the Lunocet - best with very large amplitude.
His monofin technique is work in progress (he's better with his waterway nemo) but you can at least see the fin in action. We will get some better video after the mod arrives. Dave - any chance of getting some video of you in the pool with yours?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks8vH0E1ReA]YouTube - jluno.mp4[/ame]
His monofin technique is work in progress (he's better with his waterway nemo) but you can at least see the fin in action. We will get some better video after the mod arrives. Dave - any chance of getting some video of you in the pool with yours?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks8vH0E1ReA]YouTube - jluno.mp4[/ame]
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Hey question about the lunocet, can you adjust the tension and angle of the blade?
I've looked through some video and I've noticed the fin bends at the peak of each kick. Also the angle of the blade looks like its angled away from a normal 'down kick' which I thought might give it less thrust. Of course I'm just speculating, just wondering how adjustable it is.
I've looked through some video and I've noticed the fin bends at the peak of each kick. Also the angle of the blade looks like its angled away from a normal 'down kick' which I thought might give it less thrust. Of course I'm just speculating, just wondering how adjustable it is.
Purchased my Dol-Fin Orca monofin this week, on the way, will keep everyone posted here and on my youtube YouTube - wjohnson100's Channel‏ for you to see. I will be testing it along with a couple of friends. On initial viewing of both in action on youtube, my impression is that the Lunocet requires much higher amplitude strokes than the Dol-Fin due to the difference in the size and shape of their wings. The Dol-Fin has a much higher aspect ratio than either the Lunocet or a traditional monofin. I will know for myself soon how that effects its performance in the water. Interestingly, Natalia Molchanova performed an approximately 220 meter DYN with the Orca in a recent AIDA World Championship after just a few hours of experience with the fin, so the Orca definitely has the chops to perform alongside the traditional monofin in a competitive environment. Personnally, I think someone (not me, LOL) will do a 300 meter DYN with this device at some point. Stay tuned.
Hi WJ - you might want to post your updates on the Dol-fin thread - which is here http://forums.deeperblue.com/monofins/85969-extreme-dolfinism-18.html
all the best
all the best
I recently came across a Lunocet Facebook page The Lunocet - Wall | Facebook.
There is not a lot of activity there (several questions and/or comments from people wondering if the page/product has been abandoned), but there were some pictures uploaded in January from someone in Hawaii showing the new-new-Lunocet (the one with the feet more closely spaced together). So apparently Ted is shipping this design now even though the Lunocet website still shows the older design previously evaluated by Fondueset.
Anyone know anything about whether or not this latest round of changes had the desired efficacy on performance. Included here is one of the Hawaii photos from Facebook.
There is not a lot of activity there (several questions and/or comments from people wondering if the page/product has been abandoned), but there were some pictures uploaded in January from someone in Hawaii showing the new-new-Lunocet (the one with the feet more closely spaced together). So apparently Ted is shipping this design now even though the Lunocet website still shows the older design previously evaluated by Fondueset.
Anyone know anything about whether or not this latest round of changes had the desired efficacy on performance. Included here is one of the Hawaii photos from Facebook.
Attachments
I know Ted made some design changes on recommendations from me and several others, but I've not personally checked the fin out. He has been busy with a television project. My understanding is that the fin was, or soon will be shipping.
In addition to the feet position, the blade looks a little longer (could be just relative to foot placement) - and, possibly, the webbing may be more rigid.
In addition to the feet position, the blade looks a little longer (could be just relative to foot placement) - and, possibly, the webbing may be more rigid.
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I have a Lunocet that I purchased in 2009, one of the first ones. I have not received any follow up from Steve Ciamillo regarding new mods. In any event, I'm interested in selling the Lunocet & I'd be hopeful that Steve would be able to get the mod to me.
I've used the Lunocet a few times in Barton Springs in Austin. I thought it was pretty killer but I had a snowboarding accident and tore up my shoulder, need surgery but haven't yet. Haven't been able to swim. So, I'm going to sell it at a discount. Email me if interested - bartbarton@rocketmail.com
I've used the Lunocet a few times in Barton Springs in Austin. I thought it was pretty killer but I had a snowboarding accident and tore up my shoulder, need surgery but haven't yet. Haven't been able to swim. So, I'm going to sell it at a discount. Email me if interested - bartbarton@rocketmail.com
