New Omer Carbon Blades for Stingray Footpockets

[Gugi]

Hi guys,
First - nice to be here with you!
I've already had Omer Stingray for almost a year, and something more interesting - with carbon blades!!!
But... not with Omer blades! I bought a PVE Mack VI blades, redesigned for Stingray foot pocket - new attaching profile for mounting to the pocket and new 22 degrees angle.
I like them both... a lot...
Here some pic's...

**The second picture shows some tunning made by me.

 

[DivingDane]

hehehehehe, PVE was the company making the Rekord III blade for quite a while. and yes they are nice, can imagine that designed for the Stingray pocket they would be VERY NICE!

 

[spaghetti]

I've heard this thing about Pierre Van Ecke making blades for Rekord III, but I've never been able to make sure if it's true or not. Does anyone have a final say on the question? It's just for curiosity.

 

[DivingDane]

not an official pone but if you put both blades next to each other they are identical in weave pattern but also more interestingly in the side rail profile with the double rail setup, i know this is true on older Rekord 3's but have noticed the later model ones shipping last year had a much smaller weave and a different side rail, not to mention a different taper.

DD

 

[Gugi]

I've heard this thing about Pierre Van Ecke making blades for Rekord III, but I've never been able to make sure if it's true or not. Does anyone have a final say on the question? It's just for curiosity.

Here what I know about:
Yes! PVE has produced the Omer Record 3 blades, but not for the last 2 years, except for the French market. The trick is that PVE has no its own production facilities for this delicate stuff... The original PVE's blades are ordered by him in some of the French carbon parts suppliers for the aircraft industry near-by Marseille, probably in Lion. That's why his pattern and quality of the carbon fabrics are obviously different - for the blades are used fabrics from the main production. Excluding the concept (shape, stiffness etc.), PVE fixes only the rubber side rails and the stickers with his logo. All that restricts sometimes the market flexibility for such a big player like Omer - quantity, prices, terms of delivery etc. - too many monkies on the bough... In its attempt to reduce the production costs recently Omer contracted with a Chineese producer for the Record 3 blades. That's why and you guys have noticed the differences between PVE and Record 3 blades last years.
The new Stingray carbon blades look great and are manufactured in Slovenia, if the first "inofficial" info is correct...

 

[spaghetti]

I had indeed the previous Rekord III with the bigger texture (the blades looked like chessboards) and I was really pleased with them. Very good fins.

Out of my chest, If I had to buy some new carbons now, I would still get some european made blades, not chinese. But this is a political consideration, not technical, so never mind.

 

[DivingDane]

figured that. i do like my rekord 3's (PVE model) however as i have changed my approach to diving and my style i favour much softer fins and have because of this put my rekord 3's out to pasture. so C4's are what i currently have for dedicated freediving (81's) but REALLY looiking forward to trying the stingray carbons to see if they suit my needs for spearfsihing!

DD

 

[strangelove]

I had indeed the previous Rekord III with the bigger texture (the blades looked like chessboards) and I was really pleased with them. Very good fins.

Out of my chest, If I had to buy some new carbons now, I would still get some european made blades, not chinese. But this is a political consideration, not technical, so never mind.

Spago

Get a hybrid special fin medium stiffness. If you want to test dive one, I am in Rio now, just get the next flight from Rome

You can also try my cayman 110HF with HH muzzle.

 

[Gugi]

Really the subject of this thread concerns the new carbon blades by Omer for the new Stingray foot pocket. I took part in the discussion not to "stick out" with my PVE blades (they are not an event) but just to share my inner conviction about the good future for Stingray Carbon fins. I mentioned Pierre Van Eecke because he was the first who instantly estimated the advantages of the Stingray foot pockets and two months after the official presentation of the new Stingray fins he adjusted his MackVI blades to it. @DivingDane - if you have driven PVE with Milenium FP, with Stngray it's really another "beer"!

Many specialists rated the Stingray as the best polymer fins on the market but till now, due to some differences in the attachment of the blades there wasn't around any suitable choice of composite blades for it (except PVE). Where are these differences:
1. 22 degr. angle of the blade.
2. The angle on the foot pocket is moved ahead, in front of the foot. That makes the "tail" of the blade behind the angle, where it gets in the foot pocket longer with aprox. 10 mm.
3. Thanks to the above the mounting screws are moved back - far from the blade's bend where the main tension is. This involves some advantages - eliminates the risk of crashing the blade in the holes and allows avoiding the complicated glueing the blades. Thanks to the soft and flexible side rails of the foot pocket, and just with a screwdriver the change of the blades is "piece of cake". (My carbon blades are mounted with screws and no problems at all. I kept and the original plastic blades for any case and can change them if needed.)

And somthig else: the PVE blades (also Record 3, Beuchat Mundial) are "spearfishing" blades according to some conceptions. They are wider (22 cm.) and shorter (72 cm.) The new carbon Stingray blades look more closer to the newest trends for narrower and longer "freediving" blades (just for info: the original Stingray polymer blades are 20 cm wide and 80 cm. long). It's presently more demanding. Let us hope that in the future and some other producers will "plug in" to the Stingray foot pocket with different composite blades and all we'll be more happy...

Generally some interesting competition is rising, especially on the Mediteranian marketplace where the divers will have to choose among a pile of new quality foot pockets (Pathos Fireblade, Omer Stingray, Mares Razor, the new Picasso etc.) and the "avalanche" of new composite blades launched from one side by the aggressive young producers from Greece, Slovenia, Croatia and Turkey and the other - "The Old Monsters" from Italy, France, Spain etc.

 

[DivingDane]

Agree with pretty much everything you have said with the stingray pocket! the main reason i think Spago and i have commented on the Rekord and hence PVE is that the Carbon stingray is OMERS evolution i guess of their Carbon range.

I agree the Stingray pocket is a vast improvement on previuos pockets, and having used the pathos and Beuchat once or twice (havent tried the Mares Yet) i definetly think the Stingrays have a nicer fit and VERY good power transfur even in plastic blades.

i did not realise that Picasso had changed their footpocket too? i was in a shop with apparently new picasso pockets but they looked exactly the same and only felt maybe a little bit softer so no really big revolation. those pockets even with sox always left me with serious blisters across the top of my toes.... ouch!

anyway i agree that with the new pockets and so many new blades out we are all spiled for choice.

interesting that Omer has diontinued their composite line of blades (pegaso) and focused on a hybrid carbon blade as their ultimate solution.

i have to agree i find fibreglas to be a bit of a strange beast when it comes to blade materials for bifins it is very strong but does not have the performance of carbon or the weight advantages. so if they can make a carbon blae with Carbon performance and as durable or more than Fibreglass i would say it will spell the end of fibreglass blades?

DD

 

[Gugi]

... so if they can make a carbon blae with Carbon performance and as durable or more than Fibreglass i would say it will spell the end of fibreglass blades?

DD

Yep, sounds logically... but... don't you think something lacks... The price of a pair Stingray with thermoplastic blades is about Eur. 75. The price for Carbon Stingrays is expected to be Eur. 300-320. Where is "the happy mean"?
If the new partner of Omer for the carbon blades proves its quality, than where is the problem to produce and high quality fiberglass blades at lower price just like XX1 does? Their glass blades are not Anax but are much better then any polymer blades, and have plenty of fans due to the reasonable price... Will see...

P.S. BTW Pegaso is not a good example...

 

[DivingDane]

hmmmm i dont know, the Pegaso did well for me when put in the right pocket, in millenium, they were not particularly good they wouldnt bend past the end of the footpocket rails! but when put into Stingray pockets!!!!! completly different fin.

i put together a pair like this for a pretty well known freediver, who was addicted to Mtechniks in beuchat pockets, and he LOVED them, he knows a fair bit about fins and what he likes and doesnt, having owned C4 80's as well as a many other fins before these and wah very happy. these blades comfortably take him to well over 30-40m on FRC. so they cant be to bad.

they stack up more than favourably with a cult fin the DiveR 900 fins made here in Australia which are supposedly the best fibre fin in the world,but i found them too long and very sloppy esily being able to out perform them with the Pegaso.

mind you after seeing a pair of Pegaso blades a friend imported recently from europe the model he had was vastly differrent to the ones we recieved in australia??? his you could see the whitish matt and weive of the fibre glass in the angled part of the blade, and the camo was a sticker, where as the models we recieved here were impregnated with the colour camo insie the fibreglass???

given that they are focusing on the new stingray footpocket, it is quite possible they will rerelease a new composite blade next season, after they have had the carbon the the market for a while. i think Omer always had far too many fin options on the market anyway:
- Millenium Winter
- Millenium green
- millenium competition
- millenium Runner
- millenium Ice
- Stingray
- Millenium Pegaso
- millenium rekord 3

and that was last years line up! and thats without taking into account different stiffnesses in models! far too many in reality.

ideally i would see:
- Stingray
- Stingray DEEP (stiffer blade)
- Stingray Composite
- Stingray Carbon

however i know there is am money issue between composite and Carbon but not THAT much, nothing more than at most couple of extra weeks maybe a month savings for most people, so surely diving you old fins for another month is worth it to get a superior product.

i'm still not convinced that a FIbre fin is REALLY required if the Carbon pricing is reasonable, so we'll see what happens.

i believe the Stingray arbons are out this month in Europe? anybody seen RRP pricing yet, not interested in who is the cheapest, that will alway change but would be interested in knowing what the manufacturers recommended pricing is, thios will give us a good comparison to compare RRP pricing between composite and Carbon not advertised pricing because it depends how low a margin companies are comfortable with.


DD

 

[BabyGonz123]

any idea where i can get the carbon blade version of the stingrays in the US? (blades only)

 

[spaghetti]

Stingray ICE blades!!!

given that they are focusing on the new stingray footpocket, it is quite possible they will rerelease a new composite blade next season, after they have had the carbon the the market for a while. i think Omer always had far too many fin options on the market anyway:
- Millenium Winter
- Millenium green
- millenium competition
- millenium Runner
- millenium Ice
- Stingray
- Millenium Pegaso
- millenium rekord 3
and that was last years line up! and thats without taking into account different stiffnesses in models! far too many in reality.
ideally i would see: - Stingray - Stingray DEEP (stiffer blade) - Stingray Composite - Stingray Carbon
i believe the Stingray arbons are out this month in Europe? anybody seen RRP pricing yet, not interested in who is the cheapest, that will alway change but would be interested in knowing what the manufacturers recommended pricing is, thios will give us a good comparison to compare RRP pricing between composite and Carbon not advertised pricing because it depends how low a margin companies are comfortable with.

DD

Yes the Stingray Carbon are in shops here in Italy. Pinne StingRay Carbon : Tutto Pesca Mare

Interesting to know, Omer will also release a Stingray Ice version, according to Omer's commercial director. He's unable to set a certain timetable by now, but he says they'll be ready in a few months "before Summer 2010".
They will be clear transparent Ice-type blades with the angle for Stingray footpockets. Well well.

 

[spaghetti]

any idea where i can get the carbon blade version of the stingrays in the US? (blades only)

Hi, sorry for late response. You may drop a line to our friend Mark at Omer USA. He's the importer, not a retailer, but he will point you straight on target: info@omerdiving.com, or Omer Usa, TechnoSport Inc. 1176 Jensen Drive, Virginia Beach, VA 23451 tel. (800) 853-1911 fax (757) 428-4155

Hope this helps.

 

[Spear0Joe]

Spag, if money was no option what spearfishing fins would you get?

 

[spaghetti]

Spag, if money was no option what spearfishing fins would you get?

Awwww, here's a sweet question: if money was no option...:inlove

Well it's just me, but I think I'd get C4 Mustang Vgr 30 for tough dives AND a pair of GFT Bassofondo medium (with a compact 65 centimeters blade, 100% carbon) for hunting on shallow rocky bottoms. GFT Prodotto 1

I currently own two pairs of Cressi's (Reaction pro and Gara 3000) and a plethora of Millennium sets (Ice, Black, Winter). I had the Rekords too but a bloody bastard stole them from my bag, and the bloody Falcon 30 that fell unnoticed from my backpack as I was riding a scooter to the beach.

As you read above I've been quite unfortunate with expensive fins lately, and I've learned the lesson the hardest way. Lesson is: "Careful with that credit card, dude, those things are expensive!":blackeye

 

[Spear0Joe]

cheers for the reply! its just i want some carbon fins but the last 2 pairs ive had one being c4 falcons have snapped at the screws, just looking for a pair that i can rely on! those GFT look nice but how durable?

 

[spaghetti]

The C4 vgr in production now never snap. Of course anybody is entitled to prove me wrong if they have had different experience, but the owner of C4 says that since they adopted the new type of carbon fiber, the T700, they have not yet received even a single warranty claim for blades snapping. Not a single claim in almost two years with the new material.
This is what he says, at least, and I can't prove it wrong.
About Gft, it's a pretty new manufacturer so that's an act of faith to buy his products. They look nice though, and I've always fancied about shorter carbon blades for my average spearfishing.

 

[Spear0Joe]

Thanks for your wealth of knowledge spag, I just had a look at those VGR, they look nice, however do they only come with that foot type pocket? and any european shops selling? thanks in advance mate.


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