new OMER pneumatic!!!

[Mark Laboccetta]

Hey Pete, I'm sure Mares and Cressi sell more pneumatics than we do still because they have been out on the market for a steady period of time. The AIRbalete is a novelty just like the Cyrano was many years ago.

However, my goal for the US market is to re instill the pneumatic culture. It's been missing for years now except for a few isolated parts of the country where pneumatics are still favored among local divers. Everybody and their brother makes a band gun these days. It takes a solid company to make a good airgun on the other hand. I hope the AIrbalete is just an excuse for a come back of the pneumatic counter culture. They really are a load of fun (no pun intended). My dirty water gun starting next season is a 90 AIrba, it will take the place of my longer 75cm cayman alum. I haven't used pneumos for a long time. I'll have to get used to the aim again.

Having said that I've enjoyed some aspects of this thread more than others and enjoyed your savy technical feedback. I would be curious to know if you run the numbers again what the pressure variation would be between a dry kitted 90 gun and the AIRbalete 90, both with 6.75mm shafts at a depth of 15 meters, hypothetically the deepest range a small gun like this would be used by freedivers. Thanks in advance,

 

[popgun pete]

To save hitting the calculator keys I made up a simple spreadsheet. If we change the spear diameter from 6.50 mm to 6.75 mm then instead of 19.25 Bar (relative), as calculated earlier, we now get 19.12 Bar (relative). These pressures are the gun's relative pressure at that depth of 40 metres. The gun's initial charge pressure is 20 Bar gauge or 21 Bar absolute, so we are improving on the net pressure on the piston of 16 Bar after subtracting the ambient pressure at 40 metres of depth (i.e. [20 minus 4] or [21 minus 5 absolute]). If we change the operating depth from 40 metres and retreat back up to 15 metres then the new result is 20.06 Bar (relative to the ambient pressure at 15 metres) compared with 18.5 Bar at that depth (gun pressure 20 Bar minus 1.5 Bar ambient pressure). Changing the internal barrel diameter from 11 mm to 11.2 mm the new result is 20.09 Bar (relative to the ambient pressure at 15 metres), everything else remaining the same. These figures are for the fitting of a vacuum barrel kit and show the effective pressure advantage when compared to using a flooded barrel gun at depth, but they say nothing about the back pressure of a water filled barrel in terms of the piston being driven along the inner barrel compared to a dry barrel with near to zero pressure in it. These numbers are only about the pressure shielding effect of a dry barrel kit, the piston in the cocked gun can only experience the ambient pressure outside the gun being transmitted through the body of the shaft to it, the rest of its outer face is experiencing close to zero pressure, unless the gun leaks water back into the inner barrel.

The mass of water in the flooded inner barrel of the gun is respectively 40.57g (11, 6.5), 38.87g (11, 6.75) and 41.15g (11.2, 6.75) for the inner barrel diameter and spear diameter combinations shown in brackets.

 

[foxfish]

Thing is guys - if you want air guns to gain the popularity they deserve I feel this technical jargon, as interesting to some as it may be, might have a negative effect on any average guy looking to buy an air gun.
Any member stumbling across this thread with the intent of possible airgun ownership is going to get very disillusioned about the basic simplicity of their design & function - so can I propose we take any more tech stuff over to a separate thread or over to this one perhaps http://forums.deeperblue.com/pneumatic-spearguns/81902-vacuum-barrels-aka-dry-barrels.html?.
Opinions please?

 

[tromic]

Thing is guys - if you want air guns to gain the popularity they deserve I feel this technical jargon, as interesting to some as it may be, might have a negative effect on any average guy looking to buy an air gun.
Any member stumbling across this thread with the intent of possible airgun ownership is going to get very disillusioned about the basic simplicity of their design & function - so can I propose we take any more tech stuff over to a separate thread or over to this one perhaps http://forums.deeperblue.com/pneumatic-spearguns/81902-vacuum-barrels-aka-dry-barrels.html?.
Opinions please?

Agree, foxfish, move it to: "Vacuum barrels" aka "Dry barrels".:friday

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Any member stumbling across this thread with the intent of possible airgun ownership is going to get very disillusioned about the basic simplicity of their design & function - so can I propose we take any more tech stuff over to a separate thread or over to this one perhaps http://forums.deeperblue.com/pneumatic-spearguns/81902-vacuum-barrels-aka-dry-barrels.html?.
Opinions please?

You're right and I agree since I incited most of it from the technical minds of this thread for my own curiosity. Any post from page 22 on that has to do specifically with muzzle velocity's, pressures and technical break down comparisons should be removed or moved over.

Its easy for the not so well versed to misidentify these posts as pneumatic jargon that one should know in order to get the most out of a pneumatic speargun.

The air/oil pneumatic speargun is really nothing more than a tube of aluminum inside another tube of aluminum with seals and o-rings, a trigger mechanism that accepts the piston which holds the spear in place, and some oil to lubricate the stroke all pumped up prior like a bike tire( and know you don't have to repump it every time like a bike tire)

 

[popgun pete]

Thing is guys - if you want air guns to gain the popularity they deserve I feel this technical jargon, as interesting to some as it may be, might have a negative effect on any average guy looking to buy an air gun.
Any member stumbling across this thread with the intent of possible airgun ownership is going to get very disillusioned about the basic simplicity of their design & function - so can I propose we take any more tech stuff over to a separate thread or over to this one perhaps http://forums.deeperblue.com/pneumatic-spearguns/81902-vacuum-barrels-aka-dry-barrels.html?.
Opinions please?

I think you underestimate the intelligence of your readership, many more read than post. I really doubt that this discussion could have any negative effect on buying a speargun, although they may think twice about buying a vacuum muzzle kit. Mark opened the can of worms, he wants to promote the gun and I cannot blame him for wanting to do that. I may buy one myself, although the last thing I need is another speargun! I will be looking for a stockist, my regular dive shop closed down recently after many decades of doing business.

 

[foxfish]

Good point Pete but I spend 4 hours + day on db & I can honestly say that in my opinion the average guy on db has not a clue what is being talked about rofl

We will leave the thread as it stands for the time being but from my prospective, I would love to see any future tech discussions headlined under a new thread as this would be another great asset for db.

 

[popgun pete]

For those interested in such things there were three intellectual property patents taken out for the Omer "Airbalete", however only the one for the "Ringbarb" spear shaft system is currently available to read. That one is titled "Shaft head for speargun", the inventor is Marco Pisello and the publication number is EP2023073(A1), dated 11/02/2009.
The speargun itself is covered by two separate patents, "Fucile Subacqueo Ad Aria Compressa", the inventor is cited as Marco Mariani and the publication number is ITBO20080097(A1), dated 14/05/2008. The power regulating muzzle with the revolving shutter is covered by another patent "Dispositivo Di Regolazione Per Fucili Subacquei Ad Aria Compressa", the inventor is again cited as Marco Mariani and the publication number is ITBO20080096(A1) dated 14/05/2008. The applicant in each case is Omersub SPA.

 

[spaghetti]

Thanks Pete.
Mariani is indeed the head of Omer's technical panel (maybe Mark can correct me if I'm wrong on this), while Pisello is an architect, an industrial designer and an ex competitive spearo, who has designed several products for Omer, from The Master America and Cobra wood bandguns to the latest Sporasub led torch.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

(maybe Mark can correct me if I'm wrong on this),

You're right I can only add that Pisello used to design and develop Cressi products for spearfishing before he started collaboration with Omer.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Mark’s Wind On Shooting Line Setup

Since getting one of these for myself recently to use as my new inshore gun I wanted to share a worthwhile modification to the AIRbalete that should avoid lot’s of headaches and simplify an ideal shooting line and reel setup for the gun. This should avoid lot’s of trial and error particularly from less experienced divers for an effective and strong set up.

1. Tools you will need. Crimping pliers used for monofilament, crimps/sleeves (of the right size for the monofilament), a pair of shears or sharp scissors, lighter, wind on leader (premade or self tied for the really good guys), Dyneema/spectra or some other strong reel line, cable trace, drill and (5/64”-2mm drill bit).
THE WIND ON LEADER IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO USING A SWIVEL TO CONNECT THE REEL LINE TO THE SHOOTING LINE. It’s just my personal preference and you will see why.

2. Fill the reel with the Dyneema line. I like this yellow 180Kg/400lb test Dyneema reel backing because it’s supple w/o memory, thin, high visibility for low vis conditions, and extremely strong for its thickness (less than 2mm). It offers high resistance to abrasion doesn’t stretch and ties knots nicely. On the 50 ONE reel I fit 138’ but for good measure I would not recommend put more than 120’/40m or so because if you don’t reel it back on neatly you will scrape the top of the reel or it will spill off the sides causing bigger problems.

3. Drill the holes carefully with a titanium or carbide 5/64” (2mm) drill bit. One side of the holes in the slide ring is larger than the other side, insert the drill bit and drill at high speed. You will need a titanium or carbide bit to do this because the cast stainless slide ring is very hard to drill.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

4. Take a 12”-20” piece of 1/16” stainless steel cable w/pressed ball on one end, insert through slide ring . If you cannot source any of these (commonly used for big game spear slip tips) loop similar thickness cable through slide ring and crimp. I prefer the ball obviously as it’s cleaner and very low profile while offering the same breaking strength as the cable.
5. Slide a double barrel crimp/sleeve of the right size up the cable. Form a small tight loop in the cable and crimp it. Press the loop with pliers into an oval so it’s more hydrodynamic. Here in the pictures I braided the cable. It is something I like to do but it’s more time consuming and a pain if you’ve never done it. If you want to do this research braiding steel cable. In a nut shell most cable is 7 larger strands each composed of 7 hair strands. Twist the tip of the cable end and split up the 7 larger strands and divide them into 3 and 4 strands respectively. Split away 3” or so of cable of the two lumped strands. Re-braid the two strands into themselves to form a loop. Once the desirable size loop is achieved (again the smallest you can make without it messing up the braid) braid the two ends back together and swage. You now have your trace that will avoid any fish ever breaking you off at the spear slide ring attachment points.
6. Attach the monofilament shooting line of your wind on leader (commonly available from big game fishing suppliers) to your cable trace via a Uni knot, aka nail knot or noose. I’m using 200lb monofilament wind on leader. It came as a 25’ complete leader and I cut the monofilament section down to 8’ for my needs on the small 80cm AIrbalete. IF YOU CAN’T FIND A WIND ON LEADER SIMPLY CUT A 12’ PIECE OF 200LB MONOFILAMENT TO USE AS YOUR SHOOTING LINE.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Mark’s Wind On Shooting Line Setup

7. Take the other end of the wind-on leader, the looped end, and connect the reel line backing with a simple knot. I forget what this knot is called but it’s a clean small knot that holds braids tight. Make sure to burn the tag end of the reel line first. The rationale behind a small simple knot like this is that you want to be able to wind it into the reel without it getting hung up like a big knot or a swivel would. It is not advisable to wind anything but the smallest swivels into a reel.
8. And Whala! Wind it all up and set your desired shooting line length and # of loops and wind in the slack with the reel handle. The reason I prefer the wind on leader is that :
a. it’s extremely strong and will allow you to muscle in the fish and if it runs a swivel won’t cut your hand as it goes sliding through it.
b. it doesn’t cause noise or scratch a swivel against the barrel of the gun
c. (the most important reason) I can use as many or as few wraps of shooting line as I want depending on the type of visibility and effective shooting range of the fish I’m targeting that particular day. I keep the rest snug by winding it into the reel like reeling line through a rod tip. The shaft of the AIRbalete has a slide ring that holds the barb down making removing the fish a stitch so you don't need to unhook it from the shooting line.

Remember, when you have a “break off” it’s 99% user error, a pull off or tear off isn’t as easy to blame. Terminal gear breaks because it is improperly setup and the diver doesn’t have a good understanding of the limits of the terminal gear and how to set it up. This is just one way to do it that will help increase your chances of not letting them get away.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Mark’s Wind On Shooting Line Setup

A few more shots of what it should look like when it's done.

 

[peacenluv]

Where do you put the shaft when not in use? Holding it next to the gun scratches up the barrel. Thinking about using plastic rod holders to clip them in place.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Good question!? It is annoying.

 

[martinbar74]

Hi Mark ,
Good setup , but I have a question
Don’t you think that non symmetricity - attaching to the slider only from one of the sides will cause inaccuracy ?
I have airbalete 100 and noticed that smallest non symmetrical attaching to the slider/spear is causing visibal inaccuracy at the end of the trajectory.
Regarding scratches , I covered my airbalete with plastic tape making it more noiseless and even made some camouflage painting J , which I can change only with changing the plastic tape .
B/Rgds,
Martin

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Hey Martin and sorry for the late reply.

At the terminal range of the shot it might cause a very slight deviation but not enough to affect the range where it's useful and penetration is still good. In my experience it's only been when a shaft looses steam and doesn't have enough penetration anyway that it skewes off in one direction. Specifically on the 80cm gun the shot on prey is generally at short range. Also consider that shafts spin during flight a concern some have expressed using sharkfinned shafts with high profile fins in band guns. My priority with this setup is for the shooting line not to be severed where it attaches to the shaft in the event I have to force a strong fish away from structure.

That's a good idea, camouflage tape or some other to protect and conceal the gun

 

[HATE TANK]

I purchased the 80 cm. this summer.and all I can say is WOW!!!!! I am a huge fan of pnuematics and decided to give the new omer a try. It is the first truly accurate pnuematic I have used. Now mind you I hunt freshwater and this gun has now replaced all my other ones. I do alot of freshwater tournaments and a pnuematic is fast and accurate and your chest and legs dont look like bruised meat after shooting over a hundred fish in an afternoon. I would like to know however if omer can offer a threaded shaft to accomodate a slip tip? My shaft is hammered after a year of catfish, big carp, and I am designing a setup for big striper. Or is aftermarket the only answer??????? This application would be used for big record fish only, The flopper is perfect for competitions.

 

[martinbar74]

Hi Tank,
You can use threaded shaft produced by “Devoto”.
As per accuracy , I will be very grateful if Mark can advice what is the useful ( accurate range ) of airbalete all sizes .
I have 100 with 7 mm spear ( pressure about 24 bars ) and I am using it with 3 wraps ( 5.4 m only the rope ) + 100 spear = about 6.4 m which should be the range, but I notice that the spear travel slowly after 4th meter . Anyway at the end of the range (6.4m) the spear have a little pull and I suppose that the energy should be enough to kill 2-3 kg fish at 5 m .
If there are other owners or airbalete that can advice about their tests and best setups I will be very happy J
B/rgds,
Martin