Hi all, Just had my post deleted by "Deeper Blue". they say it was because I spoke about something I do that's deemed "Illegal" here in Spain, (useing a torch at night). Hang me, shoot me, torture me! I wont stop! but will stop posting on this site which is a shame as I have found the members and their posts very helpful. Bye all.
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No "Free Speech" on deeperblue!
- Thread starterGeoff
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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Hi Geoff,
I truly wonder what might have been so upsetting about your post, could you please forward it in a pm to me?
In my view your post could be an invitation to a debate. Now it appears the action just alienated another person for presumably merely stating his or a fishing method.
Just a question to those critical of this method:
If a person would like to catch a fish a week, and not more, would you mind how he catches the fish?
I think the subject revolves about fish-stock preservation, to that I will say that I think it's much more sensible to forbid fishing the endangered species, instead of making capture artificially more difficult.
At the same time I wonder how much fish-stock decline is due to local spearfisher men, how much due to local professional boat fisher men, how much due to global fisher trawlers, how much due to poisoning the waters etc.
I wonder if the fishing by spearfisher men stopped in full for say two years how much improvement it would yield, and also if any of the other categories would stop for two years, what their true impact is.
Sadly I find the honest numbers and information is difficult to find and hard to strip of bias and political spin.
When money comes, honesty goes.
Love, Courage and Water,
Kars
ps. This forum is a private place, so the sovereign makes the law here. Off cause his views or policies can be influenced by the visitors, but in the end it's his place and if we don't like it we're free to form our own forum or try at some other place. At the same time I hope that the King here can appreciate in his wisdom also the eccentric and the politically incorrect views, for they are spicing up the conversation and help us remember why we have our views as they currently are.
I truly wonder what might have been so upsetting about your post, could you please forward it in a pm to me?
In my view your post could be an invitation to a debate. Now it appears the action just alienated another person for presumably merely stating his or a fishing method.
Just a question to those critical of this method:
If a person would like to catch a fish a week, and not more, would you mind how he catches the fish?
I think the subject revolves about fish-stock preservation, to that I will say that I think it's much more sensible to forbid fishing the endangered species, instead of making capture artificially more difficult.
At the same time I wonder how much fish-stock decline is due to local spearfisher men, how much due to local professional boat fisher men, how much due to global fisher trawlers, how much due to poisoning the waters etc.
I wonder if the fishing by spearfisher men stopped in full for say two years how much improvement it would yield, and also if any of the other categories would stop for two years, what their true impact is.
Sadly I find the honest numbers and information is difficult to find and hard to strip of bias and political spin.
When money comes, honesty goes.
Love, Courage and Water,
Kars
ps. This forum is a private place, so the sovereign makes the law here. Off cause his views or policies can be influenced by the visitors, but in the end it's his place and if we don't like it we're free to form our own forum or try at some other place. At the same time I hope that the King here can appreciate in his wisdom also the eccentric and the politically incorrect views, for they are spicing up the conversation and help us remember why we have our views as they currently are.
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Ah, the fishing technique "that dare not speak its name".
The volunteer staff are inclined to keep this forum "on the straight and narrow", it's a respectable site. Having lived in the US of A for a number of years, I have learnt to value freedom of speech more than is normal in the UK (which does not yet have a right to freedom of speech).
We let quite a lot of controversial stuff through, in the interests of discussion. When things go too far though(and that's a judgment that varies from person to person), usually it is brought to our attention. In the case above, I believe there was a complaint from another member. Don't take it too hard, it's not that uncommon. Various actions can be taken. Usually the posts in question are deleted, I usually just remove/edit the offending text, in the worst cases the thread is closed and/or the members concerned penalized or removed.
jktwest's recent comments about European waters being "fished out" are not far off the mark. Conservation and sustainability is on most spearos' and anglers' minds these days.
The volunteer staff are inclined to keep this forum "on the straight and narrow", it's a respectable site. Having lived in the US of A for a number of years, I have learnt to value freedom of speech more than is normal in the UK (which does not yet have a right to freedom of speech).
We let quite a lot of controversial stuff through, in the interests of discussion. When things go too far though(and that's a judgment that varies from person to person), usually it is brought to our attention. In the case above, I believe there was a complaint from another member. Don't take it too hard, it's not that uncommon. Various actions can be taken. Usually the posts in question are deleted, I usually just remove/edit the offending text, in the worst cases the thread is closed and/or the members concerned penalized or removed.
jktwest's recent comments about European waters being "fished out" are not far off the mark. Conservation and sustainability is on most spearos' and anglers' minds these days.
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It would be nice if the poster of the deleted material got a specific explanation with a solid reason so he can start to understand why and can adapt / correct his / her post.
I think the sensitivity to post deletions is a measurement of the tension within and or bestowed upon us. I'm sure people can imagine what bizarre and violent actions may result from those suppressed emotions resulted from (percieved) violated human rights.
Also people who cling on fragile or false believes tent to have very long toes and are quick to flag undesirable posts as 'spam, terrorism', etc.
I think the sensitivity to post deletions is a measurement of the tension within and or bestowed upon us. I'm sure people can imagine what bizarre and violent actions may result from those suppressed emotions resulted from (percieved) violated human rights.
Also people who cling on fragile or false believes tent to have very long toes and are quick to flag undesirable posts as 'spam, terrorism', etc.
Further to Mr Xs post, I would like state that Deeper Blue forums does not & will not support illegal pursuits.
The thread in question was not deleted because Geoff likes to go night diving to spear fish, there are plenty of members who participate in such activities where it is legal to do so. Night spearing is not a problem to us however, the thread was deleted because there were several issues relating to illegal pursuits "including night spearing in Spain".
Also Geoff was not the only contributor admitting to other forms of illegal activities, all involved were sent PMs explaining the situation.
Geoff has not been baned in any form, he is welcome to continue posting on our forum.
Finally I would like to point out this case was discussed by the staff before any decisions were made.
The thread in question was not deleted because Geoff likes to go night diving to spear fish, there are plenty of members who participate in such activities where it is legal to do so. Night spearing is not a problem to us however, the thread was deleted because there were several issues relating to illegal pursuits "including night spearing in Spain".
Also Geoff was not the only contributor admitting to other forms of illegal activities, all involved were sent PMs explaining the situation.
Geoff has not been baned in any form, he is welcome to continue posting on our forum.
Finally I would like to point out this case was discussed by the staff before any decisions were made.
Hi Kars. I
am replying to your reply on this site because (A) I am too thick to work out how to send a "PM" (B) I want other members to "See" my relpy
. The post in question refered
to me using
a "Torch" to "Night Fish" this technique is "Ilegal
" here in Spain. presumable to stop people taking
too many (although I have personally
seen the trawlers "Ditch" many tonnes of dead fish at sea, that do not meat the regs, also, when they do "land" them, if the price at auction is too low they dump them in the rubbish bins and pour motor oil over them to stop them being taken). I fish at night because there are very little fish to be seen during
the day. I take about two/three fish a week during
June/ Sept. Mr. X, hi! Would this person who made the "complaint" like to express his/her veiws
in the open? some how, I don't
think so! Keep safe all,...Geoff
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A forum like this is really best managed to follow the 'letter of the law'.
Simply - how would it be if such posts came to the attention of zealous 'authorities' - who then Subpoena'd DB for your personal information in order to find where you dive and observe your activities? Unlikely as it may be for our little freediving activity - it does happen for other things.
Such posts place DB in an awkward position - as sometimes it is illegal to NOT report a crime one has knowlege of.
It think it is fine to complain about laws you feel are unfair - but unwise to describe activities in which you willfully violate those laws in online forums.
I say this with respect - Spearfishing laws here in my state - Michigan, are ridiculous. In fact - with our stressed economy the state could benefit from the tourism. Can you imagine if, every fall, we could have freshwater 'bluewater' spearfishing tournaments for Salmon! (Salmon do not reproduce in the great lakes - they are planted 'put and take' fish which die off in the tens of thousands every fall!! You can snag, grab and club them - but spearing is illegal!!) I could go on....
Simply - how would it be if such posts came to the attention of zealous 'authorities' - who then Subpoena'd DB for your personal information in order to find where you dive and observe your activities? Unlikely as it may be for our little freediving activity - it does happen for other things.
Such posts place DB in an awkward position - as sometimes it is illegal to NOT report a crime one has knowlege of.
It think it is fine to complain about laws you feel are unfair - but unwise to describe activities in which you willfully violate those laws in online forums.
I say this with respect - Spearfishing laws here in my state - Michigan, are ridiculous. In fact - with our stressed economy the state could benefit from the tourism. Can you imagine if, every fall, we could have freshwater 'bluewater' spearfishing tournaments for Salmon! (Salmon do not reproduce in the great lakes - they are planted 'put and take' fish which die off in the tens of thousands every fall!! You can snag, grab and club them - but spearing is illegal!!) I could go on....
Hi Geoff,
This is a rule across the board for everybody, no matter where they come from. If anybody mentions that they are doing something illegal, we simply delete it as DB doesn't want to promote illegal activities for obvious reasons.
This is a rule across the board for everybody, no matter where they come from. If anybody mentions that they are doing something illegal, we simply delete it as DB doesn't want to promote illegal activities for obvious reasons.
Free speech? This is what Geoff posted:
As far as breaking the law here is concerned, well, I'm afraid I have to (I use a torch at night) it realy is the only way that I can catch any fish worth catching. They spend the night in a cave which makes it possible for me to spear them, during the day, they go too deep for me (6 mtrs +) I can go to around 7/8 mtrs, but can only spend about 10 seconds there. Also, as soon as they see me, they're off! but the torch light seems to make them "freeze". Sorry if I upset any of you, but I am the hunter and I will use any tools (except explosives!)
My humble comment:
1) Based on your own confession, you're more a poacher than a hunter.
No offense intended, just a fact: people doing what you do are properly known and properly named as "poachers".
2) If you enjoy spearfishing, learn to spearfish.
Using shortcuts, illegal or not, will get you some fish but no real satisfaction, nor pride or self esteem. It is so satisfacory to achieve your goals from commitment and effort, improving your own skills from step to step, to learn from mistakes and continuous discovery, to make progress along the hard way, till one beautiful day you'll realize how good you've become and be proud of yourself.
3) As you remember, I was the first one to post a reply in the thread you started and that's been now deleted.
You asked a question and I, very respectfully, told you these exact words: "If it's illegal, don't do it".
I should have added a few more words such as: "if you choose to do it illegally, don't come bragging here because Deeperblue is not a community of poachers".
4) In my honest opinion, there's no need to cry free speech here. Don't be a poacher, don't brag with it, and you'll be welcome in this forum.
As far as breaking the law here is concerned, well, I'm afraid I have to (I use a torch at night) it realy is the only way that I can catch any fish worth catching. They spend the night in a cave which makes it possible for me to spear them, during the day, they go too deep for me (6 mtrs +) I can go to around 7/8 mtrs, but can only spend about 10 seconds there. Also, as soon as they see me, they're off! but the torch light seems to make them "freeze". Sorry if I upset any of you, but I am the hunter and I will use any tools (except explosives!)
My humble comment:
1) Based on your own confession, you're more a poacher than a hunter.
No offense intended, just a fact: people doing what you do are properly known and properly named as "poachers".
2) If you enjoy spearfishing, learn to spearfish.
Using shortcuts, illegal or not, will get you some fish but no real satisfaction, nor pride or self esteem. It is so satisfacory to achieve your goals from commitment and effort, improving your own skills from step to step, to learn from mistakes and continuous discovery, to make progress along the hard way, till one beautiful day you'll realize how good you've become and be proud of yourself.
3) As you remember, I was the first one to post a reply in the thread you started and that's been now deleted.
You asked a question and I, very respectfully, told you these exact words: "If it's illegal, don't do it".
I should have added a few more words such as: "if you choose to do it illegally, don't come bragging here because Deeperblue is not a community of poachers".
4) In my honest opinion, there's no need to cry free speech here. Don't be a poacher, don't brag with it, and you'll be welcome in this forum.
Those are great points and more can be found in FAQ when we all came on board;
DeeperBlue.net Ltd. or its assigned agents also reserves the right to prohibit or delete discussions that are thought to violate applicable law or that may be harmful to other members, the sites that comprise DeeperBlue.net, or the rights of DeeperBlue.net Ltd. or others. That said, DeeperBlue.net does not have the practical ability to restrict conduct or communications that might violate these Guidelines or the Terms of Service prior to transmission on AOL or the Web, nor can we ensure prompt removal of offending discussion forum posts.
I just want to say that I fully support the unpaid hard work our Mods do on a day to day basis, I agree with the rules completely .
All the best, Don Paul
Thanks everyone for this good conversation.
To Geoff, I hope you see it's nothing personal.
Actually after taking some time and thought I think it's helpful to erase your illegal activity confession, protecting you from the Spanish authorities who really can use some cash at the moment btw.
I think with some practice you too can become comfortable and enjoy long dives at -10m or even deeper. I volunteer to you to help you in this. I don't know which side of Spain you are, but maybe I'll visit Spain this year again in the North-west and maybe even south-west to meet family and a cool Spanish freediving friend for some deepdiving and spearfishing.
Oh and in my country spearfishing is not allowed at all - go figure!
To Geoff, I hope you see it's nothing personal.
Actually after taking some time and thought I think it's helpful to erase your illegal activity confession, protecting you from the Spanish authorities who really can use some cash at the moment btw.
I think with some practice you too can become comfortable and enjoy long dives at -10m or even deeper. I volunteer to you to help you in this. I don't know which side of Spain you are, but maybe I'll visit Spain this year again in the North-west and maybe even south-west to meet family and a cool Spanish freediving friend for some deepdiving and spearfishing.
Oh and in my country spearfishing is not allowed at all - go figure!
When someone puts years and $$$ into building a website for our perusal, it is not necessarily a democracy. Him with the gold, makes the rules. Luckily, you don't have to stay if you don't want to follow the rules on a site that costs you nothing.
this site costs YOU nothing because you dont contribute $ to it. i DO contribute to it, and as such we "contributors" should get some say in what gets deleted or whatever. i have had my posts deleted for containing curse words that appear in almost all movies without g-ratings. is that what this website is? g-rated? because spearfishing is atleast pg13. i would say. so all of you kindergardners who are offended by curse words or stories from other countries. maybe YOU should go to another site. maybe disney will create a cartoon website featuring lovable mickey mouse characters for all you sensitive types. i myself would prefer a site for 13 and up age group, as this is probably the minimum age of anyone on this site. and certainly should be the minimum age of anyone spearfishing without parental guidance. and when you "ante up" and pay for this site, your opinion will be duly noted. till then, stick with the disney movies. this world is a tough place and anyone over 13 who is so offended by an occaisonal curse, must have an awful time existing in it without getting offended by everything they see. besides: who gave you the RIGHT not to be offended anyway? there are alot of things that offend me: pollution, killing whales for meat, purse seiners who kill whole schools of fish, oil drilling in the ocean near me. with all of that going on daily, the best you can do is comment about someone elses stories or (dare i suggest) the "S" word.? grow the "f" up or atleast ante the"f" up, and EARN your right to have an opinion, since you DONT have the right NOT to be offended. if that WAS the case, then you would not even be allowed to post at all, because I am offended by your lack of contribution to this site. what about that? or is it only YOU who has this right?
The term here was 'Illegal' not 'Free Speech'.
I think it's pretty clear what precisely you pay for when you become a supporter - some extra storage and a few bells and whistles.
I've seen nothing that gives you right to the violate or dictate the forum rules in exchange for your donation. It's also understood that moderation is at the discretion of the the forum host. You agreed to that when you signed up - as indicated above.
It's not a corporation where you own shares - it's a website where you can donate to help maintain it AS IT IS (presumeably because you like it) and, in exchange - get some added functionality in your account.
If you want a 'harsh language and freediving forum' or a 'poaching forum' - start one and make your own rules.
To Summarize: You Agreed to the rules - and implicitly to the Forum Host's interpretation of those rules - when you agreed to the conditions stated for participating in this forum. WHICH CONDITIONS DO NOT GRANT YOU THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THEM OR INTERPRET THEM AT YOUR OWN CONVENIENCE . Financial donations in no way change those conditions or your relationship to them.
It is not about what does or does not offend you or I. It is about what is deemed a violation of the Forum Rules as interpreted by the Forum Host and his designated moderators.
Disclaimer: I am not a moderator or a financial contributor to this site. If I did contribute who knows - I might might decide it gives me the right to post pictures of my naked troll doll collection performing unnatural acts with a coelacanth and then whine like a spoiled school girl when my post got deleted.
I think it's pretty clear what precisely you pay for when you become a supporter - some extra storage and a few bells and whistles.
I've seen nothing that gives you right to the violate or dictate the forum rules in exchange for your donation. It's also understood that moderation is at the discretion of the the forum host. You agreed to that when you signed up - as indicated above.
It's not a corporation where you own shares - it's a website where you can donate to help maintain it AS IT IS (presumeably because you like it) and, in exchange - get some added functionality in your account.
If you want a 'harsh language and freediving forum' or a 'poaching forum' - start one and make your own rules.
To Summarize: You Agreed to the rules - and implicitly to the Forum Host's interpretation of those rules - when you agreed to the conditions stated for participating in this forum. WHICH CONDITIONS DO NOT GRANT YOU THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THEM OR INTERPRET THEM AT YOUR OWN CONVENIENCE . Financial donations in no way change those conditions or your relationship to them.
It is not about what does or does not offend you or I. It is about what is deemed a violation of the Forum Rules as interpreted by the Forum Host and his designated moderators.
Disclaimer: I am not a moderator or a financial contributor to this site. If I did contribute who knows - I might might decide it gives me the right to post pictures of my naked troll doll collection performing unnatural acts with a coelacanth and then whine like a spoiled school girl when my post got deleted.
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Jt,
me I'm not a mickey mouse sensitive type. But if anyone posts about powerheading a prohibited species, I know for sure it cannot stay in this forum for so many reasons that would be too long to tell.
So far I've been liking your spearfishing and gun building posts, and I consider you an interesting character.
But why do you have to get so upset if we edit an F word or lock a discussion where everyone seems to be expressing an uncontrollable urge to confess illegal activities?
Easy.
And about Erik's contribution, he was here before you and before me. Check his join date and posts count. He is one of the old guard who BUILT this community from nothing. Nobody told you or anyone else to piss off, nobody has been banned from this forum for YEARS (except the spammers). So I can't see how you feel you can give the piss off badge to a member like Erik. This out of my chest.
Let me chime in here.
As the person who founded and setup this site, pays for it monthly (advertising and supporters only pay a fraction of the cost of running this site) and ultimately set the rules I wanted to make a few things clear.
The rules are laid out clearly when you joined the forum. They are always available to you in the FAQ (DeeperBlue Forums - FAQ: DeeperBlue.net Forum FAQ) and form part of the contract between the site and yourself. In addition the privacy policy (FreeDiving, Scuba Diving, Spearfishing & Technical Diving Articles and News - DeeperBlue.com) and user agreement (FreeDiving, Scuba Diving, Spearfishing & Technical Diving Articles and News - DeeperBlue.com) help spell out the legal basis we operate on.
In case it isn't clear but this is a private membership site.
Your membership is conditional on you obeying the rules. The volunteer moderators (they are volunteers and get no financial compensation for helping out) are representatives of the site and have total authority to enforce the rules. There are different levels of staff here based on experience with the ultimate authority resting with me. Things get reported by members all the time (if you click on the report post/thread option) and the staff review, discuss and then decide to act on the report or not. It is not done on a whim and the group are very good at being fair across the board and enforcing the rules whilst encouraging discussion on the forums.
To the topic of why this post was deleted.
There is a very good reason and that is the poster openly stated that the activity they are doing is illegal. That is not an acceptable post and is in breach of the forum rules which were then enforced by the moderators.
Equally swearing is not permitted and the rule is that this is a PG-13 forum - even if the vast majority of posters are not 13, there are a large number of non-posters who just read the forums who are. That is the basis we choose to operate this forum on and how I expect members to behave.
There is a good reason why I implemented these rules over the history of this site, and that is we have been subject to several legal arguments and a lawsuit over the years. Luckily we've never had anything too serious happen but it is my duty to lay out the rules for the membership base to protect not only DeeperBlue.com but also the members (as there is legal precedent set that admitting to illegal activities online can result in prosecution). Equally as this is a moderated site DeeperBlue.com has a legal obligation to monitor posts/threads for illegal activity. If we do not remove the post we are liable and could be subject to prosecution as well.
One of our partner sites ScubaBoard is currently the subject of a serious lawsuit that threatens it's existence due to posts are illegal activity so this is a very real threat to the future of any site.
Ultimately this place is the extension of my home - and because of that I get to set the rules. If you choose to help contribute by being a supporter and helping reduce my outlay for this place then I always appreciate it but that does not give you any additional rights (as it is stated in the supporter details). Consider it like you've come to a party at my house and bring some food or drink to help reduce the costs for the host. You still need to obey the rules of that house.
I've moved this thread to the Suggestions and Feedback forum where it belongs rather in a sub-forum.
Finally - I am happy to discuss this with anyone, either publicly here, in private via a PM or you can email me on stephan.whelan@deeperblue.com.
Many thanks!
As the person who founded and setup this site, pays for it monthly (advertising and supporters only pay a fraction of the cost of running this site) and ultimately set the rules I wanted to make a few things clear.
The rules are laid out clearly when you joined the forum. They are always available to you in the FAQ (DeeperBlue Forums - FAQ: DeeperBlue.net Forum FAQ) and form part of the contract between the site and yourself. In addition the privacy policy (FreeDiving, Scuba Diving, Spearfishing & Technical Diving Articles and News - DeeperBlue.com) and user agreement (FreeDiving, Scuba Diving, Spearfishing & Technical Diving Articles and News - DeeperBlue.com) help spell out the legal basis we operate on.
In case it isn't clear but this is a private membership site.
Your membership is conditional on you obeying the rules. The volunteer moderators (they are volunteers and get no financial compensation for helping out) are representatives of the site and have total authority to enforce the rules. There are different levels of staff here based on experience with the ultimate authority resting with me. Things get reported by members all the time (if you click on the report post/thread option) and the staff review, discuss and then decide to act on the report or not. It is not done on a whim and the group are very good at being fair across the board and enforcing the rules whilst encouraging discussion on the forums.
To the topic of why this post was deleted.
There is a very good reason and that is the poster openly stated that the activity they are doing is illegal. That is not an acceptable post and is in breach of the forum rules which were then enforced by the moderators.
Equally swearing is not permitted and the rule is that this is a PG-13 forum - even if the vast majority of posters are not 13, there are a large number of non-posters who just read the forums who are. That is the basis we choose to operate this forum on and how I expect members to behave.
There is a good reason why I implemented these rules over the history of this site, and that is we have been subject to several legal arguments and a lawsuit over the years. Luckily we've never had anything too serious happen but it is my duty to lay out the rules for the membership base to protect not only DeeperBlue.com but also the members (as there is legal precedent set that admitting to illegal activities online can result in prosecution). Equally as this is a moderated site DeeperBlue.com has a legal obligation to monitor posts/threads for illegal activity. If we do not remove the post we are liable and could be subject to prosecution as well.
One of our partner sites ScubaBoard is currently the subject of a serious lawsuit that threatens it's existence due to posts are illegal activity so this is a very real threat to the future of any site.
Ultimately this place is the extension of my home - and because of that I get to set the rules. If you choose to help contribute by being a supporter and helping reduce my outlay for this place then I always appreciate it but that does not give you any additional rights (as it is stated in the supporter details). Consider it like you've come to a party at my house and bring some food or drink to help reduce the costs for the host. You still need to obey the rules of that house.
I've moved this thread to the Suggestions and Feedback forum where it belongs rather in a sub-forum.
Finally - I am happy to discuss this with anyone, either publicly here, in private via a PM or you can email me on stephan.whelan@deeperblue.com.
Many thanks!
have you been to a pg13 movie? they contain curse words. and not just for emphasis(like my occasional one) they are used with mean spirits, referrals to sex of all sorts, and even aimed at people on a personal level. none of which applies to my usage. can you please explain why you and other moderators keep using the pg13 analogy when clearly what you are after is a G rating. and since you dont seem to know the difference ,(sorry but it appears that way to me) let me tell you, G rated movies are for little kids and religeous fanatics. noone else bothers with them.pg13 movies DO contain curse words, and they are for(imagine this) 13 year olds and up. so which is it that you are after? is this site (with all the bloody fish pics and stories) really aimed at 12 year olds and under? i dont think it is, and i think that you know it isnt and thats why you use the pg13 analogy instead of G. i would venture to guess even YOU know that stories of killing things dont get allowed into g rated movies. no bloody deck pics, or anything like that would ever make it into a g rated movie. and that IS a fact! also when you consider how many people we ALL offend in the first place, by even choosing to kill fish with spearguns at all- offends your average person alot more than our use of a curse word. how do you reconcile that with your pusuit of a g-rated website of fish killing- complete with bloody pics and all, really isnt a reality, since most people would be far more offended by our stories content of struggling and bleeding fish, complete with the danger of our sport (sharks- and shallow water blackout) if you factor that in then you would have to concede that our site already IS pg 13, maybe even R rated already even WITHOUT the curse words. so the addition of them really doesnt make this site any more offensive to anyone EXCEPT a religeous fanatic (who would be the only person hypocritical enough to be concievably offended by a curse word in a story about death complete with pictures featuring blood? that IS ridiculous and i think you are smart enough to know it too, from what i do know about you,(based on your posts etc.) btw: thanks for creating this site regardless of the hypocrisy currently employed on it. i actually Do like this site. and as a decent gun builder, and almost 20 year veteran of spearfishing who has taken out numerous spearos from db on my boat to go spearfishing with me (7 so far, plus i just gave out 2 more invites to newbies from florida looking for buddies) so i AM a real contributor to this site and the members on it. i dont just bitch and moan (is the "b" word allowed? i would sure hate to have 5 minutes of my typing erased by an offended zealot with a misguided reality complex. i guess i will find out soon enough. some people just use this "im offended" routine as some sort of pastime or sport. i would suggest that those people use the time to actually take a db member out and show him the sport or just use the time to go to work and then donate the money to a charity like the japanese nuclear fiasco going on now. or the gulf oil spill from my fav. oil company british petroleum, now those things ARE offensive by anyones standards (with an I.Q. over 40) lets start with that and work our way down to cursing in pg13 movies and the websites with comparable rating (as you suggest)
As I asked before JTKWEST, why do you feel so passionately that you need to be able to swear?
What do you lose by not being able to?
You'll also find that any concerns you raise are taken a lot more seriously if you take the time not to write in such a confrontational and aggressive manner.
All that succeeds in doing is getting on people's nerves which makes it far less likely that they will pay any head to the issue you are trying to raise.
What do you lose by not being able to?
You'll also find that any concerns you raise are taken a lot more seriously if you take the time not to write in such a confrontational and aggressive manner.
All that succeeds in doing is getting on people's nerves which makes it far less likely that they will pay any head to the issue you are trying to raise.
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