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Omer quitting Pneumatic Spearguns

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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popgun pete

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Jul 30, 2008
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Yes, it is common practice to have names on removable inserts, although in recent years guns have been churned out for many “brands” in different markets as part of the business/marketing strategy. The Apnea Amarok gun has appeared under a range of names in different countries and Salvimar have done it with some of their guns. I never saw too many people using the Omer pneumatics, the die-hard band gun users were not interested and Mares Sten’s/Cyrano’s and Salvimar were the preferred pneumatic guns.
 

popgun pete

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Speaking of molded in details I note that maximum pressure of 30 bar is displayed on the nose cone and the rear bulkhead section that the rear handle attaches to. The line release lever is rather small and not sprung loaded, so needs to be swung back after the shot to make sure the trigger does not remain partially depressed. Otherwise problems!
Omer Airbalete operation.jpg

Omer Airbalete mech.jpg
 
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Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
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The line release may be spring loaded in the airbalete but definitely not on the One Air. I think that’s one of the minor differences. But yes, it’s short and I’ve since made my own, longer version.
Yep to max. 30 bar, too.


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popgun pete

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There do not appear to be any exploded parts diagrams for the Omer Airbalete handle spearguns on the Internet that I can find, although dealer and repair centres should have them. The handbook for the Omer XII had nothing much in it, a few photos on how to use the gun, remove the handle and pump it up, etc.
 

Diving Gecko

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Jun 24, 2008
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Did you order and receive one?
If so, can you check the pump for me, please. Turns out that mine, when fully depressed still has about 10-15mm of dead space. In other words, the seal of the pump sits about 10-15mm inside from the end when the handle is fully pushed. I am taking my One Air out for a spin these days and need to put some more air in it but it's not easy to get to 30 bar with that much dead space.

I could probably make it work better with: A). An insert to take up the dead space, B). Pull the handle off, insert a spacer in the handle and glue it back on or C). Cut a bit of the pump barrel off from the end but might need to re-thread it then for the bushing which stops the rod and piston pulling out.
I am leaning towards option B)...
 
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popgun pete

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Jul 30, 2008
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Did you order and receive one?
If so, can you check the pump for me, please. Turns out that mine, when fully depressed still has about 10-15mm of dead space. In other words, the seal of the pump sits about 10-15mm inside from the end when the handle is fully pushed. I am taking my One Air out for a spin these days and need to put some more air in it but it's not easy to get to 30 bar with that much dead space.

I could probably make it work better with: A). An insert to take the dead space, B). Pull the handle off, insert a spacer in the handle and glue it back on or C). Cut a bit of the pump barrel off from the end but might need to re-thread it then for the bushing which stops the rod and piston pulling out.
I am leaning towards option B)...
I have ordered an "One Air", the "Air XII" was in a local dive store and had just been delivered for someone else, and I saw it while it was being checked out. My interest was in the box as you usually only see already unpacked guns on display in the store's gun racks. As pneumatic guns often turn up in polythene bags it was good to see one in a proper box from the factory. I will check the hand pump when my gun arrives, I bought it from Scubastore as they had it marked down, but the delivery time is uncertain with COVID-19 restrictions. I only bought it to check out the triple chamber tank.

Rather than cut the pump barrel down just fit a spacer inside it with a hole drilled through it using a tiny drill or you can fit a tight fitting cylinder with a thin scratch line on one side to let air past. A spacer can be turned down out of plastic such as Delrin rod.
 
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Diving Gecko

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Jun 24, 2008
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I have ordered an "One Air", the "Air XII" was in a local dive store and had just been delivered for someone else, and I saw it while it was being checked out. My interest was in the box as you usually only see already unpacked guns on display in the store's gun racks. As pneumatic guns often turn up in polythene bags it was good to see one in a proper box from the factory. I will check the hand pump when my gun arrives, I bought it from Scubastore as they had it marked down, but the delivery time is uncertain with COVID-19 restrictions. I only bought it to check out the triple chamber tank.

Rather than cut the pump barrel down just fit a spacer inside it with a hole drilled through it using a tiny drill or you can fit a tight fitting cylinder with a thin scratch line on one side to let air past. A spacer can be turned down out of plastic such as Delrin rod.

Yeah, spacer was Option A:). I actually did that for a bit yesterday. I had one of the 3D printed line releases that I cut down and inserted, but then I remembered I printed it out of PLA which goes soft around 60C and I didn't want it to migrate into the inlet valve. I did find a machine shop close to here that could probably make me one out of alu or delrin for a few bucks. Also, I was way too generous with the 10-15mm, it's more 6-8mm. Still, for the short time I did use the PLA spacer, it made a noticeable difference.
 

popgun pete

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My interest in the triple chamber tank is that I think it would be a good tank for the "Dreamair", just needs a guide track glued on top. Much easier than building up that carbon fiber version which would have to be more time consuming than making say a C4, with a commensurate increase in the production cost! If C4’s cost a grand then you could probably double or triple it for a “Dreamair”.
 
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DuncM

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Jul 13, 2014
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Did you order and receive one?
If so, can you check the pump for me, please. Turns out that mine, when fully depressed still has about 10-15mm of dead space. In other words, the seal of the pump sits about 10-15mm inside from the end when the handle is fully pushed.

Hi Gecko I just had a look at the two I have, one has 7mm dead space and the other has 5mm
 
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Diving Gecko

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Hi Gecko I just had a look at the two I have, one has 7mm dead space and the other has 5mm

Thanks for checking;-)
Not ideal at all but I guess not too hard to fix;-)


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popgun pete

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My Sporasub "One Air" arrived today. It was sent in an outer heavy duty shipping box, provided by Scubastore, which enclosed an inner brown cardboard box provided by Sporasub and sealed all around its mid-line by a wide blue, black printed security tape. The gun and its accessories were inside a clear plastic and black cloth carry bag that lay inside the inner box. These bags are really for carrying your gun from the store rather than a long term gun carry bag as that clear soft plastic is not very long lived. The gun was in its own clear sealed throwaway polythene packing bag with a label sticker proclaiming “Made in Taiwan”, so that confirms what had been supposed earlier. Hand pump and loader were in a separate polythene bag with the tail stop-less spear just loose in the carry bag, but fitted with a tip cover.
 
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Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
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My Sporasub "One Air" arrived today. It was sent in an outer heavy duty shipping box, provided by Scubastore, which enclosed an inner brown cardboard box provided by Sporasub and sealed all around its mid-line by a wide blue, black printed security tape. The gun and its accessories were inside a clear plastic and black cloth carry bag that lay inside the inner box. These bags are really for carrying your gun from the store rather than a long term gun carry bag as that clear soft plastic is not very long lived. The gun was in its own clear sealed throwaway polythene packing bag with a label sticker proclaiming “Made in Taiwan”, so that confirms what had been supposed earlier. Hand pump and loader were in a separate polythene bag with the tail stop-less spear just loose in the carry bag, but fitted with a tip cover.

Good info. Thanks and congrats on the gun.
I think you’ll clearly see the flash line of the four logo/name plate inserts, too.

Also, I’m beginning to think either the Italians under specced the material for the inlet valve or the Taiwanese swapped it. The inlet valve in these guns hold the transverse pin which holds the handle in place. But the valve is made from what I think is a plated steel of sorts but that plating is coming off on mine. Not only where the pin rubs against it but in spots all around it. Not cool.

ff47dc5eea0593805d4b4ba601f40e96.jpg


b03dec4c706f6aba081b4c45ff8f4a3d.jpg


e814c5360c694631dc2b9f2d95d67420.jpg


933b7bdfe0d7e8ce8978bc026c4049d4.jpg


Perhaps it’s nickel plated brass (I think that’s a thing?) as there’s some green buildup on the trigger pin bushing, too. Or maybe that bushing is brass and the valve is something else. Even the trigger pin itself looks a bit pitted.

Either way, they could have done this one differently.

For someone using this gun I propose they pop the handle off after each outing and give a good rinse. Any mentioning of this in the manual, Pete?

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popgun pete

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Jul 30, 2008
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I have not looked in the Sporasub manual yet, but the rear handle needs to come off unless you give it a long soak in a tub of freshwater after every use. Historically inlet valve bodies in Italian pneumatic guns were chrome plated brass, in fact if you pulled a gun apart the hidden parts of chrome plating often flaked off because they just used flash plating straight onto the brass. Now the Taiwanese and Chinese often use their “initiative” and make harmless running changes which can be anything but, however there is no way of knowing what the specs really are, or should be. Sporasub by contracting out their gun production basically abdicated their control of the product while pulling in the bigger dollars for what buyers thought were Italian guns.

Just looking at your photos if the trigger actuating/transmission pin is plated then that is really bad news. Any pins that reciprocate through rubber seals need to be smooth and stainless steel otherwise if the finish deteriorates then the scars in the plating will tear up the pressure seal and cause leaks. In fact a plated pin in that location is plain stupid.
Airbalete or One Air mech.jpg

Note that the rearmost seal is not influenced by pressure, while the inner one is as it is facing into the pressure chamber. If the end of the transmission pin corrodes and damages the outer seal then the gun will not leak, but salty water will wick in along the transmission shaft between the two rubber seals. After a period the shaft will corrode and during shooting will damage the inner seal and then the gun will leak pressurized air. For increased reliability this shaft should be changed to stainless steel.
 
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DivingNomad

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Sep 21, 2015
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All Omer guns I have bought since 2018 (lots of them) were made in China except for the carbon gun which was made in Italy with parts, including mechanism, made in China. You can feel that they are chintzy and not "solid" as other brand guns made in Europe or US.
 
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Diving Gecko

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Jun 24, 2008
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All Omer guns I have bought since 2018 (lots of them) were made in China except for the carbon gun which was made in Italy with parts, including mechanism, made in China. You can feel that they are chintzy and not "solid" as other brand guns made in Europe or US.

"Chintzy"... haha, someone has been watching AvE on youtube;)?

I find a lot of the bigger, well known Euro brands rather flimsy these days. Of the biggest brands, I actually think Salvi are amongst a few to go the other way. They are beefing up wall thicknesses (I think) and their plastic parts are amongst the sturdiest I've seen. I don't know if they use more glassfibre in their nylon or it's just the result of beefier parts, but the impression is a positive one. The handle on my buddy's metal gun is vastly stiffer than the Cayman handles - which you can actually flex just by the force of your hands. That said, Salvi certainly don't get everything right but at least they are trying. Can't say I feel like Omer has been doing much trying for some years now.

The Omer carbon gun, you mentioned, which one is that?
 

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,698
458
188
[...]
Just looking at your photos if the trigger actuating/transmission pin is plated then that is really bad news. Any pins that reciprocate through rubber seals need to be smooth and stainless steel otherwise if the finish deteriorates then the scars in the plating will tear up the pressure seal and cause leaks. In fact a plated pin in that location is plain stupid.
[...]

As for the trigger pin, I realized within the last few months or so, that I am getting old... I can't actually see stuff very well close up any longer. I wear contacts for my near-sightedness and seems like I have now lost some range or sorts. Need reading glasses, haha:).
Anyways, wanted to say that I'll try to have a look again in the morning before I pop in my lenses. But yeah, looking at that blown-up pic it does look plated... I hope it is "just" pitting because as you say, it would be plain stupid to not just use SS. It's cheap as chips in those small sizes anyways.

BTW, if any of you are taking your trigger out of the handle for inspection, remember to pull the trigger transmission pin all the way forward first (the one that runs forward to interface with the trigger pin in your drawing above). If you don't pull it forward, the rear end will still be inside the trigger cassette and will bend if you try to force the cassette out. And yes, it's one of those "ask me how I know" deals... Just happened the other day after having popper out the trigger plenty of times before.
 
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popgun pete

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Jul 30, 2008
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All the sliding pressure boundary crossing pins in previous pneumatic guns have been stainless steel, but because this pin is thicker than usual the Taiwanese have figured that they can substitute brass because here it is unlikely to bend. What they don't realize and the Italians would is that this component needs to stay smooth. Now if you thick chrome plated a pin that would work OK, but you have to control the tolerances and that is why you use stainless steel. By using thin plating you don't have to worry about tolerances, but then you encounter durability problems with corrosive pitting. Guns that were continually washed and lubricated will survive longer, but this is the Achilles heel of the whole range of these guns. We also know guns have rusted internally, so what other surprises lurk within? This is what happens when you have no tradition of speargun making and no idea of material requirements for marine conditions. Early guns probably had stainless steel transmission pins and then someone had a “bright” idea to lower the cost.
IMG-20180805-_WA0028.jpg
 
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