Omer XXV Speargun + Other Fast tracking guns?

[Fondueset]

Band manufacturors say you should never stretch them more than 300%. We contacted one of the major manufactors that supplies bands to speargun companies. They told us if we really want to learn about bands there is one industry that has done much more research in this area than any other.

Any guesses?

 

[spaghetti]

Band manufacturors say you should never stretch them more than 300%. We contacted one of the major manufactors that supplies bands to speargun companies. They told us if we really want to learn about bands there is one industry that has done much more research in this area than any other.

Any guesses?

Omer?

I agree with you Fondue (and BTW, congratz for you last purchase ). If bands are cut too short they loose accuracy and "progressivity". It gives the impression they give a hell of a punch initially, but the stretching is too jerky after all, which means a worse shot.
But Mundial's length is not so short after all. On a 90 they recommend 52-54 cm for circular bands, he cut 3cm so now it's 51, just a very little bit shorter than the recommended length. If we look at his pics and read his stories they're still accurate so nothing's wrong.

 

[Fondueset]

Bull Castration:inlove


Check this beauty out on ebay:
[ame="http://cgi.ebay.com/Omer-Custom-Master-America-115cm-Nearly-New-Speargun_W0QQitemZ170095912390QQcategoryZ47353QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]Unusual Omer Master America on Ebay[/ame]

 

[mundial]

Band manufacturors say you should never stretch them more than 300%. We contacted one of the major manufactors that supplies bands to speargun companies. They told us if we really want to learn about bands there is one industry that has done much more research in this area than any other.
Any guesses?

hi i put a circular band suggested chart from adrenaline-online
it show the 16mm & 20 MM
so i take it in the middle beacuse i use 18 mm
look that i am on the good range if you look at the 90 cm guns
54 cm band with 6 cm dyneema cord = 60 cm powerband
it is strong & accurate

 

[Fondueset]

I'm assuming you use a single band on your 90, Mundial - what would you say it's effective range is?

One of the things the tech we spoke with said was that very little hard research has actually been done into band performance in spearguns - while evidently quite a bit has been done in using them to castrate bulls!! In fact he said the bull castration business is where the greatest expertise in band performance is.

 

[mundial]

from what i understood there is 1 big manufactore for rubber bands
called LATEX USA , he make almost for all the companies in the market
companies such as OMER or CRESSI have their bands made from this one
LATEX USA make for them the bands & also marked them with their logos

as a mater of fact i use i circular band
i can say 4 m is the top range for me
most fish i shot from 1 to 3 m aprrox

interesting the fack of bull castration

 

[Old Man Dave]

I'm assuming you use a single band on your 90, Mundial - what would you say it's effective range is? QUOTE]

Chris, hopefully if the weather clears up Ed and I are gonna test a few guns on targets, this weekend. We've got a handful of euro 90's, with and without rails and of course including my new XXV Gold, a euro 75, my euro/wood hybrid 90 and a couple of woodies of 85cm and 100cm plus 2 mamba 90's.

Range wise I think the mambas will smoke the others but I think the omer will do well and despite the mambas flat tragectory I still find it hard to hit anything with one. Ed's big woody will also perform I suspect. Let you know the results as and when.

Dave

 

[Mr. X]

I wonder if it has to do with the shaft flexing when more of it is unsupported?

Yes it does. The spear needs to go beyond the end of the barrel on a normal rail-less gun in order to compensate for the droop that would otherwise occur in the middle - I believe this can cause "flutter" as the spear leaves the muzzle. I see some rail-less guns now offer an optional support for the middle of the barrel. Railguns are more tolerant of different spear lengths. However, I notice Rob Allen stick to traditional length spears & when I asked, they suggested not going more than about 10cm (if I recall correctly) off that.

Fondueset, I believe RA bulk rubber comes from the USA too, bull castrating capital of the world! (Thought you were going to say condoms). Do you know any good on-lines stores for ordering it?

BTW OMD/Foxfish -- hasn't the search for the ultimate all round speargun come to end with the 90cm Mamba? (Just been discussing that on the Ling Cod thread!). I guess not hitting anything would be a drawback. Is it an accuracy issue with the speargun, recoil or just a matter of getting used to it (the balance/flat trajectory)?

 

[Old Man Dave]

Tested the gun. Couldn't find a 15lb bass so had to make do. http://forums.deeperblue.net/641273-post456.html
Dave

 

[GreekDiver]

BTW OMD/Foxfish -- hasn't the search for the ultimate all round speargun come to end with the 90cm Mamba? (Just been discussing that on the Ling Cod thread!). I guess not hitting anything would be a drawback. Is it an accuracy issue with the speargun, recoil or just a matter of getting used to it (the balance/flat trajectory)?

Airguns require lots of practice. I couldnt hit anything when i first used it but now I'm pretty accurate. The spear goes very straight because its getting pushed from the back end. There is no flex in the spear once shot or lots of recoil. The power and range of mambatized gun is just not comparable to a band gun of its size.

 

[strangelove]

The power and range of mambatized gun is just not comparable to a band gun of its size.

Greekdiver
Is that true at any depth ? When I've last used air guns there was a big difference between shallow shots and deep shots.

 

[GreekDiver]

Greekdiver
Is that true at any depth ? When I've last used air guns there was a big difference between shallow shots and deep shots.

well i spear up to 80ft of water and it fires like a cannon. Im not knocking bandguns at all but they feel like peashooters when you fire a mamba with high pressure. I shot this grouper in the face with my 115 mamba (24 atm) and the shaft went thru the whole fish. I can load the gun over 24 atm but i dont see the need to since all fish end up on the mono. I load it quick and effortless now.

 

[Mr. X]

I need to get a second gun. Would like to get a shorter poor-vis. gun for the Dorset spring murk. Was hoping to get 70cm SA railgun but it has proven elusive. So thinking 75cm Cressi Commanche or 75cm Omer XXV (probably not the Gold)...or, having re-read this thread, perhaps the 82cm -- an 82cm would likely end up as my primary all round gun. I think 90cm is a bit much for the vis. I normally deal with &, anyway, I already have one. Was surprised Pav went with the 90cm rather than than 82 - but I think he dives in the clear waters of Cornwall a lot and anyway has a 75 already.

So - any updates or thoughts on the non-Gold version, size, etc.. Was looking at Apnea.co.uk in Jersey but it looks like Scubaland.fr offers much better prices & I just "joined". I'll need to co-opt the Frenchman I work with to get through the checkout form though. Oh, and they are both out of stock (our local Tesco's have the best prices when they have no stock too). Pity, there are several other items that I wanted to get at the same time.

Also, a bit confused by the single band/double band thing. So Omer say you can use 2 bands, so presumably the spear has 2 slots to accomodate double band? Spaghetti recommends against using double bands though - as the gun is too light or barrel too thin? Has anyone tried it? It's nice to have the option, even if not used. What rubber(s) come with it - 1x18mm bulk rubber? What size spear 6.5/6.6mm? Maybe a double 14mm (USA imperial band) or 16mm could be used? Act. I'm quite happy to use a single 16mm band with my 90cm RA railgun.

Also, was looking at buying some bulk rubber & found Omer bulk rubber at Apnea.co.uk. Would be happy with RA 16mm rubber but I seem to recall that for Omer, 18mm used to be the "the size to go for".

 

[Pastor]

You could try the really really really dark side and get a 90cm mid handle gun, that's the equivalent of a 60cm in your hand but all the usefulness of the 90

 

[foxfish]

I haven't seen a mid handled air gun for years
Funny how thing go around - a mamba Jaguar!

 

[Pastor]

With some of your mods you could knock up a mid/rear handle hybrid

 

[Mr. X]

You could try the really really really dark side and get a 90cm mid handle gun, that's the equivalent of a 60cm in your hand but all the usefulness of the 90

roflDon't mess with my head...I was finally getting round to making a decision. Too unconventional for me, I'm afraid. Even carbon is pushing it. 75cm non-gold or 82cm Gold (rail &, maybe, reel for abroad)?

 

[Marwan]

x i dont think the non gold version will be a bad choice, you wont get the full use of the rail anyway in that length and i dont believe the difference in maneuverability versus carbon in that size will be that noticeable, you could always install a reel if you need it..thats the practical side of it in my view..although the boys with toys logic will say "Go ahead mate Spoil yourself why not " ...
as for the 82, i think its a good size, what turned me off it personally was that its an odd size so i was a bit worried about the ease of sourcing spare stuff (bands shaft etc..) later down the road.. if you feel the 90 will be much for your viz, go for th 75...

 

[spaghetti]

Mr.X I think you must focus on what you really need. For what I read, I lean to think that you need a 75/77, but lets' talk about it.
Now what are YOU looking for?
1) Is it a second gun to alternate with your primary 90cm for low viz days?
2) OR is it a bit shorter MAIN gun since your 90 has shown to be too long most of the times?
In any case consider that the overall length of an 82/85 gun (considering also the shaft length) is just 5 centimeters shorter than a 90, so if you switch to an 82/85 you won't gain much, just 5 centimeters, for the visibility issue, while the shooting power and range will be inferior.
If I were in you fins I'd get a 75/77 and bring on always two guns, one clipped to your float, to alternate them according to visibility, terrain and tasks. Me I always bring on 3 (a 106, a 77 and a 60), which is probably not necessary in England (no pelagics and no holed-in fish). But anyway, you have that damn visibility issue, don't you? Believe me, bringing two guns, once you get used to it, is not annoying as you could think.
It's more annoying to argue with wife or work boss for taking a day off, travel to the sea, get dressed, get wet, and then finally realize that your only gun is too long/too short for the situation...

 

[Mr. X]

x i dont think the non gold version will be a bad choice, you wont get the full use of the rail anyway in that length and i dont believe the difference in maneuverability versus carbon in that size will be that noticeable, you could always install a reel if you need it..thats the practical side of it in my view..although the boys with toys logic will say "Go ahead mate Spoil yourself why not " ...
as for the 82, i think its a good size, what turned me off it personally was that its an odd size so i was a bit worried about the ease of sourcing spare stuff (bands shaft etc..) later down the road.. if you feel the 90 will be much for your viz, go for th 75...

Thanks Marwan, that makes a lot of sense. I'm not worried about 82cm being an odd size because (1) I think 80/82 is probably the best all round size for the UK (if there is such a thing) and (2) I plan to use bulk rubber once the screw-in's wear out.

I was initially looking for a short gun. I figured even 75cm was too similar to the 90 in size to make much difference, but I didn't want to go much shorter (based on various advice). So 70cm, a standard Rob Allen size, seemed ideal. However, I think a slightly longer XXV (or Comanche) would perform similarly as it is thinner & lighter; what it loses in compactness, it gains in range. OMD mentioned that the spear is shorter than usual too -- which would help keep it compact (although didn't he also say the gun was 5cm longer overall?!). However, maybe having several specialised guns is too much - I'd probably end up with 3 (90/80/70). I can only use one at time and will only want to carry one. So maybe I should go for 82cm -- that's what I planned to do when I started - and the XXV sounds like an excellent choice, if you're only going to use one gun. (And I can always get a 75/70/65/60 short gun later if the need remains apparent).