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OMER's NEW GUNS!!!
- Thread starterspaghetti
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
These new guns look real nice but I'm glad they are not getting rid of the Excalibur trigger just yet. I've had such good times with those triggers.
I have not had such good times with it's safety mech (Excalibur)...
Chris, I like your goal. It is true: in the Tao (8) "be like water".. (Hmm.. suppose that doesn't work with neoprene...)
Cool Mat Mas fin. I'd definitly go for a set of those; actually, my monofin is mat-mas. Not clear, but white.
Chris, I like your goal. It is true: in the Tao (8) "be like water".. (Hmm.. suppose that doesn't work with neoprene...)
Cool Mat Mas fin. I'd definitly go for a set of those; actually, my monofin is mat-mas. Not clear, but white.
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Brianna,
I hope you had finally received the safety removal button for your Excalibur I mailed you this past summer. The Excalibur safety button has 3 positions:
O - out
Fish symbol - Fire
fish with a strike through - SAFETY
If you accidently move it to the "O" position, the spring loaded safety can pop out. Because we are required by law to put safeties in the guns (but we know a lot of spearfisherman hate them) we make it easy to pull it out. And in the Excalibur inadvertently many new users make the mistake of popping it out.
The other side effect is that, once out, if one doesn't know how much of a hair trigger the Exc. safety has they tend to pull it all the way back into the trigger housing, and the safety now removed can cause the trigger to get stuck in the back of the housing.
Moral of the story, only pull the safety out on accident or if you know what you're doing
Hope this clears things up.
-Mark
I hope you had finally received the safety removal button for your Excalibur I mailed you this past summer. The Excalibur safety button has 3 positions:
O - out
Fish symbol - Fire
fish with a strike through - SAFETY
If you accidently move it to the "O" position, the spring loaded safety can pop out. Because we are required by law to put safeties in the guns (but we know a lot of spearfisherman hate them) we make it easy to pull it out. And in the Excalibur inadvertently many new users make the mistake of popping it out.
The other side effect is that, once out, if one doesn't know how much of a hair trigger the Exc. safety has they tend to pull it all the way back into the trigger housing, and the safety now removed can cause the trigger to get stuck in the back of the housing.
Moral of the story, only pull the safety out on accident or if you know what you're doing
Hope this clears things up. -Mark
Few things I wanted to show your guys regarding the new Cayman handle and the technical features that it reaps over other lesser handles for 1-3 band guns.
I say this because typically 264lbs of pressure, which is the amount the new Cayman performs at 100% capability with, can be either two 18-20mm bands, or up to three 16mm bands, more than most Euro style guns ever use.
Typical configs for most divers are either a single 18mm-20mm band or 2
14mm (9/16" for you Hawaii guys who love those ), or two 16mm bands
(5/8")
I have big hands and while it seems smaller than the T-20 it fits perfectly well with the Ergonomic shaped grip it is supplied to in addition to the standard grip. The overall dimensions of the handle are smaller than both the Excalibur as well as the T-20 and it also comes stock with 2 different butt lengths on some models (simply pop out the back punch) to ease loading depending on one's preferences of butt length. This is in addition to two grips and for us in the US a rubber butt is also another option for comfortable loading with a thin tropical suit.
The Cayman Carbon and Cayman HF (Hydrofoiled Technology) also come stock with Match 50 reels and Sharkfin shafts with cheater tabs.
Pretty nice set ups. The old timer Omer fans will immediately remember the Master 16 from 97-99 production which was an elliptical shaped aluminum barrel. The new HF, in sizes up to 110, is similar but has a shaft guide or rail as some call them shaped into the aluminum stock.
I'll attach some pics and more info:
I say this because typically 264lbs of pressure, which is the amount the new Cayman performs at 100% capability with, can be either two 18-20mm bands, or up to three 16mm bands, more than most Euro style guns ever use.
Typical configs for most divers are either a single 18mm-20mm band or 2
14mm (9/16" for you Hawaii guys who love those
), or two 16mm bands (5/8")
I have big hands and while it seems smaller than the T-20 it fits perfectly well with the Ergonomic shaped grip it is supplied to in addition to the standard grip. The overall dimensions of the handle are smaller than both the Excalibur as well as the T-20 and it also comes stock with 2 different butt lengths on some models (simply pop out the back punch) to ease loading depending on one's preferences of butt length. This is in addition to two grips and for us in the US a rubber butt is also another option for comfortable loading with a thin tropical suit.
The Cayman Carbon and Cayman HF (Hydrofoiled Technology) also come stock with Match 50 reels and Sharkfin shafts with cheater tabs.
Pretty nice set ups. The old timer Omer fans will immediately remember the Master 16 from 97-99 production which was an elliptical shaped aluminum barrel. The new HF, in sizes up to 110, is similar but has a shaft guide or rail as some call them shaped into the aluminum stock.
I'll attach some pics and more info:
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Some other features of the handle are:
- The low profile reel mount on the Cayman puts the reel practically very close to the handle and out of the way of the shooting line thnks to the stainless side release
- The line router on the side moves the shooting line from the back of the shaft out of the way of the wishbone for loading. How many times does the shooting line get in the way in most handles while loading? One less quirk to deal with in the water.
- the new reel is the Match 50 with a different bracket to fit the Cayman. Same bronze bushing drag system as all the other Match reels. We should have our two speed Match 90 reel out sometime in 07 too!
- And one of the coolest things that was used in the XXV model last year but has been improved upon slightly for the Cayman series - The removable bridge to turn the Cayman muzzle into an Open OR Closed Muzzle depending on the user's preferences, ie. sharkfin shaft or notched shaft, clear line of sight having to wrap the line around the shaft Open Muzzle configuration VS just "throwen'er in there" and winding the line back to the line release. This is a SS bridge and we'll use a SS pin for longevity purposes if people are pulling them in and out all the time rather than the pictured one.
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the barrels are pretty sweet too, and never one really care for a shaft guide in Euro style guns one way or another, Omer did a nice job incorporating these into the mid-level price Cayman Alum gun, the Carbon barrel, and the HF aluminum elliptical barrel.
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in the name of the minority with no so much excess cash, I volunteer to offer good homes for those poor displaced, abandoned, neglected or misused T20s, Excalibur, etc.
I'm wondering if there are any dedicated in-line band gun users thinking of getting the Cayman? I know that the basic Cayman has in-line bands, but I think many of us, including myself, would be interested in trying the snazzy elliptical barrel of the Cayman HF. It's too bad the Cayman isn't offered with the multi-function muzzle of the XXV (i.e., allowing switching between in-line or circular band setups).
I have such a limited experience with the different kinds of guns out there, but I seem to aim better with the in-line bands instead of the circular, which is regarded as one of the virtues of the in-line band setup. I know that anyone could get used to either setup, through compensation. But I still like the idea of having in-line bands for my shorter (90cm) gun, which requires better aim since I'd be shooting smaller fish with it.
I'm nevertheless eager to purchase one of the Caymans to experience all of its innovations. I'm pondering on the possibility of getting the HF version and somehow changing its muzzle to one with in-line bands for my peace of mind. Or maybe I should just see how my aim is with the stock setup first...
Have any individuals out there switched between in-line and circular band setups, and feel that their aim is equally good with both? Or was there instead some adaptation necessary?
Thanks,
Kurt
Honolulu, HI
http://www.myspace.com/oldirtysurfer
*(Hey Mark, how about a discount or even a sponsorship for being a good "OMER whore"):
I have such a limited experience with the different kinds of guns out there, but I seem to aim better with the in-line bands instead of the circular, which is regarded as one of the virtues of the in-line band setup. I know that anyone could get used to either setup, through compensation. But I still like the idea of having in-line bands for my shorter (90cm) gun, which requires better aim since I'd be shooting smaller fish with it.
I'm nevertheless eager to purchase one of the Caymans to experience all of its innovations. I'm pondering on the possibility of getting the HF version and somehow changing its muzzle to one with in-line bands for my peace of mind. Or maybe I should just see how my aim is with the stock setup first...
Have any individuals out there switched between in-line and circular band setups, and feel that their aim is equally good with both? Or was there instead some adaptation necessary?
Thanks,
Kurt
Honolulu, HI
http://www.myspace.com/oldirtysurfer
*(Hey Mark, how about a discount or even a sponsorship for being a good "OMER whore"):
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Kurt, cool pictures. email them to me at mark@omerdiving.com and I'll have them throw them up on the site! that camo does some justice to the camo infidels below 30ft doesn't it?
First issue- we decided not to bring the XXV and XXV Gold last year for one simple reason. It was also advised by us from Omer in Italy that we didn't. those guns have 25mm (1") tubes compared to standard 28's (1 1/8" approx) tubes because they are designed for hunting in rough conditions in shallow water where the surge and the need for a gun that isn't battered by current and water flow can make it easy to point and aim quickly. The problem for our market, especially where you are Kurt, is the majority of Hawaiians like to use 2 9/16" bands abnd guys on the mainland as well would be tempted to add a second band. The trigger mechanism isn't the problem as its the same in our Cobra and t-20 line and its breaking strength 530lbs, it's the thinner od barrel which would flex more if overloaded. Therefore we opted not to give people the chance as realistically, the fast small quick fish in the shallows this gun is well suited for are a Mediterranean problem and not ours so much
The main difference you will find in relation to aiming a clozed muzzle in line set-up compared to an open muzzle isn't the accuracy as a result of the difference in angle of the bands, but the whiplash two loop bands create in the front of the gun during the shot compared to a smoother single in line band. So long as the former aren't too hard to load in a lighter gun you shouldn't notice any major discrepancies in aim also as long as the open muzzle bands are guided with a shaft-guide strait. And even without, in 100cm's gun with open muzzle, I can't personally testify to the difference. Overpowering is much greater a concern in the aim of lighter guns.
The Cayman Aluminum will be the only Cayman that comes with the closed muzzle for simplicity as the gun is aimed at entry level divers as well who don't need the extra hassle of the open muzzle. The Cayman HF and Carbon open muzzle will be available separately as a spare part for less than $30.
First issue- we decided not to bring the XXV and XXV Gold last year for one simple reason. It was also advised by us from Omer in Italy that we didn't. those guns have 25mm (1") tubes compared to standard 28's (1 1/8" approx) tubes because they are designed for hunting in rough conditions in shallow water where the surge and the need for a gun that isn't battered by current and water flow can make it easy to point and aim quickly. The problem for our market, especially where you are Kurt, is the majority of Hawaiians like to use 2 9/16" bands abnd guys on the mainland as well would be tempted to add a second band. The trigger mechanism isn't the problem as its the same in our Cobra and t-20 line and its breaking strength 530lbs, it's the thinner od barrel which would flex more if overloaded. Therefore we opted not to give people the chance as realistically, the fast small quick fish in the shallows this gun is well suited for are a Mediterranean problem and not ours so much
The main difference you will find in relation to aiming a clozed muzzle in line set-up compared to an open muzzle isn't the accuracy as a result of the difference in angle of the bands, but the whiplash two loop bands create in the front of the gun during the shot compared to a smoother single in line band. So long as the former aren't too hard to load in a lighter gun you shouldn't notice any major discrepancies in aim also as long as the open muzzle bands are guided with a shaft-guide strait. And even without, in 100cm's gun with open muzzle, I can't personally testify to the difference. Overpowering is much greater a concern in the aim of lighter guns.
The Cayman Aluminum will be the only Cayman that comes with the closed muzzle for simplicity as the gun is aimed at entry level divers as well who don't need the extra hassle of the open muzzle. The Cayman HF and Carbon open muzzle will be available separately as a spare part for less than $30.
Trigger mechanism values for the Cayman. Out of 9 European brand guns including our Excalibur and T20's it ranked the highest.
SPEARGUN TRIGGER MECHANISM VALUE TABLE
Model - Cayman
Band Pull force / Trigger Tension
154lbs 187lbs 231lbs 264lbs
70kg 85 Kg 105Kg 120Kg
2.2lb 2.2lb 2.64lb 2.86lb
1Kg 1Kg 1.2Kg 1.3Kg
Other interesting side notes about the barrels comparing 100cm models are; the HF is reportedly 7% stiffer than a 100cm Cobra (6 vertical laminates of teak) with a cobra stock weighing 850gr. compared to 367 of the same length HF. Pretty amazing considering it's half the weight.
No Spaghetti, the trigger is not the same as the T20, completely redesigned and entirely different from the Excalibur as well. The rake (angle of the handle) is similar to the T-20 with the difference being the aiming, higher relative position to the shaft, and the back of the butt curves down to support the top of the wrist while aiming. This last feature is cool. The handle is also reduced. Our Team divers like Rene Rojas for example didn't like the T-20 because it was too big for his hands, the fit is very universal now- especially with the ergonomic grip for Righties and Lefties (upon request).
It is also V'd for sighting so you can see the shaft all the way to the tip from behind the butt.
The HF's, because the internal volume of the aluminum creates so much buoyancy, is ballasted with lead inserts depending on the length (see attached). Pretty well thought out, My 110cm HF is neutral in the water w/ the stock 6.5m shaft. Balanced as well as a Cobra and it will be about half the price. The only grievance I have is they won't make it in a size bigger than 110cm. A pity considering the stiffness of the barrel important in longer guns.
This was a rehersal presentation for our dive shops you just witnessed At the end of the day I think the gun speaks for itself though.
SPEARGUN TRIGGER MECHANISM VALUE TABLE
Model - Cayman
Band Pull force / Trigger Tension
154lbs 187lbs 231lbs 264lbs
70kg 85 Kg 105Kg 120Kg
2.2lb 2.2lb 2.64lb 2.86lb
1Kg 1Kg 1.2Kg 1.3Kg
Other interesting side notes about the barrels comparing 100cm models are; the HF is reportedly 7% stiffer than a 100cm Cobra (6 vertical laminates of teak) with a cobra stock weighing 850gr. compared to 367 of the same length HF. Pretty amazing considering it's half the weight.
No Spaghetti, the trigger is not the same as the T20, completely redesigned and entirely different from the Excalibur as well. The rake (angle of the handle) is similar to the T-20 with the difference being the aiming, higher relative position to the shaft, and the back of the butt curves down to support the top of the wrist while aiming. This last feature is cool. The handle is also reduced. Our Team divers like Rene Rojas for example didn't like the T-20 because it was too big for his hands, the fit is very universal now- especially with the ergonomic grip for Righties and Lefties (upon request).
It is also V'd for sighting so you can see the shaft all the way to the tip from behind the butt.
The HF's, because the internal volume of the aluminum creates so much buoyancy, is ballasted with lead inserts depending on the length (see attached). Pretty well thought out, My 110cm HF is neutral in the water w/ the stock 6.5m shaft. Balanced as well as a Cobra and it will be about half the price. The only grievance I have is they won't make it in a size bigger than 110cm. A pity considering the stiffness of the barrel important in longer guns.
This was a rehersal presentation for our dive shops you just witnessed
At the end of the day I think the gun speaks for itself though.
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spaghetti - I think he was talking about the xxv - the Cayman has a new trigger.
I'm thinking the soft pull on the Cayman will be a real plus for accuracy on these lighter guns - particularly in shorter lengths.
What's really weird about that Omer Camo scheme is it would be perfect for here - wish I didn't need a custom suit!
I'm thinking the soft pull on the Cayman will be a real plus for accuracy on these lighter guns - particularly in shorter lengths.
What's really weird about that Omer Camo scheme is it would be perfect for here - wish I didn't need a custom suit!
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hi mark
as owner of
3 camo suits
green 3 mm
med 5 mm
dahlak 1.5
i can say the product rocks !!
the XXV gold gun i have manage to spear more fish in 7 month
then my 2 beuchat for aprrox 2 years!!
the big question is when can i get my new cayman HF 110 ??
told me in febroary i will be able to put my hend on it
thats a lot of time friend
may i say thanks for all good product U guys make :friday
as owner of
3 camo suits
green 3 mm
med 5 mm
dahlak 1.5
i can say the product rocks !!
the XXV gold gun i have manage to spear more fish in 7 month
then my 2 beuchat for aprrox 2 years!!
the big question is when can i get my new cayman HF 110 ??
told me in febroary i will be able to put my hend on it
thats a lot of time friend
may i say thanks for all good product U guys make :friday
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What a bunch of loyal enthusiasts you guys are! It's nice to see you like the look of the Cayman's. You Omerphilesrofl I bet those HF's are going to be in short supply the first few production runs judging by early feedback.
Mundial those are some big pictures One thing I noticed is that the suit blends perfectly well with that bush in your backyard, so if you need to hide from the wife when you buy too much hunting equipment you know where to hide and how to put the wetsuit to good use...
Here's a picture with my piece of aluminum and spear (Manny Puig Polespear) stabbing a nice hogfish in the same suit.
Mark
Mundial those are some big pictures
One thing I noticed is that the suit blends perfectly well with that bush in your backyard, so if you need to hide from the wife when you buy too much hunting equipment you know where to hide and how to put the wetsuit to good use...Here's a picture with my piece of aluminum and spear (Manny Puig Polespear) stabbing a nice hogfish in the same suit.
Mark
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