Opinions about respons from EliosSub

[Lambis]

I have write a mail to EliosSub and askin about a Tailor made wetsuit

Here is my email:

"I am a freediver & monofinswimmer.
What I am searching is a suit that is super elastic, (speciell att the neck and shoulders) becauce I extend my arms whem I am swimming with Monofins and a suit that is not so fragil and easy do damage.
Becauce I dont know what is ecoline, neoflex, heiwa, smothskin slide back..... I hope you can help me with some tips and configurations.

I am diving att the sommertime att the Greek islands and winter I have pooltraining in Sweden and some lake diving. I think a 5 mm suit will do the job."

They answered...

"hello,
thank you in advance for this contact and about your request we can suggest some solutions:

First of all, you have need a super stretch suit, but also very slide in the water when swimming.
the best solution for it is the smoothskin outside (rubber) but inside must choose it with lining.
all the suits with unlined neoprene (smoothskin / open cell or gold coating etc) are very very soft but also very very delicated against cutting or abrasions.
the most elastic suit is made with smoothskin outside / superelastic lining inside (best sellers in Sweden and Greek market) because is very very easy to wear, not so easy to broken and slide in the water like a second skin.
also, for training with monofin and for get a better comfort with arms extended over the head, we make the tailor made suit with little different design on the jacket.
Price for a suit like this Euro 213,00 (jacket + high waist pants in tailor made)

Second, instead if you want a more resistent suit outside (against rocks or cutting) must choose a lining outside.
in this case we have two best options:
1) superstretch nylon outside / superstretch nylon inside (new version ultrasoft) Price Euro 216,00
(very very easy to get into and out, can use it also doubleface, some time black some time Grey)
2) superstretch nylon outside / black coating inside (new product for 2004) Price Euro 236,00
(slide to wear with coating inside, very elastic and warm, aderent to the body)
coating is a special painting over the rubber for make it slide to waer and keep warm.
3) nylon elastic outside black / titanium coating inside Price Euro 178,00
it's slide for wear, warmth, good for shallow diving (15/20mt)

all these solutions are made with neoflex Neoprene (the best for freedivers) and on each suit we will put only a little logo (where do you prefer!)
you can choose also the same suits with jacket closed with collar + separated hood (with the same prices) but it's little less warm in the winter!

In acse of order:
time of working about 10 days from the order
payment by Credit card or direclty at your post office.

if you have other questions or wish other details, don't exitate to contact us."


What are your opinions and suggestions?

 

[Beaky]

Elios suits

Me and three friends all got custom Elios suits this summer and this is what we ordered:

We choose Heiwa medium density neoprene based on a lot of recommendations here on Deeper Blue. This neoprene is not quite as soft or stretchy as some other kinds (such as Yamamoto), but it is very durable and resistant to scratches and other kinds of abuse.

We got high waist pants and jackets with incorporated hoods. Zippers should be avoided since water will leak in. However some technique is required to get in and out of the suits!

For outer lining we have "smoothskin", which is no lining at all, just at treatment of the rubber to minimize friction against the water. The reason for this was mainly to maximize stretchiness, since an outer lining always reduces the stretchability.

For inner lining we went with the "superelastic" lining. We considered getting "open cell" which is no lining at all, just rubber. "Open cell" is the warmest, stretchiest and most comfortable option, but the inside is so sticky you need lubricants (like soap or hair conditioner) to get it on! Also, having neither outer nor inner lining will make the suit more fragile, and there is a risk you might tear it while putting it on or off.

I am happy with my configuration and I have been enjoying it all summer in the chilly waters of Sweden! I am glad I did get the interior lining and didn't get "open cell" since it is very difficult to put it on and off before you get the hang of it, and I probably would have ripped it apart! Now that I have a little more routine, I might consider "open cell" for my next wetsuit!

// Johnny

 

[efattah]

The complicated Elios stuff is made very simple. I've been through it all before: Just use low-density Heiwa neoprene, smoothskin outside, open-cell inside. The stuff is 90% as stretchy as yamamoto, and INDESTRUCTIBLE. You can force your fingernails through, and they won't go through. Super stretchy, super comfortable, indestructible.

The medium density heiwa is way too stiff. I don't recommend any superelastic 'lining.'

Trust me; low density heiwa in 3mm or 5mm is the way to go.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

 

[Lambis]

Thanks for the fast response.
Me to, based on what I read att this forum, I've come to the conclusion that smoothskin outside, open-cell inside is the best
alternative.
The point is if it is elastic enough to extend my arms whem I am swimming with Monofins without the suit to hold me back and if it is the best option for that sum of money ca 200 $

 

[efattah]

A 3mm low-density heiwa or 3mm yamamoto have a minor effect on stretching your arms. Moving to 5mm in either material has a slightly bigger effect on stretching your arms, but if you lube the suit properly, it should be fine. The only way to make it easier to stretch your arms would be to use a sleeveless wetsuit.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

 

[Lambis]

Hej Eric

My english is not so great
What you mean with "LUBE" is it what you use to get into the suit and if yes what is a great "LUDE" product

To Beaky

Are you using 3 or 5 mm suits in the chilly waters of Sweden?

 

[w3ac]

Eric,
Do you notice any change in buoyancy with the low desity Heiwa? My 3 mm OMER has a noticeable change once I pass 30 feet. Thanks

Motion,
Lube is the stuff that helps you get into your suit. A friend of mine uses hair conditioner mixed with water but complains that it burns the bunghole and peehole :mute. It was recommended that i use antibacterial dishsoap mixed with water. So far no burning in those sensitive areas, no rash from a bacteria encrusted suit, and more than enough lubrication to slide into the suit. Hope that helps.

Brad

 

[Beaky]

Originally posted by motionsync
To Beaky
Are you using 3 or 5 mm suits in the chilly waters of Sweden?

I am using a 5 mm suit which I would say is ideal since it doesn't get too warm in the summer and will still work when it starts getting colder.

You should note that an open cell suit will be even warmer than my lined one since less water will get in. This is because the lining will allow some water to flow into the suit while open cell creates an almost watertight seal against the skin.

Johnny

 

[JimGlynn]

Get the gold lining like I did and then you only have to lube your feet and hands with a watery soap mixture, not your whole body.
Jim

 

[efattah]

I find the low density heiwa has a much smaller buoyancy change than the yamamoto of equivalent thickness. High density heiwa apparently has very little buoyancy change, but it is inflexible.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

 

[Jersey Jim]

Motionsync, I went with a 5mm gold lined inside, nylon outside, medium density heiwa, with waist high pants. Have only been using the suit since the beginning of July, but the water temp on the botom is only 41F. For the short time spent at these tempuratures, I think this suit is the warmest I've ever used. I feel it's very durable because of the nylon outside, but I also realize you have different needs. I use a 50% mixture of shampoo and water in a pump spray bottle for the ankles, feet and legs, then flush water through the pants to remove the soap. I don't like the material sliding around. I then put the jacket on in the water. Won't be able to do tht much longer, maybe a couple of more weeks. The suit truly fits like a second skin, and is made very well. I can't help you much with material recommendations for your needs, but wanted to say a little about Elios' great product. I was using a Cressi SuperComp with 5mm farmer John pants and 6.5mm jacket. Although to that point, the Cressi was the warmest suit I owned, but my Elios with less material and custom fit, is warmer. You won't regret an Elios.

Best of luck,

Jim

 

[fjohnson]

Don't disregard the superstretch lining.. I have it in my 3mil and what a pleasure to put that suit on. Very stretchy. I also have the open cell inside in a 5 mil but when it's cold out I don't enjoy preparing the suit for a dive.. I'd consider another 5mil but this time I might go with the superstretch lining. I have the nylon inside on the 1.5mil and this suit is difficult to put on if you are already wet.. and it does not stretch much when trying to put it on. Elios are great suits.
Fred

 

[Will]

If you are diving in Greece in the summer you won't need more than a 3mm suit. I advocate the superstretch lining, but then I haven't tried open cell.
Make sure you insist on the neck measurement, as they can sometimes be a little generous there.

 

[Lambis]

Thanks for the help guys
I think that I get closer to order my suit

I think that Low-density Heiwa neoprene is the way to go
With Smooth skin outside (maybe: Smooth skin Slide black outside)
Open cell inside. (maybe: Open cell slide)
But is this suit resistent??

I think altenative 2 is : superstretch nylon outside / black coating inside

Or maybe a Cressi Sub comp.

About thikness I was thinking 3mm but maybe a 5mm is a more resistant suit. I have read that 3mm suits are more easy to damage that 5mm ??!!


Regards

 

[efattah]

Like I said, low density Heiwa (3mm or 5mm) is extremely resistant to breaking / scratching etc...


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada

 

[Lambis]

Eric is it posible to order from elios a low density Heiwa 3mm
suit with a tailor design like the old Mares Pipin OLOKUN suit.
If you remember the Long John is very very high
Here a link with a Photo:
http://www.mares.gr/products/mares/wetsuits/pipinline.html
Becauce offen when I swin with monofins i use only the long John from my old Mares American 5mm suit.
Its help me becauce my arms are free and its work great in Greece where the water is warm

 

[Lambis]

Here is a new respons from EliosSub after I told them that I whant low-density Heiwa neoprene

"Hello,
the low-density Heiwa neoprene is the best solution for you because is very soft and comfortable. (but also good for deep diving)

about neoprene Smoothskin Slide / Open cell Slide, it's very very soft, comfortable and slippery into the water but also very delicated.
this kind of neoprene is delicated also for wearing not only against cutting, so must keep attention with it.

The altenative are:

1) smoothskin black outside / superelastic lining inside (very very easy to wear without lube and not so delicated when get into and out)

2) Superstretch Nylon outside / Black Coating inside, (it's a new coating after the Gold classic coating, that help the wearing without lube but keep warm the suit and stop the water inside)
The Coating inside is a special painting over the open cell rubber for keep it slippery and keep warmth.
there are many type of coating into the wet suits, Titanium (white) the most economic, Gold or Blue the most famous, Black the new version for 2004.

3) if you prefer the suit like solution 1 but want more resistence, we can offer this special solution:
Jacket 5mm Smoothskin Slide / Open cell Slide (for better moving and elasticity)
pants 3mm Superstretch nylon / Black Coating (for better resistence where is very important) (more little thicknees for moving)
price for it Euro 236,00

about design of the suit for swimming, when we will prepare it will make little changes on shoulders and arms for a better position with arms over the head.

the suit in 3mm with unlined neoprene is more delicated than 5mm but with lining outside or inside, they have the same resistence."


P.S. Eric Fattah

I really whant to order a use low-density Heiwa neoprene, smoothskin outside, open-cell inside suit but if it is so indestructible why EliosSub told me that:
"...all the suits with unlined neoprene (smoothskin / open cell or gold coating etc) are very very soft but also very very delicated against cutting or abrasions"?

Becauce I i diving in Greece for the beach full with stones and caves i what that my suit last for some time. (Dont have the money to by every year a new one :-( )

But I am so happy that you guys help me with my first Freediving Suit. Thanks - thanks - thanks.

 

[Beaky]

motionsync,

I think I should point out that if you should happen to rip or cut your suit it is usually not the end of the world since you can glue it! You can buy wetsuit glue from the Deeper blue store, or maybe Elios can sell you some too.

Of the four Heiwa suits we bought this summer only one has had any kind of damage, and that was after its owner scraped against an old metal pipe he was playing with on the bottom. The cuts in the suit didn't even go all the way through the 5 mm neoprene, so the Heiwa material is clearly quite resistant!

I know from experience that the rocks in greece can be very sharp, and if you expect to be bumping into them a lot you will probably want some outer lining to protect the suit, but if you expect to be a bit cautious, I think you will be fine with smoothskin.

Johnny

 

[JimGlynn]

I have a medium density heiwa smoothskin and have torn it twice while putting it on. Now that I know to lube the wrist and ankle seals I have had no problems since. I would never call it "indestructible". If you think you are going to be sliding over sharp rocks often, I would definitely get the nylon exterior.
Jim

 

[fjohnson]

Another thing... I let my brother use my 3 different Elios suits often .. all smooth cell outside, 1 nylon inside, 1 open cell inside, and 1 superstretch.. nylon is econoline, open cell is professional, and superstretch is professional.. and guess which one he always wants to borrow... right.. the smooth cell outside with superstretch inside. It's a pleasure to put on as I've stated earlier. It's not always easy to find a nice area to lube down the inside of an open cell inside suit, even with a tarp on the ground, and if it's freezing out it's not much help to use hot cream rinse and water mix because by the time you get done lubing it up, it's freezing too. JMO ... and my brothers' too
Fred