Opinions about respons from EliosSub

Okay, I suppose I should jump in here. Long time lurker, first time poster.

Following the oodles of advice available on the forum, my wife and I ordered our first wetsuits - we are freediving newbies. Elios, low density Heiwa neoprene, superelastic inside, smoothskin outside, seperate hoods.

They are amazing. The material truly is very resistant to both scratches and pulling/tugging - my wife kneeled on rocks with no damage to the suit. The suits fit like a glove, and allow an amazing range of motion. The superelastic inside makes it very nice to put on, and with the seal these give, I can't see it affecfting the thermal protection that much. The seals on our neck are immaculate so far.

As a former bubble-blower, I keep telling my wife that she's been spoiled now. I need to get her in a SCUBA wetsuit so she realizes what she is missing. :t


Best,
Gabriel

Thanks for the welcome. We ordered 3mm.

Our suits are high waist pants, jacket closed, seperate hood. We don't have seals (noun) on our necks, but when you get a suit with a seperate hood, the way the suit natural seals (verb) around the neck is a big concern. You don't want the neckline letting in tons of cold water down your back on every dive.

The necks on the suits are very snug and fit nicely.


Best,
Gabriel

I dated a Swedish girl once, and as I no doubt owe your country some kind of deep karmic debt, I'll answer promptly.

The water temp here is 25 Celsius right now, but it falls to about 12 Celsius in the winter. At 25 C, the 3mm without hood is a bit too warm for me. Even with the superelastic lining, it is an incredible fit. I'm certain open cell would be even warmer.

I'll let you know in a couple of months how warm the hood is.

Originally posted by motionsync
I was thinking to order the same configuration. Is it not fragile without lining?
When you have tried it write a review.

Click to expand...

Ok, these are my thoughts on my first real (as in opencell/smoothskin) freediving suit:

The water temperature in the Red sea was about 25 degrees and a 3 mm suit without hood was absolutely perfect for me! Not having a hood is great for "recreational" freediving, but holding my arms stretched in front of me didn't work well at all since water would stream down my back. This was not a problem because it is not a position a normally use, but for more competitive freediving you will want an incorporated hood!

Putting the suit on was a little tricky at first but I got better and better at it. I would either put it on in the water if conditions were favorable (no sand swirling around getting inside the suit etc) or if that didn't work I would spray the inside of the suit with a mixture of one part hair conditioner and two parts (bottled) water. It helps to get the suit and yourself wet first (in a shower), or you can spray a little extra conditioner and put it on completely dry too.

I was very impressed with the durability of the material. Once when I went through the arch at the Bells (everyone visiting Dahab shoud do this!) I scraped my leg against the rock quite hard, and at the time I thought to myself that it was a good thing i brought wetsuit glue. But when I examined the suit later there was no visible damage at all!

I wonder if there is any way I can remove the interior lining on my older 5mm suit... :head

Johnny

Hi,

being new to both deeperblue and freediving, though looking forward to ordering an Elios suit, I wonder if low or medium density Heiwa is the better choice. Eric Fattah's favourite seems to be low density, whereas others obviously like medium best.
With my max. depth currently being 21m, I guess I needn't worry about high density *g*... nevertheless, I plan to improve a bit over the next few years during which I will own this suit (given that I dot't rip it apart when donning it for the first time *g*).
Can anyone give me some hints on that matter ?

Thanks,
Veronika.

Sorry I forgot: Apart from that low/medium-density-matter - does anyone perhaps have some hands-on experience on the new open slide cell ? Is it good ? Bad ? Worth the money ?

Thanks again,
Veronika

Originally posted by Veronika
I wonder if low or medium density Heiwa is the better choice.

Click to expand...

The bouancy change is much greater for a thick suit than a thin one, so if you plan to get a thick suit (like more than 5 mm) you might consider medium density, but if not, I think you should go with low density.

I don't know about the latest materials, but open cell + smoothskin which is the simplest and cheapest works really well once you get the hang of putting it on and taking it off. Make sure to study Elios instructions and use lots of lubrication the first times and I am sure you will be fine!

Johnny

I might be late into the discussion but here are a few hints on.....

HOW TO CHOOSE A TAILOR MADE ELIOSSUB SUIT (freedivers):

1. Ask yourself what you will use the suit for. Competition? Training? Pool? Outdoor? Depth? Can you afford two suits? Can you afford changing suit every two years? Are you a freezy person?

2. Choose type of NEOPRENE.
Neoprene are made by different manufacturers (Heiwa, Yamamoto…) – they all have slightly different qualities. Heiwa is said to be more durable. Yamamoto more stretchable. Or the new Freedown neoprene which I guess doesnt go with any rgid lining.

3. Choose QUALITY OF NEOPRENE. ECOLINE is somewhat cheaper. NEOFLEX professional is somewhat better and slightly more expensive.

4. Choose DENSITY of neoprene. Light, medium or heavy density. The more density the more durable but less flexibility. Heavy density also doesn’t get as much compressed in the deep. It is said among freedivers that there is very little buoyancy change even in medium density.

5. Choose THICKNESS of suit. The thicker the warmer. The thinner the more flexible. Don’t worry about getting to warm – If so, just let water enter the suit. A thicker suit will change more in buoyancy at depth – compared to a thin suit.

6. OUTSIDE LINING If you freedive outdoor for recreation/training you need to protect the open cell smoothskin from cliffs. You need a outside lining. With smoothskin open cell you will glide more (competition) but it gets thorn more easily.

7. INSIDE LINING. Without lining (open cell) the suit will stick to your body (therefore enhance warmness) and be more flexible, BUT you will need lubrication (schampoo) to get into it. To avoid this you can choose a coating. A coating will make it slide more easily onto your body but you will loose the advantages of open cell. Coating is NOT a lining. If you need more durability then choose an inner lining. Most coatings are made to reflect heat.

REMEMBER
- A common solution for freedivers is Heiwa medium density with an inner coating. If competing choose smoothskin on the outside, if training in wear and tear environment choose an outer lining.
- You cannot combine a stretchy inner lining with a more rigid outer lining and vice versa.
- Don’t try to buy one suit that will do two things for you.
- You can choose different linings and thicknesses on your jacket and trousers.
- You can buy an extra jacket that is thicker for winter freediving.


Sebastian /Sweden

As far as I know it is expensive neoprene that is very smooth aswell as stretchy.

But you Lambis should buy a suit that works for training and recreation. Forget Smoothskin on outside. And save yourself the hazzle of sopa to get into the suit.

Nylon stretch outside and a coating on the inside (gold or black). Then you USE your suit and go to intresting places and enter from the cliffs. Buy a 5mm so that you can dive in sweden to - if you get to warm just flush the suit.
If you are not a freezy person you could buy only a 3mm jacket with hood and 5mm long johns. Neoflex material, and trust Fattah on Heiwa medium density.

Thats my suggestion.

Sebastian

I just received my Elios custom wetsuit jacket this weekend

sturgeon


Hi neighbor. I'm down in the Pompano Beach area. I was wondering how your 3mm Elios is holding up for reef spearfishing? I was thinking about ordering a full suit with attached hood in 3mm with smoothcell exterior and superstrech inside. Do you think this suit could be used here most of the year? Any input you could give me would be appreciated. I will be using it for spearfishing. Sometimes with scuba as well.

Can anyone tell what the real difference is between the gold, black, titanium (coatings), and copper smooth lining is?


Thanks

Divefan and others

Regarding Eliossub suits I got fed up with myself not really grasping it all - so I sorted it all out and came up with this text:

http://www.webvideo.nu/freediving/features/eliossub.html

Sebastian/ Sweden

cebaztian

Thank you very much. This is exactly what I needed. I have gone back and forth with Elios for some time trying to understand all the differences between their choices. Every time I think I have made up my mind they throw another option at me and we have to start all over again. Your post has put it all in a simple and concise format. Everyone considering an Elios product should read your link.

After a lot of deep thinking my wife and I have chosen the following suits:

Custom 3 mm Heiwa medium density neoprene, nylon elastic outside, smooth copper coating inside, high waist pant, hood, loading pad, and knee pads.

Our choice was based upon our diving style. Mainly we spearfish and lobster year round in warm South Florida water. Primarily we are scuba divers so our needs are different from the freedivers that mainly use these type of suits. I know I know but we have a lot of friends that are top notch free divers.

The nylon stretch will give us outside strength to avoid tears and scrapes. The copper smooth inside will be a compromise between easy on and off and warmth. Hopefully we have made the correct choice. I will post results after the suits arrive.

I welcome anyone else's opinion on our decision.

I am also ordering an Elios suit tommorow. My own personal christmas pressy

I am getting a 7mm Benthos (Smoothskin/Opencell) Jacket and 7mm camo lined pants. Getting Medium Density Heiwa and all.
Can't be arsed getting cold this winter.

I got a nice little gift from Santa, early I know, and am finally ready to get an Elois suit.

After reading through all of the threads I think that I am going to end up with two suits, one for cold water and another for warm water. I ned a new warm water suit because I lost so much weight after my daughter was born that I no longer fit into my Picasso.

I am open to suggestions on these suits form people who have them. So far I own an opencell Esclapez, a gold coated Picasso, and a Cressi supercomp. All of these have the standard nylon on the outside. I am well versed in how to put a suit on, but am a little nervous about going to a smooth skin outer lining for durablity. I would LIKE to go to one for warmth on the boat, ease of movement, and I guess that they might be a bit faster.

So here are my thoughts:

Cold water suit- 5mm, or maybe even 7mm, Low density Heiwa with an opencell inside, for warmth, and a Super-elastic outer lining, for durablity, plus a loading pad on the chest. This would be for spearfishing right up until the lakes freeze and ice diving.

Warm(er) water suit- 3mm medium density Heiwa with a black lining on the inside, for some durability, and a smooth outer surface for speed. This would be my summer time deep(er) water suit.

I have read how some have ripped, and re-glued, their smooth skin outer suits many times, but others seem to have no trouble with this. How much preformance do you gain by going to a smooth skin outer?

Also, has anyone tried this freedown rubber instead fo the Heiwa?

Thanks,

Jon

My experience with the pro freediving suits....long....

My experience with the professional freediving suits...
(decided to post his as kinda an answer to a pm from jon)
As I've stated before.. I love my superstretch lined 3mil smooth cell outer suit. the only repairs I've had to do to it are from fingernails on the outside... Not even sure if they were from me or others I've let use it. The fingernail nicks have never gone through and have been very easy to dab some trident neoprene cement on for a near invisible repair.. usually I use a toothpick or cotton swab to get the glue under the small flap that a fingernail has created. It's about the same story with my 5mil suit although that is a bit tougher neoprene (econoline) so does take a bit more abuse.
For this winter/very late fall/very early spring diving I've thought it would be nice to have a 2mil or so vest over my 5mil suit... I've been keeing my eyes open for zippered vest or jacket.. want something easy to get over top. I have worn my 3mil jacket over my 5 mil on some occassions.. not an easy task, but do-able.. and very very toasty warm.. maybe working up a sweat to get into it is the reason.. hahah. I'd say a 7, or maybe a 6.5 mil jacket would be a good idea for our cold times, and in the low density should be pretty stretchy.
I think if you order smooth skin outside you will be pleased as far as the durability goes and the glide factor.. I've been impressed.. they really can take some abuse.. it's not like they tear everytime you snag on something or kneel on rocks/gravel. I try to be very careful but have made mistakes/errors without any damage. Sitting on the edge of the boat to enter the water and sliding in (not good to do when the boat and you are dry) for instance, kneeling on gravely lake bottoms in the shallows. I generally, if I'm boat diving, just shoot up over the side... no damage done from that and I've done it many times. I carry a toenail clipper with me in the explorer to keep the fingernails and toenails clipped, nails seem to be what causes the most trouble. As far as the "glide factor" that you get with a smooth cell otside, that's important to me, and I think you will definetly notice the improved greased feeling while swimming/diving over a lined outer. Since we're not in the corals a lot around here... I'd recommend the smooth outer.. my opinion, of course.
I've got to say... it's so nice not having to lube up my 3mil.. and now my brother has that black lined 5mil that he doesn't have to lube up. I don't mind lubing up my 5mil suit... it's kinda like a ritual before I go diving.. but when it's v.cold outside, it's no fun dealing with climbing into a soaked suit..or taking the time lubing it up in the cold.. even if you start with hot water it can be v.cold water by the time you're slipping it on. I've even put my 5mil suit on at my step daughters house in fargo only to have to drive with it on for an hour just to avoid the lubing it up in the cold.

You won't be sorry with a stretchy lining of some kind in your suit.. and I'd say go with the smooth outside.. you won't be sorry about that either. The performance/minimal resistance is noticeable over a lined outer.
O.K., I guess, pants lined on the outside might not be a bad idea.. or maybe with knee pads.. (I tend to like to kneel in the shallows after a session of diving, and the pants tend to get the abuse.. sitting, kneeling, crawling, etc.)

Just adding to the opinions....
Fred

Thanks Fred,

I've been emailing Elios and have decided that my winter suit will be 6mm low-density Heiwa, with opencell inside and a Smoothskin outer. Since I always lube up my suits, whether they are lined or opencell, I figured that I would go for the warmest suit possible. I am still undecided about the pants. I would like a complete smooth skin outer suit, but the extra durability from having super-streatch lining on the pants sounds pretty tempting.

I know what you mean about suiting up and driving. When we dive in the middle of the winter it's just easier to suit up at home and drive to the lake. I don't mind changing before I get into the car to drive home because the suit comes off a lot faster than it goes on. It's also possible to just throw down a couple of towls and drive home in the suit if the temps really start to drop.

I am still undecided about the summer suit. Smoothskin outer would seem to be the way to go, but I am not sure if I want to go opencell on the inside of that one, or go with some type of inner lining to make it stronger. Elios still hasn't answered me back on that point. They did say that I would be better off with medium-denstiy Heiwa for that suit, rather than Freedown or low-density Heiwa.

One suit at a time, and since most of the lakes are now frozen around here I think I'll just concentrate on the winter suit for now.


Jon