PBs - the curse of freediving?

[cdavis]

Well said.

Still, I don't think it is really a discussion of the difference between competitive and non-competitive diving. Its more an exploration of how PB is used and/or misused.

The next level is what can we do about misuse, if anything? Is it just an expression of unavoidable human nature or is there something we can project that might guide some divers? Do we want to do anything more than already is?

Interesting thoughts

Connor

 

[Simos]

Agree with Dave, competitiveness is definitely not a curse - that's definitely not what I had in mind when I originally posted.

I was thinking more along the lines of what Connor and island sands said, both from a safety point of view but also for progression ie questioning whether the PB can either be used as a tool for determining what safe limits are and also whether having the PB as a target is problematic.

In terms of safety, I still think that it's a dangerous concept based mainly between variations i've noticed in my dives but also just a few observations about BOs.

From an improvement point of view I feel it can be a mixed bag: clearly it drives some of the top freedivers to a certain extend so there's no denying it helps (at least with motivation?) but I have to admit that it stills spoils my freediving night a bit when I am buddying them through a static and they start looking at their watch towards the end because they want to get to a certain number/PB - if I'm asked 'how was it' after I say '20 seconds too long'

There is no denying that a new PB mostly feels great but for me it's only so when the PB 'just happens' (often when you least expect it) as a part of a natural progression and improvement (as opposed to actively gunning for it all the time).

I was lucky enough to have had one such experience with static a few months ago which I still consider my best dive - I was super relaxed throughout, not even a single contraction, came up smiling and really comfortable only because I was getting the feeling that I had done a bit more than what I said I would roughly do, only to find out I had done 45s more than what I was used to doing (not that the time matters at all, I would have been equally happy with the dive even if it was a lot shorter as it felt perfect!)

 

[Walrus]

I totally agree with Simon (azapa).

The PB's where you are still eq'ing on the bottom, everything went right on the dive, come to the surface and having felt it's easy and then having an ear to ear grin are the ones that I am the most happiest with, and remember the most.

 

[shrek]

I think PB's are a useful training tool.You can gain a lot of information from them.Eg you try for a personal best and it dosen't come off, why?
I had a week long dive course to do a few months back and one thing i quickly learned training for it, is you have a training cycle of ups and downs. the information gained from max sessions showed me where i was in my training and the time between peaks. So with a date for the course i worked backwards to time my training peak for that week. Just like you would for a comp.
So in short PB's are another tool if used properly.
Where the problems start is when people try and go past there pb's by too much at a time.

 

[Simos]

I think Simon's (azapa) post was interesting in two ways: firstly because it shows that PB's can be useful to measure progress without being fixated on them.

The second interesting point is that if the PB is not reached then he'll try again to beat it the year after. Would it not make more sense to try and better last year's performance rather than the PB from two years ago?

There is a small distinction between depth and pool disciplines in this I guess in that for pool disciplines, you can just try and see how the dive goes and come up when it feels right but unfortunately for depth you need to declare the depth which changes the game a bit in competitions...

 

[Unclejake]

There is a small distinction between depth and pool disciplines.........

That ..........and when you go too far in the pool someone can reach down from the surface and pull you up by the hair :girlie

 

[Simos]

I think PB's are a useful training tool.You can gain a lot of information from them.Eg you try for a personal best and it dosen't come off, why?

Well you can do that but equally you can just try beating your last or recent (proper) performance, why would you go after your PB?

I know it sounds a bit like clutching on straws here but one problem as you put it is that when people try to beat their PB by 'too much'. It's really hard knowing what too much is..

I am guessing the pressure sometimes comes from the logistics - you take a couple of weeks off work to get to a competition or training far away, pay lots of money and naturally have expectations of a PB at the end so even if the training dives are not as strong, you just decide to give it a go anyway since the next chance you might get might be a year away. Not sure if I'm off the mark here...

 

[freeln2]

No, bit of a mix

Curious PBs in sleddiving and CPBs in other?

 

[Mullins]

Heh. CWT PB is a CPB.

 

[osusim]

Relax guys, Simos is just a regular forum troll, very provocative, active and low educated.

 

[Canetoad Films]

PBs are a useful tool... in fact, in my opinion, one of the most useful tools of a freediving coach. I have been coaching new freedivers for 3 years with Sydney Freedivers. There are spearfishers, recreational freedivers (not competition), surfers (wanting increased breath for surf hold-downs) and the smallest group is the actual competition freedivers.

We discourage divers constantly attempting PBs. We encourage freedivers to work on a program that over a few months will increase their PB. They all train... not to feel comfortable, because nothing changes ability to hold ones breath than experiencing the urge to breathe time and time again and gradually pushing through it. They all train to increase their ability.

What better tool to measure changes in ability than a PB.

The recreational freediver or spearfisher who can dive 40m is completely comfortable doing 20m dives.

The surfer who can do a DNF of 50m with no warm up and little air in the lungs, is no longer threatened buy 30 second or a minute hold down.

One for one they are willing, even enthusiastic to train through discomfort to accomplish greater ability... to achieve their next PB.

Correct technique plays a huge part in increasing PBs.. What better way to measure such improvements.

In the club's training BOs and sambas are a flunk and the diver gets relegated to the yellow kick board of shame for surface work for the rest of the night. It doesn't happen often.

No doubt there are many other ways to train divers but this is what we have found successful and well received by the divers themselves.

Judge
Canetoad Films

 

[Kars]

Pb's can present a level of ability.
Pb's can be a recording of one's personal freedive career.
Pb's are to be remembered.
Pb's are dives where things felt into place, where the mind made that leap.
Pb's dives are magical, mythical.
Pb's can become a obsession, needing self-control.
Pb's can be proof of training effectiveness.
Pb's are some people's way to value each other.
Pb's are a requirement for participating in many competitions.
Pb's in relation to announced depths are an safety need probability indication.
Pb's are a display of ambitions.
Pb's are a drug.
Pb's can be a curse.
Pb's are a story.

 

[Simos]

Relax guys, Simos is just a regular forum troll, very provocative, active and low educated.

It takes one to know one springs to mind Osusim

 

[whiteminiman]

I was lucky enough to have had one such experience with static a few months ago which I still consider my best dive - I was super relaxed throughout, not even a single contraction, came up smiling and really comfortable only because I was getting the feeling that I had done a bit more than what I said I would roughly do, only to find out I had done 45s more than what I was used to doing (not that the time matters at all, I would have been equally happy with the dive even if it was a lot shorter as it felt perfect!

Exactly my point

The numbers don't mean anything.

 

[freeln2]

Pb's are some people's way to value each other.

I love PB not BP )

P.S. Happy Birthday, Kars!

 

[laminar]

I have a pb that really counts. I've had freediving in my life for 5,781,600 minutes and still going....

But not continuously, of course.

:friday

 

[noa]

great thread. thanks for starting this Simos !
yes, i'm all for pb's and that is the only reason i dive.
having said that, i'm on the boat that considers a pb a dive that felt amazing, a dive that when you came up you felt you had for that duration left this dimension and entered an altered state of being and bla bla bla...
seriously, for me it's ALL about feel. i could not care less about depths, numbers or any other rational, square, logical, "earth based" type of thinking that i do my best to get away from when i go out to dive.
what i do care about is having a smile, a really big smile, on me when and after i dive.
about feeling so relaxed and worry free that i could actually just melt, right then and there. about having my brain as blank as possible, just floating in the present experience.
THAT, is what floats my boat...