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Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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IAFD or Performance

Cliff,

If I understand correctly, you were originally pursuing an apprenticeship with Performance Freediving but you now state "after some of the stories I have heard regarding other clinics and courses offered, I would be hard pressed to find a better course than the IAFD's". I take it that you now believe the IAFD is the best freediving training available and you are pursuing instructor status through them? Could you please elaborate on your switch and why you feel so strongly towards IAFD now?

Thanks.

Scott Turgeon
 
No balding titleholders...

Good luck Cliff! I fear my PB and record for fresh water free immersion may be in jeopardy, though once I get this damn pump fixed, my hot tub will be back in order to regain the coveted static with chlorine title... :t
 
Re: IAFD or Performance

Originally posted by sturgeon
Cliff,

If I understand correctly, you were originally pursuing an apprenticeship with Performance Freediving but you now state "after some of the stories I have heard regarding other clinics and courses offered, I would be hard pressed to find a better course than the IAFD's". I take it that you now believe the IAFD is the best freediving training available and you are pursuing instructor status through them? Could you please elaborate on your switch and why you feel so strongly towards IAFD now?

Thanks.

Scott Turgeon

Scott and the rest of the DB forum members...

I did get a taste for what going deeper was about by attending Kirk's PFD clinic, and I am in gratitude to Kirk and Brett for having given me some initial skills needed to freedive deeper, but understand that I am not only interested in IAFD but also AIDA's and S.A.F.E.R.'s teaching methods and concepts as well.

I am now a Certified Freedive Instructor through IAFD - finished my cert process last thursday. I do feel that the IAFD provided for me a clearer distinction between recreational -vs- performance freediving training techniques, whereas the others, so far, haven't made that distinction. And when performance training techniques are taught to inexperienced freedivers, there is a greater chance for something to go wrong.

I do not feel that any one agency or clinic has the perfect system, but I do feel that the level of instruction was more complete with IAFD. I was able to go deeper and surface in much better shape than when I did the PFD course. In fact, Matt Briseno said I looked like I could have gone another 10-20 meters deeper based upon how good I looked when I surfaced. And I felt better while going deeper than I ever had before.

My primary concern is related to safe freedive instruction. And that is the #1 goal with the IAFD and S.A.F.E.R. Otherwise, I wouldn't have gone with IAFD (and soon S.A.F.E.R.) in the first place. Too much emphasis has been placed on the performance side without taking into consideration the need for safety for the recreational freediver. Also - the IAFD is the only agency at this time who can offer the necessary resources for teaching a methodology that is universally accepted and proven (the same system as PADI, SSI, NAUI, etc) and providing the tools like liability insurance to it's Instructors.

I'm not here to put down one method of teaching over another - I am stating from my experiences of having worked as a PADI Divemaster candidate and assisting classes, that the IAFD's methods of training were more conducive to safe freediving - especially for recreational freediving. And I truly feel that this distinction needs to be made.

I will be doing more in the near future with providing proper instruction for those who want to freedive recreationally - The S.A.F.E.R. methodology will be by next project, which is run by Ricardo Hernandez out of Miami and expounds on what I learned at the IAFD - from a different perspective. I also have both Ricardo and Pipin as resources should I need advice and guidance for training at a competitive level.

So it isn't about choosing one agency or system over the other - it is about utilizing all the available resources as tools to bring the sport of freediving to a higher level of safety, which in turn, makes the sport more enjoyable in the process.
 
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Re: Re: IAFD or Performance

Originally posted by Cliff Etzel

I am now a Certified Freedive Instructor through IAFD - finished my cert process last thursday.

And when performance training techniques are taught to inexperienced freedivers, there is a greater chance for something to go wrong.

Read this lightly...

Just as when you experienced your epiphany with the need for buddy's when freediving, Cliff, I'll be interested and bemused to read of your forays into instruction.

sven rofl
 
NOT

>I'm not here to put down one method of teaching over another

Is one allowed to ask what your definition of 'put down' is?

Aloha
Bill
 
Cliff,

I disagree with how you have illuminated the PFD clinics. First, I clearly remember being taught the distinction between performance and recreational diving in the PFD clinic of June '01.

Second, I recommend you reread your prior post and consider clarifying/editing your statements regarding your comparison of some vastly different programs. I (and possibly Kona Bill as well) interpreted your statements about PFD to mean that of all the programs you listed, 'only IAFD is safe' when you write:
"when performance training techniques are taught to inexperienced freedivers, there is a greater chance for something to go wrong."

Is this what you meant?

Third, your statement of how you surfaced "in much better shape" after a certain dive is subjective and is not an effective way to compare different teaching methods. Remember, our bodies will perform at one level on a given day, but not even come close the next.

Fourth, PFD stresses safety as #1 priority as well. Leaving PFD out of your "safety" paragraph implies that organization is not safety conscious. Did you mean this as well?

Providing opinions based on unverifiable information is risky at best, damning at worst. Please consider how you would want to be written about (in the public domain) with regards to your own livelyhood.

For the record, I am not affiliated with PFD in any way other than trainee.

PFD has room for improvement (certainly they ALL do). I made several suggestions last June to Kirk and Brett and was pleased to see Kirk and Brett seriously consider, then openly discuss how to incorporate what I had to say into future courses. I will make suggestions again if appropriate, but only in private.

The written word is a damn permanent way of communicating (unless Sven starts some of his fancy editing and then you will wish you never posted - bring it on Svenski, I can take anything your feeble brain can think up!).


Respectfully,
 
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I'm not sure entirely what is being said here, and I know it is easy to misinterpret the printed word. I also have never had a course from Pipin, but I have had a course from Kirk, and have watched him work (for free, mostly).
What I will say is that Kirk is a man among men, meaning a man of honour and character. He teaches freediving with passion and conviction, and I have never met someone who is more devoted to the safety and promotion of safe freediving. Nobody I know puts in the amount of volunteer hours that he does towards promotion of the sport in Canada (and other places). He also does not slag other freedivers, no matter their political or commercial leanings, unlike some other teachers out there. That in itself is enough for me.
I'm sure Pipin teaches a fine course, but I don't think there is much room to criticise.
Good diving to you all,
Erik Y.
 
Hi Everyone,

Just thought i'd throw in my $0.02 here.

Obviously I work with Cliff so know him better than just words in these forums can explain, and i'm concerned that Cliff is being slightly mis-understood. :head

We work with all the major active agencies (AIDA, IAFD, FREE and now SAFER) to provide independent means of progressing the sport of freediving. At the end of last year Cliff and I decided that he should start taking various Recreational and Performance Freediving courses, with an ultimate aim to become an instructor. :girlie

Cliff took the PFD clinic at the end of last year and the IAFD Instructor course a little while ago. He now plans on taking the SAFER Instructor course and i'm investigating getting him certified under AIDA as an instructor. We haven't given much thought to FREE yet but i'm sure he'll investigate that option soon.

So, as you can see he's trying to make sure tha the covers as much ground as possible to make sure that we are able to provide impartial advice on all training. People's opinions change as they progress through training (and life) and at present Cliff feels the IAFD training is better than the PFD clinic. This doesn't mean the Kirk and Brett are lesser men or questioning their honour, just that the course content may be better in one person's opinion.

One thing I do agree on is that Cliff's post can be taken as subjective, and we can only strive to make sure that we are objective in the future.

My own personal opinion is that anyone who helps drive this sport forward, no matter how small or large the contribution, so long as it is done in a safe manner, should be congratulated and be honoured as someone who is willing to give time, sweat and money (usually) to make this sport better.

Anyway, my $0.02
 
Thanks Cliff

Cliff,

Thank you for your response and openness. I appreciate it. The reason I was asking which training regime you felt was better was because I live about an hour north of Miami and have access to both IAFD and PFD clinics. I've been interested in taking a clinic for awhile but time, money, and family commitments always seem to take priority. Please keep us posted on your thoughts about SAFER (also in Miami) once you get more familiar with their training principles.

Scott Turgeon
 
cliff

congrats on your new pb. i admire your adamancy on pursuing instruction in this sport. you'll only get wiser and hopefully better. it would be nice to know another person is out there wanting and able to share the knowledge through mentorship and education. i hope your gratitude always outweighs what monetary benefits arise from your quest.

keep it real with respect and you can do no wrong.

best of luck,
anderson
 
Stephen,

I asked Cliff these questions to make certain he is NOT misunderstood. I asked for verification and I want his honest response. I do not pretend to understand ANYTHING until he does so. No need to defend him because there is no attack.

Warmly,
 
Treading lightly

I knew what I was going to say would be taken the wrong way - no matter how hard I tried to answer fairly, but since I was asked, I tried the best I could to answer it in a fair and honest way.

I am not disputing anyones integrity here - that wasn't my point.

I was stating that based upon my experiences in a structured teaching environment, the IAFD program gave some things that aren't covered in other programs I had participated in or researched.

Having not gotten over the jet-lag, I should have waited to post until I was thinking clearer - what was said was taken the wrong way, and it wasn't my intent - I apologize to those who may have been offended.
 
Octo,

:D I didn't believe it was an "attack", but I knew generally what Cliff was trying to say and wanted to put my thoughts down. I knew you'd all be wanting clarification so was just trying to help :)
 
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Re: Treading lightly

Originally posted by Cliff Etzel

I was stating that based upon my experiences in a structured teaching environment, the IAFD program gave some things that aren't covered in other programs I had participated in or researched.

Having not gotten over the jet-lag, I should have waited to post until I was thinking clearer.
______________________________________

Based on your years and years of experience Cliff, I can see where you could say that...rofl And Stephan, next time I shove my fin in my piehole and feign jetlag, overwork, lactose intolerance and/or menstrual cramps, can I call you to bail me out? :blackeye

sven
 
My $0.02 Worth

Good on ya Cliff


Cliff is doing what I tried to do last year when I had the cash flow and was a newbie at this. Get information.

I was invited to take Pipin's instructor course and enjoyed it very much. The course is based on the PADI form of teaching which is very easy to read and follow. If safety came out larger to Cliff than PFD's course it is due to the way they word there manuals and teach it. I also have taken the PFD clinic and am very good friends with Brett. Safety is very big with PFD also. That is why we spent so much time in the pool, then in the ocean learning rescue techniques. If PFD had an instructor coures I would have taken that also. To some of your suprise (maybe) Brett took Pipin's course along with me. We are two of the first six IAFD instructors in the state of Hawaii.

If I would have had access to the other agencies to take their courses I would have. It's not about who's side you're on but it's all about the information.

I think Cliff's comment on "performance training" was taken out of context. What I understood was if you are a new free diver and you were to train as a performance free diver NOT a PFD free diver it could be dangerous.

I agree that what people write on this or any site should be well explained because people will read it differently than how you wrote it.

Thanks

I have left the building:cool



DSV
 
Re: Re: Treading lightly

Originally posted by icarus pacific
And Stephan, next time I shove my fin in my piehole and feign jetlag, overwork, lactose intolerance and/or menstrual cramps, can I call you to bail me out? :blackeye

Why of course my friend!

I'm just accutely aware of the fact, that as DSV pointed out, "people will read it differently than how you wrote it". I'm also aware that I don't get it right all the time (slight nod to Anderson here).

Remember everyone - we're one big community here, let's just have fun.
 
believe me...

...don't worry about us having fun, Big Guy. There are lots of us laughing out here. rofl

sven
 
PB image #1

Here are a couple of images from my personal best dive while in Miami taken by Pipin...
 

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Great shots! I can't wait to be diving in water that I can actually see more than 2 or 3 metres.
Keep them coming Cliff.

Since this is the "PB" thread, you all might like to know that I hit 44.7 metres yesterday, and it was a nice relaxing dive, too :)
I've changed my form in the water, figuring out what works for me with the monofin, and it's helped me relax and equalise at depth.
Cheers,
Erik Y.
 
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