Possible new gun

[foxfish]

As this is a quiet time of year for a lot of us spearo's on db & as there are no feature gun builds happening.....lets build a gun!
I have a very basic design idea in my head but thought it would be fun to get some input from you guys.
I want to make a ridgid internal "backbone" & add wood to this structure.
A carbon T section will be the backbone & I am thinking off using cedar to clad the backbone.
However that is as far as I have got - the length & band power, the track & trigger is something I would like some input on.
I dont mind building a blue water gun or a short cave gun?
Any design ideas?

 

[Phil Herranen]

As this is a quiet time of year for a lot of us spearo's on db & as there are no feature gun builds happening.....lets build a gun!
I have a very basic design idea in my head but thought it would be fun to get some input from you guys.
I want to make a ridgid internal "backbone" & add wood to this structure.
A carbon T section will be the backbone & I am thinking off using cedar to clad the backbone.
However that is as far as I have got - the length & band power, the track & trigger is something I would like some input on.
I dont mind building a blue water gun or a short cave gun?
Any design ideas?

a "+" shape or "I" beam would be much stiffer , and you and tie the track into the strong back .i have played around with designs a little like this and usualy just go foam (where you are using wood)/composite if i want a wood look i just use a wood veiner
phil

 

[strangelove]

I would try the elliptical shape, I really like the shape of the Cayman HF2, easy up and down and side by side. Also add wings so the band is lined with the shaft.

 

[DivingDane]

i agree with Strange love a nice would gun in one pce, rear handle also in wood with the barrel shape similar to the Cayman HF or HF2 i think would be a winner.

if you were really nice you could make a Euro blue water gun ( a nice alround reef and small open water gun for Australia )

130cm band pull and 2x 16mm or 2x 18mm witha 7.1 or 7.5 finned shaft.

something that will through a Rob Allen 7.5mm mini tabbed shaft of around 1.8m would be perfect!

if you cant already tell this is the exact kind of gun i have been looking for but without success.

DivingDane


PLEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MAKE THIS GUN

 

[foxfish]

Phil, I was thinking about adding a track to make the cross but I will be using wood for the bulk of the construction.
Cedar is a lightweight hardwood that absorbs glue very well.
Mr love, ok good idea.
Dane, maybe!

 

[blaiz]

what about trying to get some lenth out of a smaller stock? since you are using the carbon fiber and will have the added stiffness maybe it would be fun to experiment with a 120 or 130 with a stock thin like a pipe gun?

Kinda just thinking out loud but when I use my riffe 130 I notice how much the bands bend the stock when loaded. I was curious about using CF in a build but laminating it within the laminates and mortising out a relief for it... forgive me but I dont have a whole lot of experience with CF:blackeye I just thought a bigger gun with the mass of wood, yet still thinned out might make a great blue water euro gun?

Curious to see how the build progresses!

 

[foxfish]

Blaiz, I dont have any experience with CF either!
I have worked with glass-fibre all my life & I figure it cant be that different to work with.
Anyhow next step is to order some of this CF stuff! Checked out EBay & it seems readily available just expensive.
I have plenty of epoxy but I will visit the saw mill tomorrow to sort out some cedar.
I have used pigments in my epoxies before & I notice carbon cloth is available in different colours - going to think about this tonight....

 

[DivingDane]

Blaiz, thats sounds like the ticket, basically what i was trying to say but i just got a little too excited thats all.

for the carbon colour maybe go red, i just think that the small amount of carbon showing through at to the ouside would like great glowing in a deep red colour, kind of like ruby or maybe even make the gun look more organic and alive with its "life" blood showing through just a little. would look beautiful.

low profile stainless steel trigger mech which sits flush with the stock, maybe consider using a kick up in the stock (like omer Cobra).

dammit getting axcited again.


DD

 

[foxfish]

Your words got me thinking - maybe I could make the exposed edges of the carbon flow...
They dont have to be straight - perhaps I could undulate the backbone?

 

[foxfish]

I found this [ame=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Carbon-fibre-red-dyed-polyester-cloth-Twill-1-2-MT_W0QQitemZ360227075225QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM?hash=item53df34f499]Carbon fibre/ red (dyed) polyester cloth Twill 1/2 MT on eBay (end time 16-Feb-10 20:07:55 GMT)[/ame] but I am not convinced it is Carbon cloth?

 

[blaiz]

Not that I doubt your ability or knowledge in the slightest... Ive seen what you are capable of but Just out of curiosity... dont you think cedar will be a bit soft... and light? What do you plan on finishing this masterpiece with?

 

[DivingDane]

Undulations in the carbon would look great!

not sure about the cloth know next to nothing about the carbon cloth materials, looks good and the price would suggest it is carbon but prob need to ask the seller a couple of questions.

i think the undulating carbon would definetly make it a really nice feature, maybe even try and carry on the red carbon look? carbon inlay of the gun name in the stock?

DD

 

[foxfish]

Blaiz, cedar is soft but I have used it in boat building projects & noted how the epoxy seeps into the grain. I think the epoxy will give a hard skin & the 2pac varnish I use is very tough.
The backbone will offer the strength the cedar will add bulk but not to much weight.
However you have a good point as this is only the planing stage everything is worth discussion.

 

[foxfish]

Looks like I might have some free time tomorrow, I think I have an idea on the guns shape so I am going to make a softwood mock up.
I am thinking stealth = like the radar defeating designs.

 

[jtkwest]

check this link for carbon fiber tape. they have a few differnt weaves, plus kevlar and cf woven together. all in "tape" which is like 2" wide,(perfect) also, i think cedar is a bad choice. its too soft and you will NEED the wood to keep the cf ridgid and vibration free. mahogany would be a netter choice, since it is light, yet hard, and takes glue well. and is inexpensive. http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...604&familyName=Festool+Router+-+Core+Box+Bits

 

[jayke]

jtkwest. me and my brother just finished his cedar gun about 2weeks ago. it turned out excellent we put 6layers of epoxy on , the first one just went into the wood. .we only had to ballast it in the muzzle area. i think it will work. but i suppose you guys are the experts

 

[foxfish]

The Cedar, as explained, will serve to add bulk & aesthetics not strength.
This is the kind of section I will be building from the carbon fibre pictured below.
In that case I used alloy the build can be found here http://forums.deeperblue.com/diy-homemade/72837-105cm-enclosed-track-composite.html

 

[foxfish]

I planed up a bit of softwood to use as a model, I have roughly marked out the design with angled edges & how the carbon backbone will work.
I am now thinking that red carbon against a black barrel would look cool but I still want to see the wood grain so maybe a black stain on the wood before an epoxy coating?
I think I could build a spear track into the backbone & also use carbon thought the handle, possibly build the backbone to house the trigger unit too.

 

[jtkwest]

you obviously know what you are talking about ,(as usual) cedar must be ok to use. i guess after enough epoxy, you could build the gun from powdered sugar and it would still work. but why CHOOSE cedar? without treating it, it would be about the WORST choice i could think of ,(except powdered sugar maybe ) it has no strength, it absorbs moisture like crazy. suppose you make this gun, eventually your son gets it. he decides to drill a couple small hole in it to mount a flashlight or camera on it. the sea water gets in there a little bit. and since you chose cedar, turns the gun to mush, from the inside out. with the amount of work you do on these guns. ,(and they look AWESOME by the way!!!) why not get some mahogany? or even teak.(dare i say it?) ***** if i lived on the same continent as you i might donate some decent hardwood, just to see what you can do with it. i have one idea for you though: in boat building, it is common to take polyester boat resin and mix it with acetone 30% ,(approx) ,(no MEK hardener, just resin) and brush it onto bare wood that you will be laminating later. the idea is: the thinned resin absorbs deeper into the wood than unthinned resin. the acetone evaporates in minutes, leaving the resin deeper in the wood than otherwise possible. sounds like you need to be doing something similar maybe? on a differnt note, could you explain how you cut these gun shapes? i mean, they are SO nice. my guns look like square blocks with spears on them,(i heard that somewhere) seriously, could you show how you reduce a square block to that triangular curved thing you got there. i know i'm not alone here in wanting this. help us american block makers . I want my guns to look like yours. i DONT want to use cedar however LOL(i dont care what you say on THAT one) the enclosed tracks i make , require alot of router work. and curved shapes dont lend themselves to router table work. but i have a cool router slide jig i made that can overcome this. maybe you could show a step by step ,(pic by pic) shoe on how you got this far with the SHAPE. i hope you wont take my debate positions ,(as wood choice is concerned) as critisism. its not. i just like to put my 3cents in . i REALLY like your posts and i definately respect your abilities and knowledge on the subject.

 

[foxfish]

Hey Jason your input is always welcome, sure I will post the stages of the gun build so you can see how I shape my guns.
I only use basic tools though, electric plane, small block plane, & a small electric grinder fitted with a sanding disc.
Next up will be the construction of the carbon backbone but I need to study the procedures & materials required to achieve this.