Q: Roller speargun recommendation for UK waters & fish?

[Mr. X]

Hi Rollergun users, I've come across a rollergun that interests me and it is on sale. Firstly, what would your recommend as a good length for a rollergun for UK waters (35cm, 45cm, 60cm, 75cm, 82cm, 95cm, 105cm or 110cm)?

BTW They are simple, single rubber rollerguns.

 

[Mr. X]

Secondly, I am generally happy with my current spearguns*, so what size do you think would complement my current spearguns, lightweight 75cm and 90cm Omer XXVs?

*I was disappointed with the power of my 75cm speargun for a couple of shots this year. The single 20mm band is old but I had already cut the perished ends off this year, getting rid of the most worn part and shortening the band by a cm or two, which usually increases the power a tad. But perhaps it was just a range issue, as switching to my 1x16mm 90cm speargun fixed the problem immediately. I'll likely replace the band on my 75cm now, so perhaps not an issue, I was never concerned about it before.

 

[Mr. X]

For the record, if making a suggestion myself, I would probably suggest the 82cm option as a great all round size for the UK which will likely out-shoot the 90cm gun while offering equal or better maneuverability. However, for several reasons, which I cannot entirely explain, I am tempted by the larger sizes 95cm or 105cm (the size range - 100cm-110cm - interests me), perhaps for clear water days.

Conversely, part of me thinks a short rollergun, 35/45/60cm, might turn out to be a great, compact "secret weapon" - by which I mean something that turns out to be more useful and versatile than might be expected and something that works when nothing else does.

For some reason the 95cm option interests me the most. It is the most expensive option but the price difference between sizes is not huge.

 

[Mr. X]

Realistically, I probably don't need anymore spearguns, the 75cm and 90cm options cover most conditions I encounter very well. I carry the 75cm by default and for poor vis. and save the 90cm for good conditions. However, I tend to spear in better conditions these days, for various reasons, so I plan to start carrying the 90cm by default in the future. However, some days something longer than 90cm would likely work better and somedays/some shots, something less than 75cm would work better.

I recall one Italian world champion won competitions sometimes using only a Cressi Commanche 60cm and Cressi Commanche 75cm speargun. I tend to think of 60 and 75cm sizes as very similar but clearly there is a difference, perhaps a significant one? I know a few spearos carry a 50cm pneumatic (significantly shorter than a 50cm bandgun but also more powerful) to cover a good range of short range conditions but penumatics never interested me. But perhaps one of the 35/45/60cm options could fill that low-vis/shorter-range/wreck/reef gap?

Do you plan to stick with your rollergun(s) or will you move back to a conventional speargun (or have you already done so)?

 

[Mr. X]

BTW Do you generally use a double-wrap (of spearline) or reel to make the most of the increased range? Any benefit to going for carbon barrel with a roller?

 

[popgun pete]

I don't dive in the U.K., but here in my local waters it can be cold and the viz can be poor, but what really matters are the fish to be shot and whether they are spooky or foolishly trusting. I have a Seatec 80 rollergun from Italy which is a nice gun and in a way it is a bit like a pneumatic being full length propulsion. As you have to pull from the muzzle I like my rollerguns to be short. This gun has a band stopper rather than a wishbone catcher which was a novel idea developed by Vacondio.

The bridge behind the rollers catches on stoppers on the bands so that the spear jerks free of the wishbone without lifting the spear tail up.

The Seatec rollergun has a three lever trigger mechanism, not necessarily a great idea, but it works OK. Something to be different as gun makers are always looking for some feature that sets their guns apart. Reliability and shooting straight and efficient handling are what you really need in a gun that suits you, forget about anyone else as you are the one who loads it and pulls the trigger.

 

[Kodama]

Regarding the size of the gun.
Size is in relation to range and power.
Range and power are in relation to visibility and species.
So that would be the question I ask myself when choosing a gun.

Furthermore I don’t think there exists something as a one size fits all. That is why I almost always carry two guns when diving with a float. It is easy to adapt to the situation.

If visibility is of lesser concern I guess you can get away with a larger gun in more situations. You will sacrifice maneuverability and you will be overpowered when hole hunting.

Is there a way of down powering the gun if needed?

The Italian champion using a 75 in most occasions has more to do with skills than anything else.
In the end that always remains the case, it’s not about the gun but about the hunter.

 

[popgun pete]

On a double or triple band gun you can always leave out cocking a band, but you really need to see how it shoots before using it that way. Also some guns can be shot off the forward spear notches or tabs, but I prefer to use another gun if I need to vary the shot and usually have two guns for the hunt. If I have been there before and know what to expect then I am armed accordingly. If the viz has turned to crap I usually leave my longest gun behind, but sometimes you can find it is clearer further out, so sometimes it pays to keep your options open.

 

[Mr. X]

Great insights, thanks. For UK 60-85cm for a rollergun would probably be optimal for general use but I am very happy with my current 75 & 90, which cover that same range. Also, unsurprisingly, the 85cm size sold out and is not on offer or available - I suppose that tells you something about which size British spearos are favouring

Re. Carrying multiple spearguns, I prefer to keep things simple as I normally walk into dive spots, even if the walk is sometimes short. However on two occasions recently I had to ask my son to fetch my other speargun. Once he gamely traversed sea cliffs and along a normally inaccessible breakwater with my longer speargun to get to me (he likes climbing ), bless him. More recently he brought my longer gun to me on a kayak! We were rewarded with a good size mullet almost immediately

Consequently, I plan in future to carry my longer speargun (90) by default, instead of the shorter one (75). Also to more often carry the second speargun on my float, which has straps for the purpose. However I often spear around rocks and don't want to trash my lovely carbon barrelled speargun on them.

 

[Mr. X]

Re. The band-stopper, does that address the slight Inaccuracy that I read most rollerguns experience for some specific reason? The rollerguns I am looking at are equipped with shark-fin spears, would that help?

 

[Mr. X]

The rollerguns that interests me most is available in 75cm & 95cm. There is another similar model available in a wider range of sizes, including 35,45,60,75,82,90cm.

A 60/75/82cm rollergun could simply replace my 2 current spearguns, very handy and versatile but not really my aim. It would be signicantly heavier to carry around and to track and slower to load.

I think a small roller, 35/45/60 would likely be the more useful complement to my 75 & 90 but for some reason I am leaning towards the 95. Perhaps because I have long hankered after a longer speargun 100/105/110 for Clearwater conditions but could never justify it figuring I would hardly ever carry such a long, specialized speargun.

I think I may favour a non-roller for a shorter gun (I just created a new thread to discuss short speargun options). Not sure why.

 

[popgun pete]

If you want a short gun then use a pneumatic as they are more powerful in short lengths than a band gun. A pneumatic strapped to your float is quite compact and there are no bands to flop around. I have used short pneumatic guns for close range shots for years. Band guns have the advantage of two hands for loading, but with practice pneumatic guns can be loaded once you get the technique down pat and 90 cm guns are not hard to load.

As for carrying guns some years back there was a “Speargear” gadget for toting another gun across your back to the dive site. You can make something similar out of webbing and plastic buckles. I made one, but it did not suit me, however others may find it a useful gadget.

 

[popgun pete]

Here is an annotated diagram showing how it works, the spear tip cup needs to be well made as it bears the weight of the gun.

 

[Mr. X]

I think there was a very short Russian pneumatic that had a waist/leg fitting or holster. I expect you've come across it.

Lengthwise, what size pneumatic would be equivalent to , say, a 50cm band gun? Or what size pneumatic would make a good short gun to carry on a float, or on your person?

 

[popgun pete]

The "Miniministen" is a good size to carry and is rated at 42 cm from memory. They can be carried in their holster, with modifications, on a second belt. No “quick draw McGraw” however, the gun and its spear are transported unloaded. The Seac Sub Asso 30 cm can be carried loaded in its special holster, but it is too small to be a good shooter and pulling a charged to shoot gun from its holster is asking for trouble, so I don’t recommend it. For experienced and cool headed users only, not excitable types, phlegmatic types make for the best divers.

Generally pneumatic guns shoot a shorter spear than an equivalent band gun, less so for a rollergun as there is no extra length forward of slack band length on a rollergun. The projectile is to be matched to the job, what shoots it is not so relevant, although a longer gun is closer to the fish and easier to aim than a short gun. The clearer the water then the longer the gun and your targets are generally further away, but not always as I have blasted fish so close that I drove the spear clean through them and left them fluttering like kites on the shooting line, but not for long!

 

[popgun pete]

The small Russian gun was the "Prizm", but it is an adaption of the Soviet "RPP" and useless for spearfishing, in fact it is for shooting people!!
Such guns give spearfishing a bad name and should be banned (and usually are).

 

[popgun pete]

This is a "Prizm" for spearfishing, ruggedly made, but of only medium quality as some parts are well made and others are rubbish thanks to the sloppy workmanship of disinterested workers who let down the efforts of others. Soviet era, the guns are better made these days.

The above are modern versions with plastic handles that do the job, cheap but cheerful guns that are still popular in Russia and Ukraine.

 

[popgun pete]

Going back to rollerguns there do not appear to be many short ones these days, but you could always cut one down if it just had a simple barrel tube. Now with inverted rollerguns, which are a different animal, rollerguns are getting quite long and benefit from split loading, but for close-up work a plain vanilla rollergun will work best in a short gun.

In the old days there were small rollerguns like this "Hurricane" from France.

 

[popgun pete]

Searching the past there is this small one here; https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/mini-rollergun.59969/

 

[popgun pete]

Thanks to a Spearboard member, here is some info on short rollerguns made by Koah (indicated with red arrows). https://www.koahspearguns.com/reef-roller-series.html