Q: Roller speargun recommendation for UK waters & fish?

[popgun pete]

The small Russian gun was the "Prizm", but it is an adaption of the Soviet "RPP" and useless for spearfishing, in fact it is for shooting people!!
Such guns give spearfishing a bad name and should be banned (and usually are).
View attachment 54982
View attachment 54983

No sooner than mentioning it and one shows up for sale! Jail rhymes with sale if you get my drift and are thinking of buying it as Customs will certainly intercept it.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage...m2626630722:g:ZZMAAOSw72JdZs47&frcectupt=true

 

[Mr. X]

Thanks CCSpearo, that's exactly the sort of information I was hoping for . Which model of speargun(s) are you using? Any thoughts on strengths/weakness of the model(s)/brand you are using? You sound pretty happy with them.

Re. Clamps, I've picked up a few vintage clamos carboot sales and charity shops over the last few years. The quality is in a different league to most cheap, modern, knock-offs but they are really heavy and lack the quick release features of some modern clamps.

 

[Mr. X]

DiveInn = ScubaStore.com (is that the dodgy webstore one in Spain?) has some big discounts and, at the moment, and another 15% off, for most products, for Black Friday with the discount code: 15BF That includes roller spearguns, such as the Salvmar range. For example this "Salvimar Wild Carbo Roller 95 Ref: (9749349)". Which appears to have a carbon fibre barrel, although the lump underneath is not, I think, a reel but just a big hook for the rubbers (they show it below with a Dyneema wishbone around the hook but I think I have seen images with an uncut rubber loop around the hook, hence its size and shape; easier to make rubbers for that and more rubber to power it that way but more cost for the extra rubber).

Supposedly already discounted 19% and then discount again with the 15% 0ff code for a final price (for the 95cm, carbon barrel, model) of £174.13 inc. shipping (to UK). More expensive than the Apnea Amarok roller but, inc. shipping, perhaps not that much more considering the highly desirable, lightweight carbon barrel?

Some decent deals on dive knives too.

Anybody used this roller speargun, or any other SalvMar speargun (quality/design/service/parts/support)? Opinions? Any thoughts on carbon barrels for roller spearguns? I would think it is a winning combination, as recoil is not an issue so mass is not required as it often is for large/powerful spearguns - or have I missed something?

 

[Mr. X]

It did occur to me that I should also consider a longer (e.g. 100cm/105cm/110cm), single or double-band, reverse-trigger, speargun instead. Cheaper, simpler and well proven, they have stood the test of time. Would a 95cm roller speargun "outshoot" a 100-110cm double 14mm bandgun? I would think it could have more power but would the accuracy match the longer barrelled spearguns? Perhaps the lack of recoil would help it to do so?

e.g. Cressi's various "Pacific" ranges (e.g. Comanche Ocean and Cherokee Ocean) look very well spec'd for my preferences (open muzzle, bulk rubber, Dyneema wishbones, sharkfin spears). Or the Apnea ST model or Salvimar Hero perhaps?

 

[foxfish]

Roller guns are not completely recoil free or perhaps better would be movement free but compared to a standard gun they hardly jump at all.
They are great to use and really fun to fire but not very popular for some reason?

We have a lot of keen youngish spearos In Guernsey and they love all the latest gear!
When we have the competition, I enjoy looking at all the latest kit these guys own, always surprised to see so many new items I never new existed!
Anyway.... there was a fad a few years back when there were loads of rollers guns on display but this year there were none.
The same with dry barrel guns but the fad was probably 10 years ago now.

This year the most popular guns are twin 14mm band 100cm wood guns, thin running line, reels and camera mounts.
Most guys carry a back up gun, 75 single band normally.

The buoyancy aids or floats are really high tech nowadays and expensive.

I love roller guns myself but I still use my 90 air gun most of the time, I like the simplicity of a single band, one wrap low power 75 band gun and I get huge joy firing a perfectly balanced high mass woody.
All nice weapons.....
I think you should try a roller otherwise you will never know which suits you best .

 

[popgun pete]

The simplicity of loading a two band standard gun is what makes them so popular, virtually anyone can load a standard gun as no great arm reach is involved. As no great arm reach is required to load a short rollergun that makes them popular for short range work. Reloading is a necessary chore, but most people are interested in hunting and shooting, they don’t want to spend much time on reloading. Same goes for pneumatic guns. Bluewater work is different as usually one needs a more powerful gun, fewer shots are taken and the trophies are larger, especially now reefs are depleted of the giant resident fish of the past. Consequently more powerful guns require more reloading effort and divers are more inclined to use more complicated guns as reloading frequency is lower and more rigging has to be sorted before hunting recommences. Shooting with two hands you don’t need a rollergun, shooting a powerful gun with one hand then you most likely will favour a rollergun because of the lack of jerk, but many will still use a conventional gun because it is relatively inexpensive and will do the job. The gun is just a tool.

A lot of spearfishermen don’t read forums, so the info there tends to not be reflective of what the majority of divers use.

 

[Mr. X]

Do you have to use a loading-assist rubber-hook combo - or a second longer, thicker wishbone - to load a roller speargun?

 

[popgun pete]

Not necessarily, you can grab the wishbone and pull it part way back and then move the gun butt to your hip or chest and then pull it the rest of the way, same as you do with a long band gun. Ultimately it depends on how long your arms are and how strong you are. Multi-band guns split loading by using small bands that are individually not that strong, same principle applies with rollerguns. More bands to pull back, then loading takes longer.

Cable guns or cable rollerguns need a hook if there is nothing to grab onto but thin cable. Guns such as the "Dreamair" will need a loader gadget such as the device developed for that gun.

Some of my guns use 3/4" bands, they take some pulling and you need to drop the wishbone in or if you get stretched out then your effort is lost. A rest tab helps, if you have one.

 

[sharkey]

Roller guns are a bit of a craze & I think everyone plays with a few at sometime in their spearfishing journey. They have an advantage on short spearguns for poor visibility & close range because they can get the same rubber stretch/power stroke of a longer gun. The problem is its the spear which hits the fish, not the gun & a longer spear is always better IMO. Mid handles are another option, by moving the handle in front of the trigger there is the same advantage in close range shooting, with the extra advantage of the longer spear.
With large "bluewater" roller guns, I dread seeing people turn up on extended trips with them. I know they will be borrowing everyone else's spare gear & guns within a few days if the trip is target rich. In the last half dozen week long, or longer, liveaboard trips I've been on I have only seen one person finish the trip using a roller gun (this guy built it himself & was very skilled on maintaining it). I would have seen at least a dozen fails with people who started the trip with lots of enthusiasm & confidence in their big multiple roller guns who then became totally reliant on the generosity of fellow travelers by about day three.

 

[sharkey]

It did occur to me that I should also consider a longer (e.g. 100cm/105cm/110cm), single or double-band, reverse-trigger, speargun instead. Cheaper, simpler and well proven, they have stood the test of time. Would a 95cm roller speargun "outshoot" a 100-110cm double 14mm bandgun? I would think it could have more power but would the accuracy match the longer barrelled spearguns? Perhaps the lack of recoil would help it to do so?

e.g. Cressi's various "Pacific" ranges (e.g. Comanche Ocean and Cherokee Ocean) look very well spec'd for my preferences (open muzzle, bulk rubber, Dyneema wishbones, sharkfin spears). Or the Apnea ST model or Salvimar Hero perhaps?

This is the gun I took to the UK last year. Because its a mid handle ,that 1000mm gun feels like its a 700, but with the advantage of the longer spear. Diving around parts of Ireland & Sth England there were many occasions I wished & had brought a 1200 or longer instead. I'm used to shooting much further than most usually will & I do a bit of pool testing with all my guns & although a short gun might be best for many in the UK, I felt really handicapped with this little gun in the visability

I experienced.

 

[popgun pete]

Roller guns are a bit of a craze & I think everyone plays with a few at sometime in their spearfishing journey. They have an advantage on short spearguns for poor visibility & close range because they can get the same rubber stretch/power stroke of a longer gun. The problem is its the spear which hits the fish, not the gun & a longer spear is always better IMO. Mid handles are another option, by moving the handle in front of the trigger there is the same advantage in close range shooting, with the extra advantage of the longer spear.
With large "bluewater" roller guns, I dread seeing people turn up on extended trips with them. I know they will be borrowing everyone else's spare gear & guns within a few days if the trip is target rich. In the last half dozen week long, or longer, liveaboard trips I've been on I have only seen one person finish the trip using a roller gun (this guy built it himself & was very skilled on maintaining it). I would have seen at least a dozen fails with people who started the trip with lots of enthusiasm & confidence in their big multiple roller guns who then became totally reliant on the generosity of fellow travelers by about day three.

Yes, it is not unknown for rollergun owners on a boat trip to swap their guns for plain vanilla guns if there are spare guns available, on some trips all the spare guns are in action while the rollerguns sit in their bags. Faster loading and shooting is the key, it takes little time to haul three bands back as the action is repeated, you are not flipping the gun on its back, etc. as you do with some rollerguns.

 

[sharkey]

Yes, it is not unknown for rollergun owners on a boat trip to swap their guns for plain vanilla guns if there are spare guns available, on some trips all the spare guns are in action while the rollerguns sit in their bags. Faster loading and shooting is the key, it takes little time to haul three bands back as the action is repeated, you are not flipping the gun on its back, etc. as you do with some rollerguns.

It happens 95% of the time. These guys roll up full of enthusiasm with the latest shiny toys. Next day they are in the water beside guys with experience & heavy multiple rubber guns with typically heavier & longer spears & much greater range & accuracy. My advice to the new chums is dont fiddle too much with their roller setups & keep confident, as confidence is the most important thing in this type of environment. But no, they go back to the mothership that evening & try to boost the power & rubbers to catch up to the old school bluewater type guns. Next day, "BANG!" something fails & they are scrounging the spare guns & spears of everyone (dont expect a thank you either). Here is where it gets really really funny, after getting their fish on borrowed gear they still get photos taken with the broken & failed stuff & upon return to civilization post photos & try to deny that the shiny gear they chose for the trip failed so dramatically. I must be getting old, but this is something my generation wouldn't have done as much I feel, we would have just moved on. It is a good laugh & very amusing.

 

[CCspearo]

Thanks CCSpearo, that's exactly the sort of information I was hoping for . Which model of speargun(s) are you using? Any thoughts on strengths/weakness of the model(s)/brand you are using? You sound pretty happy with them.

Re. Clamps, I've picked up a few vintage clamos carboot sales and charity shops over the last few years. The quality is in a different league to most cheap, modern, knock-offs but they are really heavy and lack the quick release features of some modern clamps.

My rollerguns are home made versions using searhornet trigger mechanisms and hand grip. I like them because the line release is on the trigger guard and does not interfere with the rollers. I have been using the open muzzle setup and find it slower to load than the closed muzzle. I am thinking of adding 20mm of stainless closed track with a slot for the sharks fin so I dont have to do the open muzzle rigging after each shot. My 100cm gun is a bit heavy at the front due to my over designed stainless homemade roller head. I am in the process of rectifying that by adding a couple of cedar wings to the sides at the front. When I first built the gun I had a problem with the wishbone grabbing the spearline and jamming it against the wishbone stop. I solved that by adding a clip to the side of the gun which keeps the spearline taught and off the top of the gun til the wishbone had passed. I have been spearfishing for 50 years and I am sorry these guns were not around when I was younger. I am totaly hooked on rollerguns, so many advantanges . As powerful as a multi rubbered gun but with no recoil, quickly adjusted power, more range and more accurate due to no recoil.
I built my first rollergun about 4 years ago I am now working on my 5th gun, a euro style with a 7mm shaft with long overhang and mares pistol grip mech which has the line release on the but of the grip. It should be good for smaller schooling fish up to 4kg.
I hope this helps.

 

[foxfish]

All good points but a 75 - 90 cm a single band, shop bought roller gun, is pretty basic and simple to use.
Depending on pre load force and band diameter, you don’t necessarily need any loading devices, just stick a finger in the wishbone, pull back and grab the band with both hands.
Monster rollers with multiple bands look really tricky and time consuming to load but I have never tried a multi band roller.

 

[CCspearo]

All good points but a 75 - 90 cm a single band, shop bought roller gun, is pretty basic and simple to use.
Depending on pre load force and band diameter, you don’t necessarily need any loading devices, just stick a finger in the wishbone, pull back and grab the band with both hands.
Monster rollers with multiple bands look really tricky and time consuming to load but I have never tried a multi band roller.

I don't see the point of multi band rollers unless you are hunting 600 kg tuna or marlin. My 100cm roller with 18mm bands is more powerful than my old triple rubber gun with 16mm bands. The roller is faster to load and more accurate. The recoil on the triple rubber coventonal gun made it very in accurate and if you needed to power down for a shot around rocks you had a loose ban flapping in your line of sight.

 

[popgun pete]

As "rollergun" describes many types you really need to describe what it is. My Seatec rollergun is loaded about as fast as a standard gun, but it is only one band to pull back, so not much more is involved. If you have a four band cable rollergun, or an inverted roller, then that takes longer to load, so for comparisons people need to understand what type of guns are being talked about. A lot of confusion and arguments stem from rollerguns which are quite different to each other being spoken of as if they were all the same thing.

 

[CCspearo]

As "rollergun" describes many types you really need to describe what it is. My Seatec rollergun is loaded about as fast as a standard gun, but it is only one band to pull back, so not much more is involved. If you have a four band cable rollergun, or an inverted roller, then that takes longer to load, so for comparisons people need to understand what type of guns are being talked about. A lot of confusion and arguments stem from rollerguns which are quite different to each other being spoken of as if they were all the same thing.

My 100cm rollergun is a standard rollergun with one unusual modification to give infinate power adjustment and that is a mini block and tackle . See the pic below.
I have also built a cable roller and a compound cable roller. I found the cable too hard on the hands and no real power advatange over the standard roller. I soon scraped them for parts.

 

[CCspearo]

My 100cm rollergun is a standard rollergun with one unusual modification to give infinate power adjustment and that is a mini block and tackle . See the pic below.
I have also built a cable roller and a compound cable roller. I found the cable too hard on the hands and no real power advatange over the standard roller. I soon scraped them for parts.

 

[CCspearo]

View attachment 55226

I have owned over 20 spear guns over the years and the 100cm and 75cm rollers are the best guns I have ever owned.
This is my 75cm with 3 pins for preload adjustment. I find at the first pin the gun has the power of a 110cm gun I rarely have to crank up the power. This gun is great for cave hunting and the range is much greater than a conventional 75cm gun.

 

[CCspearo]

I have owned over 20 spear guns over the years and the 100cm and 75cm rollers are the best guns I have ever owned.
This is my 75cm with 3 pins for preload adjustment. I find at the first pin the gun has the power of a 110cm gun I rarely have to crank up the power. This gun is great for cave hunting and the range is much greater than a conventional 75cm gun.