Q: short band speargun recommendations for UK?

[Andrew the fish]

My first speargun was Cressy SL Star 55. It was all I had for my first three years. I still have it and it still works like the day I bought it. I took a large number of fish, in fact I was blown away by my fishing success rate. But I prefer band guns now, I am even ok to put up with bulkiness and monstrous lengths, but IMO it is worth it. First problem with pneumatic guns is that line of sight is obscured with the gun itself, you cannot see the shaft, can't use it for aiming. It is a small problem because top of the tube can be used instead, it even has iron sights. But somehow I miss a lot more with air gun. If fish is medium size or small, and if you hold the gun close to face, it obscures the fish completely.

Second problem, sometimes big one, is the loud hammering of the piston when it hits the stop. Cressi is not so bad but Mares Sten was something I could not put up with. I could literally see all fish around me dashing a good foot every time I shoot. Keep in mind that hammering happens when spear is just about to clear the muzzle, so if you are shooting at distant fish it often turn into a miss. I eventually had to sell it.

The other problem is that you cannot have better performance out of it, can't upgrade your rubber or add another band, you cannot change anything about shaft length or diameter. You kind of stuck at certain, at mediocre at 55cm length, power. Power actually goes down with depth, keep that in mind too.

Good plus for pneumatic guns is ease and speed of loading. And the size of course. Good as a last choice backup gun, because they are so small and reliable. You know, like you have your main gun, back up gun, and last one is emergency backup, well that would be my air gun.

I outgrown pneumatic guns and you Mr X will be going backwards if you consider buying one after owning a small collection of band guns. I can foresee you not liking air guns one bit. Take your time in dive shop, handle it, aim it and see what I mean.

 

[popgun pete]

Each to his own, my "Sten" 90 cm has bumped off countless fish and so has my Scubapro “Magnum” 95, and the piston noise slamming into the muzzle did not save any of them. As for the others they soon regrouped and I shot them as well if they were the size I was after, especially if I had left them something to eat and keep them interested. Often the discarded remains of their former comrades after I beheaded and gut them in the water, hungry fish are not too fussy about what they eat.

 

[Mr. X]

Pity, I would find standardisation of pneumatics appealing.

Pete, I found a few reseller selling both Cressi Saetta and Cressi SL pneumatics for about the same price. What's the difference? Cosmetically the Saetta looks more modern, more Omer-like actually. Any preference?

Also, are power-down levers worth the additional cost/ complexity (for short pneumatics, say 55cm)? Do they ease loading?

 

[popgun pete]

The Saetta is just Cressi offering a new model after decades of selling the SL or Star, which is the same gun, but with or without the power regulator. In the Saetta they lifted the inner barrel up as high as it can go, but that was not really necessary as a pneumatic is shot using convergent line shooting most of the time. The muzzle ports on the Saetta are very large to minimize water braking during the shot and the handle has been designed to sit your hand grip higher as it needs to be not too far below the inner barrel axis to minimize recoil twisting the gun upwards in your hand with the shot. Otherwise they are very similar and both have trigger guard mounted line releases. Buying preference comes down to the looks, the SL has a long track record and has sold in the thousands, if not tens of thousands. Cressi has played safe with the Saetta, when they could have been more adventurous, and offer it with the same type of shaft as the SL and the Star.

You don't really need a power regulator on a short gun under 50 cm as the progressive loading feature will not be required as the ergonomics of loading are in the operator's favour, i.e. there is no great reach requirement while pushing on the loading handle. Reduced power comes in handy when shooting hard up against the rocks, you may blunt your tip but not smash it flat as you would with high power. At times you have fish which are capable of enormous acceleration and I had shot them in the rocks with the gun at full power and although I got the fish the removable tip was totally trashed. No big deal as I just replaced it with a spare tip stored in my wetsuit boot cuff and threw the damaged one away.

When you buy any gun you need a spare shaft and replaceable tips, integral tip spears are no good around rocks unless the pointy tip is replaceable. For example when I bought my Taimen I ordered 3 extra shafts and tips.

 

[Mr. X]

Brilliant response Pete, much appreciated.

 

[Mr. X]

Just re-read this thread - lots of good info. Andrew, I think you have the measure of me. I love the simple effectiveness of handguns. I put a lot of thought into my speargun choices, because I know my thoughts, experiences and preferences will be unique to me. And I can only use one speargun at a time and will have, at most just 1 or 2 with me in the water. But I really value the insights and experiences of others because I can't try all options and otherwise only have own limited experience to draw on.

Logically, I now believe the best (i.e. most useful/versatile) short-gun choice for me would be a medium size pneumatic, something like a 55cm Cressi SL Star. It would sit comfortably on my float, ready for when I start exploring narrow reef channels and weed-beds. That combination of small size yet high power is unassailable. The screw on spear head adds to the versatility and the head choices are ideal for a reef/cave gun. But, you anticipated well, my heart isn't in it currently. Although my preference keeps changing so might yet change my mind again.

 

[Mr. X]

I am actually considering buying 2new spearguns. Not to replace my current spearguns, which I adore, but to "bracket" them, providing for shorter and longer extremes.

At the long end, I'm thinking of a 90 or 95cm rollergun, OR a bandgun with reverse trigger and the potential to run 2x14mm bands. I've seen affordable options that meet that spec., whether it would actually see much use is a real concern.

At the short end, my current focus is on inexpensive 45cm bandguns. I found one very cheap which I really like the look of of but I would more likely opt for a slightly more expensive one with a reverse-trigger mech, which I figure gives an extra 5cm of band stretch, making it more powerful and versatile. Oddly, the construction quality looks better to me on the cheaper one and its thicker, threaded spear seems more appropriate than the fancier Tahitian spear on the slightly more expensive reverse trigger model. Hmm.

I'm thinking 45cm would be signicantly less compromised in power than the even cheaper 35cm options. But I am a little concerned that it won't be as good in the tight, short-gun situations that I would mostly grab it for. Hmm. The pneumatic of course could meet both needs without compromise.

Anybody out there used a 35cm or 45cm bandgun - what are the strengths and weaknesses?

 

[Mr. X]

Another option, which Pete helpfully pointed out on another thread I started yesterday, is the 55cm MVD Predator rollergun. I really like the look of it but it is not that short for a short-gun and might be over-powered for short-gun situations (an idea suggested on another thread by a member who had bought 2 rollers, I think something like 55 & 65cm or 60cm and 75cm; he loved the smaller one but found the larger one overpowered for his needs).

But perhaps it would be a better, more versatile, single speargun option than buying 2 new spearguns? The wife doesn't approve of me owning too many things, esp. spearguns, so buying just one new speargun would incur less wrath I have already gained pre-approval for 1 more speargun Important, as I don't want to have to sell my Omer XXVs.

I see MVD really promote their various 55cm options as compact and good for travel. Another option for that might be a pole-spear. Oddly, practical, inexpensive short polespears appeal to me less than fancy long ones - doesn't make sense.

 

[popgun pete]

Well you pretty well have all the necessary info, now it is up to you. The principles have all been discussed and ultimately it comes down to what you are shooting and where. My view, bar one's personal loading limit, is to work your way back from the fish. You would not shoot an elephant with a pea-shooter and an elephant gun would be too much for small fish. Long guns give a longer sight radius for aiming and are better for convergent line shooting, while short guns are quick to turn and are used where you can hardly miss if you know the habits of the fish. I have the full spectrum of gun sizes and use them according to the situation, especially if I know the area and have a good idea of the species and conditions that I will find there.

 

[Mr. X]

Thanks for all the help and insights Pete Thanks also for helping me get my own thoughts out and scrutinized

The idea of a 50cm/55cm roller became quite appealing, after watching the French MVD video. I've seen 45cm and 60cm railguns on offer now - probably great options for some but a tad short and a tad long respectivelyfor my current thinking. But I am currently still leaning towards getting a long roller to handle range/power needs above my current superlight 90cm, recognising that it might not see a lot of use. For some reason it appeals to me, perhaps because, in theory at least, it addresses most of the things that have stopped me buying a long (100-115cm) speargun in the past, as well as offering low recoil. I haven't ruled out a similar length, reverse-trigger, dual 14mm band gun though. And a cheap reverse-trigger 45cm band gun as a "cave gun" for close range situations, mainly because it would be hard to justify spending more under the circumstances.

I'll mull it over a little longer, and re-read the threads. I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger yet but soon. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[popgun pete]

Just to throw something else into the mix as well as a gun is the handspear or polespear. I rather like this segmented rollerspear from Russia.

keltvic Limited edition

keltvic.ecwid.com

This guy also makes a nice three piece handspear gun in either titanium or aluminium.

You can use less segments to shorten it depending on the hunting situation. I have a telescopic stainless steel Sea Hornet handspear gun which these gadgets are based on. In my first years of spearfishing I used handspears all the time as new divers were not trusted with guns if you dived with experienced men. You served your apprenticeship first until you were completely au fait with handling underwater weapons, the guns came next. New divers have sent shafts flying by me on a number of occasions as they fumbled with their new weapons, don't dive with beginners using powerful guns!

 

[popgun pete]

Gun designations can be misleading, for example these are all 70 cm guns with a "Ministen" at the bottom of 58 cm. The band gun is a Greek Balco-Sub “Thunder 70” which I bought for a friend’s son, but after some time using a handspear he tossed over spearfishing for surfing, thinking that spearing was not exciting enough, he being a rather hyperactive kid who could not sit still for more than 30 seconds. Slow paced diving involving patient searching with murderous intent in your heart was not for him.

 

[popgun pete]

The guns in the above photo are the afore-mentioned Balco-Sub Thunder 70, a Pelengas Z-linka 70 and a Cressi-Sub SL 70. The Mares "Ministen" is the short lived version with the plastic muzzle which only has three relief ports instead of the usual four which was intended to lower costs by reducing metal parts as much as possible by replacing a turned metal muzzle with a molded plastic one. Mares soon returned to using metal muzzles as if the plastic muzzle snapped then the muzzle nose and piston disappeared to parts unknown! In the 70 cm size a pneumatic can be more awkward to load, but with a 2/3 position handle you can load it like the short “Ministen” off your thigh, otherwise the stretch to load would be too great unless you had long arms like a gorilla.

 

[Mr. X]

Anybody using a small band gun, 35cm, 45cm, 55cm, 60cm -ish care to share some insights? Perhaps for eel or Mediterranean grouper (@spaghetti ).

Pete already mentioned a thick spear being a good idea for this short of close range/rocky use. I've seen a couple of shortguns with 7mm spears. The cheaper one with a threaded tip & double flopper, which looked like v. good set-up for this. Quality looked surprisingly good for low price. No reverse trigger but perhaps unnecessary at this size??

The more expensive one - but still quite cheap - had a reverse trigger, giving about 5cm more band stretch (power/range) - significant for a 45cm speargun. The quality didn't look quite as good but same brand, so probably similar quality. It has a 7mm regular Tahitian spear, which seems less appropriate/versatile to me, for such a short gun. It also has 16mm bands (bandsize on the cheaper option was not specified but probably 13, 14 or 16mm). 14mm rubbers sounds ok to me for a 35cm or 45cm speargun - but I welcome other opinions/insights.

Or perhaps these sizes are too small? Perhaps a 55cm or 60cm speargun or roller would be a better bet?

 

[Mr. X]

I like the look of the mid-handled pneumatic and interesting to hear that it aids loading. What brand/model is it?

I was quite interested in mid-handled bandguns for a while, for the murky conditions I most often encountered, but since then found myself enjoying better visibility and better accuracy with a longer barrel out front to point at more distant fish.

 

[popgun pete]

The mid-handle pneumatic is a Pelengas "Z-linka" 70 cm. It uses the Zelinsky trigger system whereby a valve rapidly opening fires the gun by the inner barrel moving a short distance forwards inside the gun. It is a very popular gun design used in Russia and Ukraine and many high quality and expensive guns use this system. It is a quick turning gun that has a slim tank, but is still a floater after the shot.

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[Andrew the fish]

Slow paced diving involving patient searching with murderous intent in your heart was not for him.

man, you have a way of saying it. LoL

 

[Mr. X]

Well I just ordered my short speargun. At 60cm, still reasonably long, so I suppose in future I might order an even shorter one, e.g 45cm, if I find a need.

I ordered an Apnea ST 60cm 2x14mm band speargun from SpearfishingStore.co.uk -- everything 30% OFF NOW!!!

I doubt if double bands are necessary or worthwhile for this size but it's a configuration I want to try. It might end up as a 1x16mm speargun (my current favourite configuration) in the future!

I posted some first impressions of the Apnea ST on another thread: https://forums.deeperblue.com/threa...ndation-for-uk-waters-fish.115883/post-989419

 

[Mr. X]

Perhaps I should have got a short roller, e.g. Apnea Whaler 60cm, and a long single or double band gun (e.g. 100cm Apnea ST or 110cm Omer Cayman carbon), rather than vice versa. So many options, so little time

 

[popgun pete]

I just took delivery of a titanium three section polespear/handspear from Keltvic in Russia, the one shown above in post #31. It is very well made and surprisingly light, although a heavy polespear has more punch if you are shooting something big. The polespear is supplied with two bands, a grey and a black one, the grey one being fitted. The tip thread used is a 7 mm metric thread and the titanium pole diameter is 14 mm. The three 70 cm sections give you a spear that is slightly over 2.1 meters long, that is without a tip. With just two sections it should be good for kids to use when poking around, plus the sliding friction trigger handle allows them to hold a cocked band. Experienced users usually cock the band immediately before striking, but kids don’t have that strength or the ability to hold a prolonged loaded grip so the sliding handle for them is a benefit. Otherwise one simply needs a centre flange to hang onto to prevent your hands slipping, especially if your gloves are slimy from handling previous victims.