Guys,
I been reading books & surfing alot on the net and when it comes to 5+ bands speargun or any speargun with more than 400 pounds of rubber pull, strong recoil becomes a factor. I been surfing for answer how to make the recoil kick dissapear or at least greatly reduced. Still no answer. I don't want to shoot 300+ pound tuna, I just like the beauty of mechanical engineering on big guns.
This forum has plenty of engineers............so, so......start the wild recoiless fantasy guys.
I know of CO2 guns of long time ago in books. About +-7 years ago an American company called Swivel Machine Works at one time made a speargun but they don't call it a speargun, I think they call it a harpoon. It was under fishery product, I think it might be used for whaling or something. It uses scuba compressed air at 3000 psi. It can be hose fed from ur scuba tank or a small mini bottle mounted on the gun. The advertise power is 800 something foot pound energy and the shaft is like 3/4" or at least 18mm from the photo. It comes in many version and there is one that looks like an M-16. It has shouder butt like any land rifle. This gun is unique cause you can change the barrel to make it function for different use. One of them is to shoot out those anchor hook for SWAT team to climb buildings. The other is to shoot a float ( probably inflatable type ) & line for man over board situation. With a payload of 1 kg something it can launch this float up to , I think 150 meters. Another barrel change turn it into archery rifle. Can't remember all the details. Selling at US$1,800 something. This gun I guarantee is close to recoiless. I wish I could afford it those days..........even today, I still can't afford it too...unless I don't go clubbing for a year ?????
Now the company only make a Ruger 77 converted to shoot arrow using .22 blank cartridge as the power source.
I am just curious why no one have created a recoiless band guns ? Have anyone known to try it ? Adding side stock and ballast and so on sounds primitive to me cause it doesn't sound like a Star Trek approach.
"Beam the shaft into that giant tuna Scotty "
America being a country full of resources and high tech engineering should come up with something to combat recoill.
Perhaps a fluid filled flexible mount on pistol grip that absorbs recoill the way fluid filled engine mounts work on certain high end cars works to absorb vibration and engine torque.
I don't believe but can not prove it that : recoill comes a 100% from the action-reaction thing ( Newton ? ) when launching a heavy shaft. Kitto website has that formula :
MS x VS = MG x VG
Mass of spear x Velocity of Spear is equal to Mass of Gun x Recoill
and thus ...bla...bla...bla
To those non- Einstein it means, if you launch out a dollar out of your wallet, a dollar less your wallet will have by the moment this one dollar left your wallet.
I don't attend CalTech, but I used to hang around at CalTex ( gas station ) often.
I believe, again can not be proven, that some of the recoill ( say 25% ...ok ok, 20%.......ok,ok, maybe 15% ) comes from the rubber itself snapping back into normal shape after being stretch 330% something. Why I am so sure of this : pneumatic guns are almost recoiless. If the shaft forward momentum is the major recoill maker, pneumatic must then recoill as bad as a band gun of the same power equivalent. I know they don't cause I use them many years.
I used to be a freak for precision airguns, I still have 3 damn good ones but can't afford new ones anymore cause they cost US$1000 and above for the high end ones. One is a recoiless 3000 psi scuba tank charged model. The other uses a gas ram system ( air spring ) instead of steel spring, the same basic design as any pneumatic speargun but the piston and air chamber is much bigger. The last one uses a regular spring for power source. The mentioned speargun recoill formula that the mass of the projectile x speed is equal to the rearwards recoill, it is not 100% true.
My 3000 psi charged ( PreCharged Pneumatic ) airgun has zero recoill while producing a pellet impact of 19 foot pounds.
My gas ram piston airgun has strong recoil cause the piston compresses the air from almost +- 1.2 liter air volume to nearly zero in the bore/chamber and thus this jet like air flow will push the pellet thru the barrel. This one has energy of also +- 19 foot pound. The recoill comes from the colliding of piston to the end of the air chamber, a very unique two way recoill cause the piston bounce more than once before stopping. Same recoill story with the spring piston airgun. The double recoil on my air-spring type airgun is strong enough to break aiming recticle of reputable telescopes like Leupold and Zeiss. The cocking effort on the air spring type can be as high as 40 pound using the break barrel design already in consideration of 60 cm of leverage effect to help. If say we need to load it like we do on pneumatic speargun by pushing a shaft into the barrel, I think very few people can ever load my air-spring airgun.
I like spring piston airgun as example because they are similiar to band guns. One use steel or air spring for energy source and the other elastic rubber. I know spring powered speargun exist last time. In fire arms the bullet has its on energy supply so not a good comparison.
Now, combined world wide sales of airgun is massive. Speargun in comparison is peanuts. UK is the design heaven of high end scuba charged pellet airguns, Germany is good with spring piston type. I guess where fire arms aren't allowed, people go for airguns. The good thing about having so much airgun shooters in the UK & Germany is that eventually some smart guy will come with a brilliant idea. Their quest was to remove recoill from the airguns. Now scuba charged airguns is the most succesful way of doing it but some brilliant engineers actually made recoiless high power spring piston airguns. One John Wiscombe of UK made a twin opposing spring piston design which is recoiless. Both pistons counter each other recoil. Sound simple but it was not that easy to make. Now he sells them at US$1,600 each and you need to wait at least 4 months to get it. Handmade gem.
RWS/Diana of Germany also has a recoiless ( not totally ) model which is available in the US for less than US$500.
Why can't somebody with good engineering background make a recoiless high power band/rubber speargun so that poor guys like me need not turn blue at 25 feet.
Imagine having a short 140 cm gun, small size, not too thick say between a Riffe and RA. Need no ballast, wings & stabilizer. Powered by 6 or 7 9/16 bands, shooting 30 feet lethal distance with 8mm (9/16") shafts and almost recoiless. Boy what a dream.
When NASA wanted to send man to the moon, they first thought it was impossible.
I would like to hear technical possibility from you smart guys.
Thanks
Iya
I been reading books & surfing alot on the net and when it comes to 5+ bands speargun or any speargun with more than 400 pounds of rubber pull, strong recoil becomes a factor. I been surfing for answer how to make the recoil kick dissapear or at least greatly reduced. Still no answer. I don't want to shoot 300+ pound tuna, I just like the beauty of mechanical engineering on big guns.
This forum has plenty of engineers............so, so......start the wild recoiless fantasy guys.
I know of CO2 guns of long time ago in books. About +-7 years ago an American company called Swivel Machine Works at one time made a speargun but they don't call it a speargun, I think they call it a harpoon. It was under fishery product, I think it might be used for whaling or something. It uses scuba compressed air at 3000 psi. It can be hose fed from ur scuba tank or a small mini bottle mounted on the gun. The advertise power is 800 something foot pound energy and the shaft is like 3/4" or at least 18mm from the photo. It comes in many version and there is one that looks like an M-16. It has shouder butt like any land rifle. This gun is unique cause you can change the barrel to make it function for different use. One of them is to shoot out those anchor hook for SWAT team to climb buildings. The other is to shoot a float ( probably inflatable type ) & line for man over board situation. With a payload of 1 kg something it can launch this float up to , I think 150 meters. Another barrel change turn it into archery rifle. Can't remember all the details. Selling at US$1,800 something. This gun I guarantee is close to recoiless. I wish I could afford it those days..........even today, I still can't afford it too...unless I don't go clubbing for a year ?????
Now the company only make a Ruger 77 converted to shoot arrow using .22 blank cartridge as the power source.
I am just curious why no one have created a recoiless band guns ? Have anyone known to try it ? Adding side stock and ballast and so on sounds primitive to me cause it doesn't sound like a Star Trek approach.
"Beam the shaft into that giant tuna Scotty "
America being a country full of resources and high tech engineering should come up with something to combat recoill.
Perhaps a fluid filled flexible mount on pistol grip that absorbs recoill the way fluid filled engine mounts work on certain high end cars works to absorb vibration and engine torque.
I don't believe but can not prove it that : recoill comes a 100% from the action-reaction thing ( Newton ? ) when launching a heavy shaft. Kitto website has that formula :
MS x VS = MG x VG
Mass of spear x Velocity of Spear is equal to Mass of Gun x Recoill
and thus ...bla...bla...bla
To those non- Einstein it means, if you launch out a dollar out of your wallet, a dollar less your wallet will have by the moment this one dollar left your wallet.
I don't attend CalTech, but I used to hang around at CalTex ( gas station ) often.
I believe, again can not be proven, that some of the recoill ( say 25% ...ok ok, 20%.......ok,ok, maybe 15% ) comes from the rubber itself snapping back into normal shape after being stretch 330% something. Why I am so sure of this : pneumatic guns are almost recoiless. If the shaft forward momentum is the major recoill maker, pneumatic must then recoill as bad as a band gun of the same power equivalent. I know they don't cause I use them many years.
I used to be a freak for precision airguns, I still have 3 damn good ones but can't afford new ones anymore cause they cost US$1000 and above for the high end ones. One is a recoiless 3000 psi scuba tank charged model. The other uses a gas ram system ( air spring ) instead of steel spring, the same basic design as any pneumatic speargun but the piston and air chamber is much bigger. The last one uses a regular spring for power source. The mentioned speargun recoill formula that the mass of the projectile x speed is equal to the rearwards recoill, it is not 100% true.
My 3000 psi charged ( PreCharged Pneumatic ) airgun has zero recoill while producing a pellet impact of 19 foot pounds.
My gas ram piston airgun has strong recoil cause the piston compresses the air from almost +- 1.2 liter air volume to nearly zero in the bore/chamber and thus this jet like air flow will push the pellet thru the barrel. This one has energy of also +- 19 foot pound. The recoill comes from the colliding of piston to the end of the air chamber, a very unique two way recoill cause the piston bounce more than once before stopping. Same recoill story with the spring piston airgun. The double recoil on my air-spring type airgun is strong enough to break aiming recticle of reputable telescopes like Leupold and Zeiss. The cocking effort on the air spring type can be as high as 40 pound using the break barrel design already in consideration of 60 cm of leverage effect to help. If say we need to load it like we do on pneumatic speargun by pushing a shaft into the barrel, I think very few people can ever load my air-spring airgun.
I like spring piston airgun as example because they are similiar to band guns. One use steel or air spring for energy source and the other elastic rubber. I know spring powered speargun exist last time. In fire arms the bullet has its on energy supply so not a good comparison.
Now, combined world wide sales of airgun is massive. Speargun in comparison is peanuts. UK is the design heaven of high end scuba charged pellet airguns, Germany is good with spring piston type. I guess where fire arms aren't allowed, people go for airguns. The good thing about having so much airgun shooters in the UK & Germany is that eventually some smart guy will come with a brilliant idea. Their quest was to remove recoill from the airguns. Now scuba charged airguns is the most succesful way of doing it but some brilliant engineers actually made recoiless high power spring piston airguns. One John Wiscombe of UK made a twin opposing spring piston design which is recoiless. Both pistons counter each other recoil. Sound simple but it was not that easy to make. Now he sells them at US$1,600 each and you need to wait at least 4 months to get it. Handmade gem.
RWS/Diana of Germany also has a recoiless ( not totally ) model which is available in the US for less than US$500.
Why can't somebody with good engineering background make a recoiless high power band/rubber speargun so that poor guys like me need not turn blue at 25 feet.
Imagine having a short 140 cm gun, small size, not too thick say between a Riffe and RA. Need no ballast, wings & stabilizer. Powered by 6 or 7 9/16 bands, shooting 30 feet lethal distance with 8mm (9/16") shafts and almost recoiless. Boy what a dream.
When NASA wanted to send man to the moon, they first thought it was impossible.
I would like to hear technical possibility from you smart guys.
Thanks
Iya