Records, records, records!

[azapa]

I was there for both Herb's and Will's records, and I can say they were both full effort dives, no playing for the press or sponsors.

In Herbert's case he had never been at that depth before, but felt so strong at the event he "just did it" and has such an awesome apnea that he made it. I know he could have put 5m more on there had the event been a little longer, and the pole spearing been a little less tempting.

Will is a far more conservative, studious and serious training athlete and knows his limits, and always dives very close to them. CNF too of course is a different ball game.

The fun IMHO is seeing how different athletes approach these amazing dives. No two are the same. Martin is an exceptional diver too and will surprise us all. He already did with 119.8 with a mask

Let the fun begin!

 

[ILDiver]

BTW, I do realize that sometimes just getting that additional meter is a lot of effort, the diver is pushing it. I'm just putting my point of view out there. For all I know these divers are hitting and pushing their limits. If they are taking the record back and pushing themselves for pride, great. But maybe train a few more months and use that drive to set the bar a little further out?

I'm not in the biz, so nothing I say matters. Again, just offering my pov.

 

[Walrus]

ILDiver, I suggest you try diving an "unimpressive" 88m without any fins !

Will T improved on the world record by 2m not 1. He wasn't actually having the best competition with a poor leadup to the comp and also being the organiser he was very busy and no doubt added to the stress compared to those only competing. The training conditions leading up to the comp were pretty poor, with only 5m vis or less for many weeks. It's all very well to sit back in an armchair and say Jo Blo only beat it by x meters but unless you are there you have no idea about the circumstances behind it. Competition is about what you can do on the day despite the conditions/pressures and your own physical/mental state, it's not like a training PB.

Cheers,
Wal

 

[BennyB]

Just to add to the "1m or 10m increment", "sponsor friendly vs athlete potential" sort of stuff.

Most WR increments are small (1 or 2m) because, they are world records and there's a small handful of people in the world capable of reaching them, let alone beating them, so by nature the increments are going to be small because the athletes physically can't beat them by large margins.

Taking Constant Weight as an example, since 2006 the record has moved from 106m to 108m, 109m, 111m, 112m, 113m, 114m before the big 6m jump to 120m. Of these 8 figures only half were set in competition (if you consider record attempts outside of comp tend to have more sponsorship emphasis).

Now, from a record attempt out of competition point of view, it makes sense not to extend the record too much so you can maximise exposure. Makes sense, yes?

Then why did Martin take the Constant Weight No Fins record in 2005 from 66m to 80m, an increase of 14m? Because a sponsor prefers a record smashed instead of merely broken? Or an athlete eyeing a target that takes them to the brink of their abilities?

Six on one side, half dozen the other.

Food for thought anyway. I personally believe that Martin will be quite sensible and do what he knows he can based on his training over the last 2 weeks. 400ft is a nice round number but remember that most of the world is on metric and don't care about feet and inches. I don't think Martin will lock in a safe record (121m) and then try and do something completely outrageous that he hasn't done in training (eg. 128m+). My guess would be a final number of 124m. But that's more of a hunch rather than based on anything too specific.

And what about the other disciplines, with all the training in CWT I doubt he'll have time for an attempt in No Fins. FIM maybe, but I can't remember if he's nominated that.

In any case I wish Martin the best of luck in all his dives.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[nostres]

My dear Chris!


To get close to any world record takes enormous amount of hard work and dedication. To match it is huge success already. But to beat it by 1m is reserved only for few people on the planet, because that's how hard it is.

Do You really think that before dive they wonder "should I beat it by 1 or 5 meters?"

 

[ILDiver]

Walrus, you read way more into it that I ever said. I said seeing the record pressed 1m was not impressive to me. I did not say the dive was not impressive or that it was easy. Read all of my posts, I state it clearly that I understand how far 1m really is, especially at that depth. But he is besting his own record. His name is in the books. So keep training and come back when you can put some room on it and shock the world. W.T. is not an old dog, he has time to train. It was not a personal attack on W.T., so please don't treat it like one.

This all started with the comment above of it being a buisness and more sponsor money for small increments. I think that is a poor reason to step the record. That was my original point. Not towards any one diver, just in general.

So I stand by what I said. I want to see Martin put a big stamp on this record, Just like Herbert did.

 

[ILDiver]

Peter please read the posts. I understand what 1m means. Read where it started on a statement of it being smarter to go 1m at a time to stretch out the dollars from sponsors.

The statements about W.T. I will not back off of. He bested his own record in the same event, I understand that, then a year later adds 2m to his own record. If he then beats his own record by 1m 6 months from now... I would not care. It would be like watching someone train. If someone takes the record from him and he takes it back, it's a different point of view then (as a fan of the sport). But if he comes back in 2 years and puts 5m on his own record, that is more interesting to me (as a fan of the sport)

 

[chrismar]

Peter please read the posts. I understand what 1m means. Read where it started on a statement of it being smarter to go 1m at a time to stretch out the dollars from sponsors.

The statements about W.T. I will not back off of. He bested his own record in the same event, I understand that, then a year later adds 2m to his own record. If he then beats his own record by 1m 6 months from now... I would not care. It would be like watching someone train. If someone takes the record from him and he takes it back, it's a different point of view then (as a fan of the sport). But if he comes back in 2 years and puts 5m on his own record, that is more interesting to me (as a fan of the sport)

I understand what you're saying, but guys like Will are doing what they're capable of whenever they get a chance. You have to understand that during Vertical Blue, other athletes may have tried to wrest it away (Will W, Herbert) and he only gets one or two shots at big dives in a year. It's not a case of trying to get the name in the record books as many times as possible, it's always doing the biggest dive you can. It's not as exciting for you perhaps, but these guys are generally diving for themselves, not anyone else.

Having been a part of world record-setting competitions, I can tell you that it's tough on competitors. At least here in NZ, the athletes wear most of the cost associated with the attempt (the doping test alone is 500 euro) and train hard to try to peak at the right time. It usually doesn't happen, so combined with the stress of all that attention and expectation, you can knock ~10% off of their PB in many cases. I can promise you that Guys like Dave Mullins & Kathryn McPhee do not hold back their performances 'to make their sponsors happy'. Firstly, they pretty much don't have any and secondly they lose several thousand dollars to get the event organised. All these world record-setting athletes have day jobs (usually nothing to do with freediving) and often it costs them a lot to train and complete these dives. Saying that it's not interesting and they should push their dives out further is your opinion, but I consider it a bit insulting for those that have worked so hard and given up so much to push out the limits of human capacity.

</rant>

 

[ILDiver]

If I was at the dive and watching it, it would be completely different to me to watch the dive. It is an impressive feat. I like to watch friends pass their PB's too.

If Will goes and sets the record 1m further once a month for the next year, that is an impressive progression. But I still would not be interested in reading about it until someone new set the record or was involved in the race (hopefully Martin will do just that soon). I'm not saying he is not a good diver. I'd go to a course of Will's if I had the chance. I would have felt different if it was Martin because I know him and to see him improve his PB is different. I don't know Will, never met him. So when I saw he beat his own record, I didn't read the article, just the new depth. If one of the guys I dive with gets to 100' I'm impressed.

I think to much is read into the word impressive. (I'm sarcastic by nature, yes I'm being a smart ___ here -->) Maybe I'm not as well connected to the sport as you are, so I will just never understand, your right... As Walrus said I should go out and try it myself, SHESH! I just have no concept of how hard this stuff is, I'm just that dumb, who do I think I am.

Remember, this started as a discussion of stepping a record 1m for sponsors and not pushing a record to far so you can milk the depths for money. I would hate to see that be the mentality towards diving.

 

[chrismar]

The majority of my post was explaining that divers aren't doing that. I can't speak for all, but given how long it's been since Martin has had a chance to try for a record, I believe he will do the best dive he can under the circumstances. That's the case with just about all the divers out there. There may have been cases of it happening, but don't condemn every 1m gain out there as an attempt to milk money out of sponsors. I can promise you that there's just not enough sponsorship money out there, even if you wanted to.

 

[surfunc]

I'm no expert here but I wouldn't think any diver would leave anything on the table if given the option. You never know which dive will be your last since there is always a chance of something non-diving related ending your career (like getting swine flu, pneumonia, and a collapsed lung for instance). I don't think that these guys want to look back on their career and know that they could have put the record deeper but didn't just because they wanted to bump up the records one meter at a time. Just like with many other things in life you may have reached a peak that you may never reclaim again. Just my two cents...

 

[kelp princess]

I don't have any backstage info, but I would guess that although Martin is certainly capable of doing a pretty important improvement of the current record, I would bet he adds just a meter or two. Being a business man, I think he does not want to make it too difficult for others (and for himself too), to break the records soon again. Having frequent records is much more fun than waiting for new ones for years, And it also triggers more interest from sponsors, so why finishing the race prematurely?

But then again, I may be completely wrong

hi trux - i actually disagree with the notion that any competitive freediving athelete - but especially someone like Martin - would worry about about making a 'record too difficult' for himself or others to break. i think that most of the freedivers are mostly competing with themselves - and breaking through to new PB's that yield WRs are just icing. it is about the performance and reaching a new depth/time etc. we all want to do the best that we can - it's human nature

i think sponsors would rather have a well-known, well-regarded, authentic personality (i.e someone like Martin) who can produce a feat that no one else can - or that no one else can for a very long while. the longer a freediver can hold their record, and fend off incumbents, the better brand extension they offer for their sponsor.


using Martin as the example:
the longer Martin can tout that Martin and Martin alone can do something, and whether it be over the course of a year or two years or three years - whatever the time period is, every time someone attempts to beat Martin's WR they are being measured up to Martin - Martin will be referenced. The benefit for any of his "sponsors" is that brand association with his elite performance. i think the more attempts on a WR there are from a variety of people, the more excitement there is for the sport. i think the field is bigger than it has been in the past but it is still a relatively small field.

what i think is even more exciting, especially as of late, is to witness the different types of athletes and their unique styles in approaching their discipline.

i don't think that freediving suffers from the glitz and the glare of other professional sports, and i may be simply projecting based on my own experiences and love for freediving, but i really do believe there is a purity and an introspective nature that makes the people who participate both more contemplative and appreciative. and i think all freedivers respect, support, and admire what their peers achieve.

it sure is fun to watch from the sides - and thrilling to see bounds being stretched


and i have to close by reminding you gents, that the ladies :martial may very well be adding to the awesome mix this month, as we may see/hear new records from Mandy-Rae in Cayman or Sara Campbell in Egypt.

good luck to everyone!

kp

 

[trux]

Well, personally I see nothing wrong or unsportive in small increments. Quite oppositely - I find it rather fair, not greedy, and not egocentric like it could be sometimes looked at when trying to secure the record for every price with a big margin. Well that told, in fact it all only depends on the angle you look at it - I have nothing against any of the two approaches. And if someone is able to move the record even just a meter just after it was increased by 7m, is as much impressive to me as the previous big step, despite the small difference.

BTW, since a few minutes, there are some new photos and videos on Martin's website. It's an interview with Martin. Depth announcements should come shortly.

The photos/videos are in the Czech part only, at this moment. The English versions will come later. My soundcard just gave up, so I cannot tell you what he tells in Czech anyway You may need to wait for the English version.

Martin ?t?pánek - world record 2009

 

[efattah]

<shaking his head after reading thread>

What I will say is that the current record of 88m CNF is far more difficult to break than the 120m CWT. If Martin wants to make a constant weight record that will 'last some time', he needs 140m+. If he wants to make a CNF record that will last some time, he needs about 92m.

 

[rxcnc2]

What I will say is that the current record of 88m CNF is far more difficult to break than the 120m CWT. If Martin wants to make a constant weight record that will 'last some time', he needs 140m+. If he wants to make a CNF record that will last some time, he needs about 92m.

You may be right, but what precisely makes you say that? While I do see that the athletic effort required in CNF is greater than that of CWT, I also see that this latter has more exposure to narcosis and the problem of equalization. I think the slower progress of depths in the CWT records could be due in part to the fact that fewer athletes have trained and attepted them regularly. Hopefully this will change, as CNF is indeed a splendid discipline.

Incidentally, I remember a time when depth records were considered as such only if they had an increase of at least 2m over the previous one. When we are considering depths of 100+m, I think the precision of the measurements needs to be carefully evaluated.

 

[ILDiver]

Latest video the team has measured out to 131m.

 

[trux]

OK, so Martin announced 122m for today. Good luck!

 

[Goran Colak]

when is the official top?

 

[roberto.apnea]

Hi Goran.....when WAS the official top...... I have my friends in Sharm... :t

 

[trux]

Great! So Martin did 122m CWT. Let's see what's next on the schedule