Relaxation vs. Pre-dive stress for max performances

[tcrusson]

In forum posts you often read that Freediving is all about relaxation. Sebastian Murat already demonstrated that stress plays a big role for maximum performances, but it looks like his ideas are still marginal.

I wrote a small blog post on my experience with pre-dive stress and how I think it helped:
Article: Ready, Set, STRESS!

It does not look like it's working with everyone, as I've seen with some of my training buddies. Anyone else getting a good outcome from insane anxiety before a perf?

 

[efattah]

In my early diving career, pre-dive stress had a major negative effect. After some years of diving, it had the opposite effect.

I have seen the same with others. It appears that after a certain number of years of diving, a switch is flipped, and once it is flipped, stress has the same effect on us as it does on seals (to conserve O2) whereas in the less trained person, it seems to just burn more O2.

A good example was when I discovered in 2008 that diving while pinching my nose was much better than using a nose clip. The only difference was the stress of pinching my nose, and knowing that if my hand even slipped my sinuses would flood. In fact pinching my nose was much less hydrodynamic, but still resulted in better/deeper dives.

Using stress to your advantage can definitely accelerate burnout though.

On PB attempts in competitive deep diving, all the stress happens before the dive. Once I get below the surface, I feel it is finally over, all that is left is the easy part, run on autopilot. This correlates with your 'stress reversal' concept. Similarly, if I am super relaxed prior to the dive, then the dive itself becomes stressful.

 

[trux]

It does not look like it's working with everyone, as I've seen with some of my training buddies. Anyone else getting a good outcome from insane anxiety before a perf?

I always performed much better under stress in competitions than in training. However, the difference is that since the beginning I knew that stress was positive, and was not afraid of it. Unlike what you tell, I think it works the same (or close to) for most people, just some of them are not ready to accept the changes induced by the stress, and either chicken out in the situation that is new to them, or are not careful, and hyperventilate too much. Stress alone causes subconscious hyperventilation, so if the athlete is used to hyperventilate voluntarily, and adds another layer, he becomes too alkaline before the start, and either has to stop early due to hypoxic signs (if he is experienced and able to spot them), or prematurely blacks out without seeing it coming.

 

[watts]

I remember talking to Seb once and he showed me a printout of a dive he did with a heart rate monitor on exhale diving down to something like 30m with what i thought was a low heart rate as he accended a boat past over him engines blasting sending him back down some. After the dive and getting to read the results from the dives he found that instead of his heart rate rocketing it rocketed down.
That turned alot of the ideas i had up until that point on their head and since then tryed to maximise my DR and while still keeping calm and staying motivated which is not easy.
Apart from regular breaks and motivational stuff anyone have any ideas to help with this approach?
Nat.

 

[tcrusson]

Unlike what you tell, I think it works the same (or close to) for most people, just some of them are not ready to accept the changes induced by the stress, and either chicken out in the situation that is new to them, or are not careful, and hyperventilate too much.

Makes sense. However, the part I'm most intrigued about is not the fact that we can swim further under stress, but what Eric pinpointed as "stress reversal". The really surprising part for me is that on entry in the water, within a few seconds, the stress just vanishes to be replaced by mental and physical clarity and control - which never happens otherwise. You can't chicken out in that situation, it just feels right.

That is what differs with some of my dive buddies: what they get when they are anxious out of the water is anxiety during the swim.

I believe that feeling in control and free of doubt early in the swim, with contractions starting later, is an incredible advantage when going for a big swim: the fight is limited to where it is needed, as opposed to the usual useless daemons waking up early on: "today's not feeling right", "I should just abort", and all that crap.

 

[watts]

I also find if i treat my dynamics like a cwt dive in that there is no out and total comitment to a distance as if i were in a tunnel and couldn't come up before changes everything .It makes the pre dive stress higher but once commited a higher focus is posible.

 

[picasso]

I also find if i treat my dynamics like a cwt dive in that there is no out and total comitment to a distance as if i were in a tunnel and couldn't come up before changes everything .It makes the pre dive stress higher but once commited a higher focus is posible.

Have you tried it and improved your PB this way? Thanks.

 

[watts]

Yes and i found that by looking at previous max attempts and remembering my successes it gave me confidence for the next attempt which i would try to incrementaly improve on. Although it seemed to work realy well short term it was hard always having to perform not giving myself an out so i had to visualize the dives as if there was no out but release all control on the dive and tell myself to do my best and stick to the plan and come what may.
One thing i did find with taking this direction was that i had programed myself to have these high stress preps to maxs but when i did shorter non maxes the stresses were still there although lesser. Is it a price im willing to pay to do greater distances ,times or depths or should i go back to my earlier calm drift off dives and enjoy the experience more?

 

[picasso]

i see watts. It looks like you had troubles to keep real max dive and you pulled out before you very realy hypoxic. Am I right? Question is if this is right approach for divers who makes max dives close to samba. i can visualise the dive and pretend that I am in tunnel but when I feel hypoxia i have to come up before my body would do it after getting BO . I try it anyway to test stress element. Let me ask you what is your PB of discipline, in which this helped you?

 

[Mullins]

I tend to do a similar thing Nathan. A CWT ascent is much harder than any part of a dynamic, yet I'm always able to get through it because I have to. So I often treat the black line on the bottom of the pool like a descent line that finishes at, say, 250m.

 

[efattah]

I hate dynamic, it feels terrible to hold my breath at atmospheric pressure. The benefit of constant weight is that you have very high oxygen pressure, which makes the urge to breathe feel much better, like a pure oxygen static, for example.

In dynamic I usually abort around 100m shortly after contractions start.

Plus my lungs are bursting from the packing, making it feel even worse. Compared to constant, when the lungs are nice and small.

 

[picasso]

I hate dynamic, it feels terrible to hold my breath at atmospheric pressure. The benefit of constant weight is that you have very high oxygen pressure, which makes the urge to breathe feel much better, like a pure oxygen static, for example.

In dynamic I usually abort around 100m shortly after contractions start.

Plus my lungs are bursting from the packing, making it feel even worse. Compared to constant, when the lungs are nice and small.

I have this feelings after some 2-3 weeks of sickness or some pause when I don't do stretching and packing stretching. Then I don't pack so much as usual and encreasing packs after each max dive.

But it is not certainly your case Eric . Anyway I would pack less if I felt such bursting pressure.

 

[watts]

i see watts. It looks like you had troubles to keep real max dive and you pulled out before you very realy hypoxic. Am I right? Question is if this is right approach for divers who makes max dives close to samba. i can visualise the dive and pretend that I am in tunnel but when I feel hypoxia i have to come up before my body would do it after getting BO . I try it anyway to test stress element. Let me ask you what is your PB of discipline, in which this helped you?

No not at all these are max dives usualy after having had a break and after some technique training i usualy do a max on most sessions followed by specific drills. No interval training at all just maxes and very short easy technique or say arms only with drouge. My philosophy is i dont want to samba or blackout and try to progress the best i can while still pushing it.
Sure you still have to read your bodily signals and adapt acordingly but with very regular maxes improving slowly i find it very predictable.
I basicly wanted to steal all the ideas i learnt from Seb and try to adapt them to inhale in the pool so no mask ,warmup, noseclip, facial immersion pre dive with maximum anticipation full focus dives.
I have used this for first frc static followed by nofins towing a drouge then a nofins cycle and two dynamic cycles. I dont think comparing distance is important as everyones circumstances and oportunities are uncomparable.
At the moment im trying to find a balance between what i know works well for me (high stress dives) and what will be good for me long term like fun relaxing dives. I dont know if i can have both.

 

[chrismar]

Try to set up your training so that both are included specifically. In other words, have (for instance) a performance session on Tuesdays and a fun session on Thursdays. That way you know that on Tuesday you have to mentally focus and expect to do a big dive, while on Thursday you arrive knowing that you'll be doing fun training - like single kick lengths or underwater races. I think the key is that mental separation.

The majority of competition divers do fun diving too - be it spearfishing, underwater hockey/rugby, freediving photography or whatever. It's not detrimental to your training as long as you don't overdo it and it helps you stay balanced and reduces the chance of mental burnout.

 

[watts]

Its a time thing too trying to fit in the pool and regular depth training.

Another plus for this type of approach to maxs is that ive found i get no contractions or little, very little lactic during the dive but a massive lactic kickback after followed by what feels like shivers but probably Co2 shakes or reactions to high endrophin levels. Anyone else experience similar?

 

[picasso]

I tried your approach yeasterday for dnf. I tried to imagine that i can't get out earlier than some distance. I felt no extra pain during the dive and I felt it after arriving home . But it didn't help me as distance concerns. I try swithing approaches by doing no expectation easy max dive and some more stresfull one.

 

[watts]

It may be something that requires time. For high stress dives Seb used to set things up to go wrong during the dive to enhance stress. Things like new pool ,different end start, new people etc can all increase effects.
A heart rate monitor was instrumental for me to see the different effects nomask, noclip ,wetsuit,cold,stress. They all play their part in this approach.

 

[chrismar]

I recommend being a competition organiser as well as competing if you'd like stress...

 

[Mullins]

You're welcome

 

[watts]

Tough gig eh. There's stress then there's self sacrifice. Not many people put their hand up for that. With the lack of this type of individaul their is little to nothing happening in Australia.
Good one bro.