Roller Gun Power Boost

[Nicko]

I originally rigged this to simply de-power the gun as I had bursitis in my shoulder and had trouble loading. I'd let line out through the pulleys, load the rubbers onto the spear (with ease) then effortlessly power up the rubbers by hauling through the pulleys again and cleating off. But I kinda like it as I can easily max out the bands all the way to the reel for blue water & 7.5mm shaft or back them right off to switch to 6.7mm shaft for rocks & reef.
Beauchat Carbon 950mm
Manny Sub Roller Head
16mm MannySub bands @480mm
7.5mm Adreno Shaft 1300mm
6.7mm Beauchat Shaft
Shot this Kingy from about 4m and watched the shaft fly straight through like he wasn't there!

 

[CCspearo]

I originally rigged this to simply de-power the gun as I had bursitis in my shoulder and had trouble loading. I'd let line out through the pulleys, load the rubbers onto the spear (with ease) then effortlessly power up the rubbers by hauling through the pulleys again and cleating off. But I kinda like it as I can easily max out the bands all the way to the reel for blue water & 7.5mm shaft or back them right off to switch to 6.7mm shaft for rocks & reef.
Beauchat Carbon 950mm
Manny Sub Roller Head
16mm MannySub bands @480mm
7.5mm Adreno Shaft 1300mm
6.7mm Beauchat Shaft
Shot this Kingy from about 4m and watched the shaft fly straight through like he wasn't there!
View attachment 40992 View attachment 40993 View attachment 40994 View attachment 40995

Brilliant idea I have a 1m sea hornet magnum converted to a roller gun with 480mm x 18mm bands and at 61years i can just max it out. that pulley system would make a difference as I slowly age into a withered old spearo. I wish they had rollerguns 55years ago when I started I'm just finishing building my forth rollergun (3 for me 1 for my buddy) I love em!

 

[CCspearo]

Brilliant idea I have a 1m sea hornet magnum converted to a roller gun with 480mm x 18mm bands and at 61years i can just max it out. that pulley system would make a difference as I slowly age into a withered old spearo. I wish they had rollerguns 50years ago when I started I'm just finishing building my forth rollergun (3 for me 1 for my buddy) I love em!

 

[CCspearo]

Brilliant idea I have a 1m sea hornet magnum converted to a roller gun with 480mm x 18mm bands and at 61years i can just max it out. that pulley system would make a difference as I slowly age into a withered old spearo. I wish they had rollerguns 55years ago when I started I'm just finishing building my forth rollergun (3 for me 1 for my buddy) I love em!

that should have read 50years ago I was 11 when I speared my first fish a leatherjacket in in lake Macquarie NSW Australia with a homemade handspear (a piece of dowel with 3 prongs bound on to it and a big rubber band 20mm wide that I sourced from the news agent.)

 

[Nicko]

I changed the blocks to Karver KBO1's (hard to get a hold of) as they rig closer together, maximising the available distance to stretch bands. I like the way they have no becket and simply shackle through the sheave.

Here you can see the clam cleat simply screwed into the handle. Its a three part pulley system so the hauling line pull is very little now and this cleat is ample. The block is simply tied to the reel with doubled dyneema reel line.

The lashing blocks can be easily fixed to bands the same way you would make a dyneema bridle

A large knot stops the hauling line through the block. This is my minimum power setting and will shoot a 6.7mm shaft on the reefs with. Its probably a bit over powered for that size shaft but it works fine. There's enough line there after the knot to grab and haul on.

Minimum power

Maximum power...Ooo Yeah
The bottom bands nearly level with the top one! You'd have a hard time loading that without the pulleys. Well I would anyways. You can get %400 out of your bands (if they are good for it!) this way...
There's 800mm of line behind the cleat there and I just let it flap about. It doesn't get in the way or catch on anything and never slips or accidentally de-powers

Manny Sub Roller power head. They do several adapters to suit different barrel diameters. I would have fitted the MVD roller muzzle but they only fit RA size gun barrels. It's a great muzzle though. Never had a muzzle wrap/line jam and the kit come with everything you need including bands, constrictors, bridle etc. Wayne Judge @ Adreno Brisbane fitted the head and initial band rigging. Took him about two hours and he KNEW what he was doing.

 

[CCspearo]

Looking good Nicko I have just finished my 1m roller gun conversion and the power is scary. I have been shooting phone books in the back yard as a method of gauging the power incr

 

[CCspearo]

oops touched the touchpad and had a premature post anyhow I have been shooting phone books in the back yard as a method of gauging the power increase. I needed 3 phone books at 2m 350% stretch with a 8mm shaft with flopper attached it damages 2674 pages (where I can still feel a lump on the page). The standard seahornet 1m marks 1080 pages at the same distance. not bad considering according to mythbusters a 9mm glock pistol won't penetrate 1 phone book. This beast goes through 2 phone books and part way through a third. I was going to take it out in lake macquarie for some test shots. I turned on the news to night to see a 3m great white leaping clean out of the water. There has been about 5 shark attacks in NSW in the last 3 months. Maybe Tuggerah lake a bit less sharky but terrible vis. see the pic for my rollerguns. My guns have western red cedar buts so if I put them down to pick abalone or crays the gun stands up so it is easy to find it doesn't seem to affect the balance. I tether my fish float to the gun when chasing the big fellas all guns are open muzzle with 8mm shafts with 7mm deep tracks to prevent shaft whip the larger guns have intermediate shark fins for easier loading(a lot of this stuff seems redundant after seeing your pulley system!). Hip load to the first fin and chest load to the second. High lift bridle catcher so that the gun can be fired on the first fin without the second fin hitting the bridle. 40mm acetal rollers on 8mm axles, shark prodder on the roller head the keep those pesky men in grey suits away when you have a fish on the spear. The barrels of the two smaller guns are meranti and the larger gun is Queensland Maple. The larger guns have a copy of the estuary cod camouflage on the side (it seems to work for that ambush predator). The larger guns have the plastic trigger mech cartridge replaced with a homemade 316 stainless one to allow for the extra power. I I have made all the parts myself in my garage I turne up the rollers on home made lathe made out of a cheap drill press. all the stainless on the guns has been blackened for stealth by burning in sump oil. spear line is 295kg breaking strain 2mm spectra, bridles 3mm 495kg breaking strain spectra on spectra loop inserts for easy replacement. no gun cost me more than fifty bucks. I bought 4 old guns at a garage sale for 20 bucks and converted them. I got a bit carried away with my description I hope I haven't bored you too much.

 

[CCspearo]

The beast has become stronger. I have added your block and tackle setup to my 100cm roller gun with 480mmx18mm rubbers. I am now able to max the rubbers out fully about a 12% increase(according to my phone book penetration tests.) I have gained a few advantages from the set up. 1. much easier to load. 2 infinite power adjustment. 3. I have been able to reduce the pre load so that the lowest setting loaded to the intermediate shark fin is the same power as a 100cm gun with 16mm rubbers, which is almost suitable for reef shooting.(I still prefer my 80cm rollergun with 16mm rubbers for reef work and my 60cm rollergun for cave work). 4.The extra power does not affect the accuracy, on land I can hit any part of the phone book I aim at. I had a split rubber gun with triple rubbers and the recoil was that bad I couldn't hit anything with it. this rollergun is more powerful and has virtually no recoil.
I looked up the cost of the karver KB01 pulley on the net, about $50 delivered and thought I can make one of those. I cut 20mm of 8mm spear shaft and drilled a 6.5mm hole through it, use some scrap acetal to turn up the rollers and some scrap stainless for the sides total cost = zero + plus quite a bit of time. I had some 3mm spectra which i use for the hauling rope but it was a bit hard on the ungloved hands so I ordered some 4mm black spectra off the net $7 delivered, much kinder to bare hands.

This is my first attempt with 3mm spectra. I made a low profile jamb cleat out of stainless, I think it is easier to engage as you can just drag the line across the gun rather than pushing it down into a slot.
Below is the final version,I made a few improvements I restrung the block so that the hauling line comes out of the top, so that the lines are less crossed up when the gun is maxed out and removed main line guides on the karver type roller. I can't wait to try it out in blue water maybe I can string a big Kingfish like Nicko did or even a big mulloway. thanks for a great idea Nicko.

 

[Smesh]

Hey Nicko. I know this is an old thread, but I'm curious how your gun has been working out. Any issues with tangling of the hauling line, and any improvements since you started this? I have a pathos 100 with powerhead roller, and am considering this mod just to get more power and move to a heavier shaft without the crazy band loading required. I might also do this on a smaller pathos for my wife to use. Any updates would be appreciated.

 

[Nicko]

Hey Smesh
I must start off by complimenting CC on his beasts! I didn't see your last post, they're looking great mate
Yeah Smesh, the gun was great!
Getting the rubbers back to the reel and maximising the stretch works well.
I never had any tangle problems but the recovery of my shoulder bursitis and a Devoto shaft with mid load tab has done away with the need for the pulley set up.
I now have the rubbers nearly at max, hip load the gun to the first tab, then chest load to the back tab.
I've even built another gun(115) for Bluewater breakaway Makerel.
I'll put some photos up when I get home.

 

[Nicko]

Hey Smesh

As I was saying yesterday, here are some pics of my guns.
I've done away with the pulleys as I'm using shafts with a mid tab that allow you to load easily, without any extra gear.
The breakaway rig is a 115 Beuchat Marlin Carbone with MVD pro roller muzzle, MannySub 16mm bands and is fitted with a Devoto 150cm 7.5mm shaft with 3 load tabs. Its a great shaft, with very well crafted tabs. Loading length is 2300mm, bands @ 575mm and with the preload in pics and vid are at 380%. The complete rig with shooting line weighs 1200g (2.65lb)
I switched to the MVD head as it is lighter, lower profile (tracks better) and I really like how snug a 7.5mm shaft sits in its groove.
The reel gun is a 95 Beuchat Marlin Carbone with MVD Pro G2 head, MannySub 16mm bands and an Adreno (cheap) 7.5mm shaft that I had ablob of stainless filler welded to it that I will fashion into an intermediate loading tab. Ill probably buy a 7mm Devoto shaft for this one too. Bands are 480mm, stretch @ 375%.
Prior to the mid load tab shafts, I was using a rubber load assist, which is basically a very short band with a dyneema wishbone and a crudely made gal wire hook. From the hip load position, you hook onto the loading loop of the main bands with the load assist and pull the dyneema wishbone onto the back loading tab. You can now load the main bands from the chest and the assist will float away...literally, which is why I went with the new shafts, as when you loose the load assist, there ain't no way you're gonna be able to
load these guns!

watch me load the 115 here

 

[Smesh]

Hey Nicko. My gun is a pathos 100 with Mannysub Roller Powerhead. It still wears the pathos shaft with two sharkfins WAY back and a rest tab (if you want to call it that) about 10" ahead of the trigger, so no where near mid shaft. We can't buy devoto shafts here in the US. I wish. We have to have shafts custom made if we want mid tabs and they are $$$. Also, we can't buy Manny Sub or Devoto products here in the US, other than the muzzles from one particular distributor in California. If we want anything else, including full-on guns or shafts, we have to order from Mannysub directly and pay OZ prices at USD par. So a gun that sells for $600 AUS at Adreno is 30% higher plus shipping to get it here, since he sells them on his site for $600 USD. No OZ dealer will ship here because of agreements with the MFG. I might have to ask one of Aussie friends to ship me some spearfishing gear to me here in LA.

Interesting to hear your thoughts on the MVD Roller heads, as everyone here seems to trash them. I think the distributor and the owner of MVD might have had a falling out though, so perhaps it's just marketing. I'm going to look into that roller as an option for my second gun to try it. I haven't even had my gun in the water yet because viz has been pea soup, but will shortly. I think my bands are cut a little longer than yours, so might be a challenge without the mid shaft rest tab. My bands are 56cm between the constrictor knots, but they are the 16mm 1/16" inside diameter bands so are more like 17.5-18mm 1/8" ID bands. Don't you find the floatline on the left like that gets in the way while diving? Or are you left handed?

 

[Nicko]

The MVD heads are pretty new and I've had no problems as yet. The Pro G2 is definitely an improvement on the pro in terms of sturdiness and the inox muzzle rails being a lot lower. I've not heard anything negative about them and I wouldn't say they are in anyway superior to the MannySub either. Time will tell though.
The floatline is ok as its a breakaway set up and is in my left hand most of the time anyway.
Did you see the load assist pics?

 

[Smesh]

I went straight to the video and missed the thumbnails, but meant to ask you about the load assists. That's some heavy duty line you have there. What is it? I have yet to fire my roller. Hoping to get out tomorrow if viz clears up, but I wonder does that loop of line obscure your sight picture at all? That looks like it would be MUCH easier on the hands. I'm sure it creates a lot of drag, but that would be so much easier to pull back on than the thin 1.4mm stuff I'm using.

 

[Nicko]

yeah it's heaps thicker eh! It's 5mm spectra core. It's a lot easier on the hands yes. It folds down when loaded so not to obscure view. If truth be told I used it as I had no 3mm dyneema left!

 

[Gregaz]

Hey, sweet guns you got there. I was thinking of doing a similar setup except I was gonna use 18mm bands, instead of 16mm. My measurements are basically the same (couple more inches on the barrel), and I was wondering if I used the same length bands except 18mm would it still shoot fine?
I'm young and full of strength and energy, so loading isn't an issue. I just want to know if I'll be overpowering the gun and creating an inaccurate shot.

My band stretch on the top is 46 inches (from roller muzzle to last fin)
And the stretch on the bottom is the same I guess? Because I'll be attaching it to my reel mount as well, which is right under my last fin.
So, 92 inch total. How do I calculate how much 18mm rubber I need for a very powerful, but accurate shot?
160cm, 7.5mm Mako shaft

Thanks for the help

Hey Smesh

As I was saying yesterday, here are some pics of my guns.
I've done away with the pulleys as I'm using shafts with a mid tab that allow you to load easily, without any extra gear.
The breakaway rig is a 115 Beuchat Marlin Carbone with MVD pro roller muzzle, MannySub 16mm bands and is fitted with a Devoto 150cm 7.5mm shaft with 3 load tabs. Its a great shaft, with very well crafted tabs. Loading length is 2300mm, bands @ 575mm and with the preload in pics and vid are at 380%. The complete rig with shooting line weighs 1200g (2.65lb)
I switched to the MVD head as it is lighter, lower profile (tracks better) and I really like how snug a 7.5mm shaft sits in its groove.
The reel gun is a 95 Beuchat Marlin Carbone with MVD Pro G2 head, MannySub 16mm bands and an Adreno (cheap) 7.5mm shaft that I had ablob of stainless filler welded to it that I will fashion into an intermediate loading tab. Ill probably buy a 7mm Devoto shaft for this one too. Bands are 480mm, stretch @ 375%.
Prior to the mid load tab shafts, I was using a rubber load assist, which is basically a very short band with a dyneema wishbone and a crudely made gal wire hook. From the hip load position, you hook onto the loading loop of the main bands with the load assist and pull the dyneema wishbone onto the back loading tab. You can now load the main bands from the chest and the assist will float away...literally, which is why I went with the new shafts, as when you loose the load assist, there ain't no way you're gonna be able to
load these guns!

watch me load the 115 here


View attachment 41788 View attachment 41788

 

[Rugbyfan]

18 mm rubbers will be way to strong for ur setup. Stick with 16... Less recoil so much more accurate


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[CCspearo]

I have converted two 100cm seahornet magnums to roller guns using 18mm x 480mm rubbers I am an old bloke but can still bench press over 100kg and I could load the gun but found it getting difficult after a few shots. I put nickos block and tackle setup on and it is easy as pie to load to the maximum setting and has no recoil. the gun has 7.5 meters of shooting line and needs every bit of it. It is magic for blue water spearing of the big fish and open water stalking of bream, trevally and other flighty fish because of the added range. I shot a 1kg bream last week with a pranger. the fish was 2 metres away and after the spear hit it the fish was pushed another 2 metres. I use a deep track speargun to prevent shaft whip and the range and accuracy is amazing. It is too long and powerful for around the reef, for reef spearing I prefer my 80cm rollergun with 16mm rubber.

 

[CCspearo]

gregaz
You should work on 3.7 to 1 max stretch (370%) if you want your rubbers to last. You can stretch them more but its not good for the rubber. measure the distance from anchor point to last fin and take off the length of bridle/ whishbone and divide by 3.7 ie 92 -4 /3.7= 23.78 inches near enough to 2ft each rubber.

 

[Gregaz]

CCspearo

Sounds good. I know everyone says to use 16mm, but I have a friend that has a 130cm Rob Allen with a roller setup. He uses 18mm rubbers and they are 24in. He says its sweet

I'll try the 24in on mine. I just wanna make sure it shoots properly. I have a regular groove track on my Mako speargun, and I'm gonna use a short shark fin 7.5mm shaft
Or is that a bad idea?

I was also wondering about the line setup. Is it better to have the tall shark fins that have the line attachment in the fin? Or can I use the shaft that has the line attachment in the back of the gun? I was thinking it might interfere with the shot when the wishbone is pulled tight against the roller muzzle, and the spear still has that little bit to go thru with the line still attached to the back. If that makes sense

Lemme know your thoughts