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Rundown of Sebastian's course

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Will

Will

Freediver
Jun 20, 2003
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Danilo Cialoni is the doctor in charge of heading Apnea Academy research into lung barotrauma, and I have talked to him extensively about the tests and surveys that they have been doing. At this stage he is hypothesizing that the cause is predominantly 'sudden exertion at depth,' such as during the turn at the bottom or a struggle with a holed up snapper. The idea is that huge pulmonary blood pressure, combined with a sudden tachycardia due to transfer from a sedentary (freefall) to an active (swimming ascent) state, causes leaking of blood across the capillary/alveolar membrane. Packing isn't suspected, as most Italians don't pack (or aren't allowed to pack by Pelo!), yet incidence is still reasonably high.
 
sebastien murat

sebastien murat

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2004
424
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Pete,

The apnea conference...?
No disrespect intended but its my opinion that, for a variety of reasons, the Italians, and French for that matter, are a little behind the times in terms of their apnea diving research. Like others who've brought up this issue, much of the information that's been published is a re-hash of some old literature. I think they should really make the effort to get with the times.

The world UHMS (Undersea and Hyperbaric Medical Society) conference in Orlando, Florida (2006) will have a session (2 days long?) on breath-hold diving. I believe the session is being organized by Dr. Peter Lindholm & Prof. Claes Lundgren.

Will made an interesting point about bleeds. The pulmonary circulation is quite fragile, especially when under elevated exertional stresses, coupled with a considerable blood shifts. Conventioanal diving involves exercise +/then dive response, as opposed to dive response then exertcise response. What many divers fail to understand is that an exercise response that is conflict with a dive response will result in more elevated cardiac outputs which is not conducive to intelligent diving. The name of the game is minimal effort in the descent phase, allowing the dive response to promptly and strongly develop. One it is well established, any exercise that is initiated then will not result in excessive pulmonary pressures. The converse will maintain the circulation to working muscles open and thus result in tachcardia (reduced bradycardia) and more elevated cardiac outputs. There are other problems with excessive lung volumes also (see Fu et al. below). Of course excessive -ve intrathoracic pressures can result in bleeds, e.g., lung squeezes but through appropriate adaptations such as thickening of the pulmonary capillary membranes there is increased tolerance to pressure. One may have to, however, compromise enhanced gas-exchange during terrestrial exercise. A more elevated Hct can, howver, reduce this negative effect during diving so that O2 is easily absorbed even at low cardiac outputs .

For those interested the following article may shed some light on research in this area that was done some time ago.

Fu et al. High lung volume increases stress failure in pulmonary capillaries. J. Appl.Physiol. 1992; 73:123-135.

West et al. Stress failure of pulmonary capillaries as a mechanism for exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage. Equine Vet. J. 1994:; 26:441-7.

West et al. Stress failure in pulmonary capillaries in racehorses with exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrage. J. Appl. Phsiol. 1993; 75: 1097-1109.

West et al. Pulmonary Circulation. In Saltin, B. et al. (Ed.) (2000). Exercise and Circulation and Health and Disease. pp. 79-91

Sebastien
Aust.
 
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M

merio

New Member
Jan 26, 2005
38
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Hello seb!

I'm desperately trying to learn how to equalize heands-free :duh .
how do you teach it that easily?

thanks alot,
merio.
 
C

cdavis

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2003
4,062
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Orlando, 2006, its not posted on their website yet, but I'll be there. Thanks Seb.

Connor
 
Last edited:
laminar

laminar

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2001
1,129
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H Seb,

Point well taken about the Italy conference. I guess I was hoping against hope that something new and interesting would be presented there.

I have corresponded with Dr. Lundgren at length several years ago when I was having trouble with lung barotrauma and he was reluctant to speculate or impart his knowledge about the topic. He referred me to some published articles in the Lung At Depth (he was editor). A shame, because a great many freedivers are in need of information so that they can judge whether what they are doing is risky or not.

Thanks for the references, I've not seen those before.

Seb, which university in Vancouver will you be doing your research with?

Cheers,

Pete
 
sebastien murat

sebastien murat

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2004
424
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Merio,

Hands free equalizing! Too-hard basket to explain by email. I'd have to show you first-hand. You can also try Eric Fattah, who publsihed an informative and well written step-by-step guide on how to do it.


Roy,

Southern Cal.: probably San Diego and/or Santa Cruz


Pete,

I've been fortunate to have interest from several universities, but at the end of the day an adequately geared exercise lab is everything. At this stage, it's a toss up between UBC, Hawaii and Buffalo. As Micki, my partner, is involved in fisheries research I think UBC may be a pretty good choice. Nevertheless, it's still a long way away for me, espcially with junior on his way...this thursday! Perhaps he/she will also take up diving.


Seb
 
M

merio

New Member
Jan 26, 2005
38
5
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Thanks for the reference,

but I haven't found the guide any-where.
Can you (or anyone) pleas direct me to it?

Thanks again. Sorry i'm such a bother :eek: .
Merio.
 
A

Alun

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2001
763
83
118
Merio...

Eric's document doesn't explain how to do BTV (hands free equalisation) - at least not the version i have. what it does explain is how to do the Frenzel and advanced variations. you can download it from www.ericfattah.com

unfortunately not everyone can do BTV. some people can do it naturally without even trying. others can do it only after months of practice. others can't do it no matter how hard they try. it all depends on the size and shape of your eustachian tube. that's something that you can't change.

try a quick test...

protrude your jaw (like a yawn) until you feel that your eustachian tubes are open. if you hum you should hear a loud resonance in your ears. that sounds tells you if the tubes are open. keep practising this until you hear the hum - generally everyone can do this.

when you've accomplished that then try it again with your head upside down - just bend down as much as possible. if you're still able to open them and hear the humming sound then you can probably do BTV in water. if you can no longer do it then it probably means you won't be able to do BTV no matter how much you practice.
 
D

diver-marc

New Member
Nov 30, 2004
21
1
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Gday Seb, Marc Wheway here. I did your course in Southport on the Gold Coast in July 04. Now in Sunny London :duh

We'll I hit 15 meters without any pain in my ears thanks to your tips! Also hitting 2 minutes + bottom time and increasing. now that I'm in England I'm hoping to do the 30 meter tank in Portsmouth!!! Once again mate great clinic and you'll see on Adreniline website that Brett's still bating for ya there! let me know if your heading over here again!!!

Cheer's mate,
Marc.
 
sebastien murat

sebastien murat

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2004
424
83
68
Hi Marc,

Good to hear the ears are better.

My sister lives in England and so I will probably drop in. Perhaps we can meet up then. I'll keep you posted.

I also have the latest, very much upfdated, version of the course notes available for you, if you wish.

Send me an email at [email protected] with your postal address and I'll send you a copy in the next few weeks after I'm settled with our firstborn.

Cheers,
Seb
 
M

merio

New Member
Jan 26, 2005
38
5
0
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Thank you Alun.
I can do Frenzel easily...
I'll practice your exercise.

Greetings,
Merio.
 
D

diver-marc

New Member
Nov 30, 2004
21
1
0
52
Thanks Seb, sent new email address! Once again thanks for changing my diving to NO LIMITS! I have yet to find some deeper water to really try out my ability but at least now I can dive without rupturing my ears these days!

Brett is diving really well - 30 meters!!! and no prob's.

If you ever hit Sunny England give me a hoy! I'm planning trips to Norway and Malta this Summer for some diving, maybe you'll get one in too!

I'll stay in touch mate,

Cheer's,

Marc.
 
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