Salvimar Hero/Metal trigger experience

[popgun pete]

Have a look on eBay. Various sizes are available, or look at hardware suppliers.

10pcs teflon washers for 3.17mm/4mm/5mm/6.35mm Drive Shaft | eBay

10 pcs of teflon washers are included. quantity : 10pcs. We will try our best to solve the issue.

www.ebay.com.au

 

[Sorcerer]

Sear pin ...

Thinkin about the idea of changing the pin diameter to be a tighter fit I came to conclusion that it cant be solution to the trigger issue.

Unless the pin would be eliptical, by increasing the pin size diam we are actually moving the entire sear and its roller CLOSER into the trigger by difference in diameter! The wall of the sear that is closer to the trigger will be pusher further into it resulting in the end in the roller being positioned higher aswell on the trigger lever. The clearance thus will be lower for the roller to slide down when trigger is pushed. Yes it might counter the sear play but at the same time it create a difference in distance between sear and trigger...

I hope I was clear enough and my picture is understandable, paint at work at its finest... Im not engineer nor great at math

 

[popgun pete]

You should just replace the mechanism with a new one from Salvimar. Making changes and experimenting could result in the weapon misfiring and skewering someone. Then when asked if you had modified the weapon you could find yourself in trouble as authorities take a dim view of amateurs compromising the safety of weapons, especially when they don’t really know what they are doing. There are people who would like to get rid of spearfishing and any accident will be seized upon, so don’t give them any ammo. Having with others warded off the efforts of some to throttle the sport I know what I am talking about.

 

[Andrew the fish]

actually, speaking of Salvimar Metal trigger, I haven't used any other guns for months, almost a year. Day before yeterday it was time for maintenance on Salvimar, so I took another gun, it was Pathos Sniper, nothing special, it was just handy within arm reach. And then, in the water, I released the shaft unexpectedly, was literally taken by surprise how light the normal trigger feels. I still got the fish I shot at, and kept on taking more fish.

I am thinking, maybe I was giving too much credit to Salvimar guys, trigger really is heavy, when compared to other good guns.

 

[Sorcerer]

Anyone able to check whether ermess sub fits?
Mario is super slow to reply, but my guess there is noone compatible

 

[Nejc]

Anyone able to check whether ermess sub fits?
Mario is super slow to reply, but my guess there is noone compatible

No, the Ermes won't fit. The drawing you did above is not correct, because the sear rotates through the center of the pin, which means, that if you increase the pin and sear hole at the same time, you did not change the pivot at all. But if you feel like doing that, I strongly suggest that you find someone that has a lathe and stainless steel suitable for making axles. They can make you a new pin that will fit like a glove and will solve the problems that you currently have with the gun 100%. I increased the hole size because I used what I had at home as a proof of concept. Then I had my neighbor machine me a new axle from Inox/stainless steel.
Now that I went spearfishing a few times, I can only say that lubricating all of the rollers and replacing the sear pin/shaft with one that fits better solved all of my issues regarding the trigger. After intentionally taking more shots and even doing some target practice I can say that in 100+ shots it works really well. The trigger pull weight is about 1-1.3kg, which is along the line of what I would expect on a weapon. Having a trigger pull lighter than that would be too light for my taste. Would not want a trigger like I have on a competition air rifle which is only about 600g.

Again, you don't need to increase the size of the pin, just need someone who can make it to the size that you need it. But a skilled machinist will know what to do (milling to size and then using polishing paste to achieve the best possible fit in the end with minimal play), and if you find one locally will probably do it for cheap and it will fit like it should from the factory.

 

[Nejc]

But if you feel like doing that

If you don't feel like doing that*
(don't see a way to edit my previous reply)

 

[popgun pete]

Jack Prodanovich, one of the great contributors to the sport of spearfishing and heavy equipment design for shooting big fish rather than tiddlers soon recognised the importance of curve matching in his trigger designs. He had been making guns when the sport was just beginning and his mechanisms were built using grinding tools and jigs to get around meshing problems. That meant his two piece trigger did not drive the mechanism backwards because when cutting the trigger profile the trigger piece revolved on what was the trigger pivot, the holes being cut first and all the shapes generated with respect to the holes. He knew that even the best designed forms were no good if the holes were drilled slightly out of position or they did not match the pin spacing in the housing in terms of lever separation in the housing.

One gun that was notorious for pushing the trigger mechanism backwards was the Sampson gun, a gun for big hitters that was based on an up-scaled and redesigned French Arbalete on steroids. The French gun also pushed the spear back slightly against the band pull, but mitigated it with a curved sear tooth profile engaging a matched spear tail notch whereas the Sampson had a V shaped tooth and spear tail notch. The curved notch “euro tail” is still with us today.

For sure the Sampson as a eurogun on steroids is based on the Hurricane "Corsair" as the Hurricane dates from at least 1949 when it was displayed on the rollergun patent using a cocking lever. That would mean the "Corsair" is actually even earlier than 1949. The Sampson appears in the later sixties.

The pistol grip gun appears because few liked the angled grip Hurricane without its shoulder stock.

 

[popgun pete]

The Hurricane trigger is a single piece trigger, whereas the Sampson gun has a variation on a pull down sear lever, which is used in all the Champion Arbaletes, but there its pivot pins are all on the same horizontal alignment. Note the forward projecting arm on the trigger blocks the line release lever from moving, until you pull the trigger. Swivelling U shaped rod swings in behind the trigger as the safety cam and is operated by an external lever on the LHS of the grip handle. Note that this example has never been used, not a speck of marine corrosion anywhere.

 

[Russnlp]

Hey guys,

I need some more insight on your Salvimar hero/metal triggers and experience using them under loads.

Ive gotten the gun quite recently and its been a love hate relationship so far to the point I simply don't trust the trigger.

First thing first:
- the locking/safety mechanism was very hard to lock/unlock OUT of the box. Impossible to do with 1 finger. Currently I need to use shaft butt to press it.
Yes - I DONT use lock/safety ever as precaution but I find it unreasonable.
An unlocked safety was also blocking the trigger from the box, weird?

- the standard bands are 16mm 325%, for a wahoo its a bit underpowered so I replaced them with cressi small ID 14mm at 350-360% and here starts the hate relationship - the trigger become quite hard to the point that I literally dont know when it will go off and on top of that it influences the precision as you start pushing the trigger really hard...

- line release mechanism movement is hard to explain, smooth but needs pressure applied, is your experience the same?

Salvimar advertise the mech to loads up to 350kg and very smooth experience, yet I feel like im shooting my omer cayman GI completly overpowered by double 14mm.
At 350kg should easily sustain 3 bands setup...

I hope you guys can share some experiences, is it a faulty mech or thats how it is.

I've had the same problem with a Salvimar Pulse 95. It semed ok for the first few shots with one rubber. Now I'm using 2 rubber bands, 16mm and 14mm and the trigger jams so tight that I almost need 2 hands to fire it.
I was thinking of upgrading to the all metal mechanism and would like to know:
1/ Will the metal mech fit my Salvimar Pulse?
2/ Is the metal mech any better or will it jam too?
3/ Is there a different handle with a more reliable mechanism that will fit my gun?
Thanks guys.

 

[popgun pete]

I've had the same problem with a Salvimar Pulse 95. It semed ok for the first few shots with one rubber. Now I'm using 2 rubber bands, 16mm and 14mm and the trigger jams so tight that I almost need 2 hands to fire it.
I was thinking of upgrading to the all metal mechanism and would like to know:
1/ Will the metal mech fit my Salvimar Pulse?
2/ Is the metal mech any better or will it jam too?
3/ Is there a different handle with a more reliable mechanism that will fit my gun?
Thanks guys.

Better to pull it apart and see what is going on inside. It should not be jamming up.

 

[Russnlp]

Better to pull it apart and see what is going on inside. It should not be jamming up.

I pulled it apart before my last dive. There was no sign of wear on any part of the mechanism. I did find a small amount of sand which I hoped was the cause, but alas it jammed just a badly. At one point I squeezed the trigger half way and it jammed even harder. On that dive I missed 6 shots that would usually have been almost guaranteed hits. The only fish I landed was a big drummer shot from 1 meter away. I could have got that with a handspear!
I've lost trust in Salvimar, unless I find another solution, I'll be buying a Wettie or Rob Allen handle to replace the Salvimar.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a handle that will fit and be reliable?

 

[popgun pete]

I pulled it apart before my last dive. There was no sign of wear on any part of the mechanism. I did find a small amount of sand which I hoped was the cause, but alas it jammed just a badly. At one point I squeezed the trigger half way and it jammed even harder. On that dive I missed 6 shots that would usually have been almost guaranteed hits. The only fish I landed was a big drummer shot from 1 meter away. I could have got that with a handspear!
I've lost trust in Salvimar, unless I find another solution, I'll be buying a Wettie or Rob Allen handle to replace the Salvimar.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a handle that will fit and be reliable?

You should be able to check it on land. With no band load and the gun held vertical and pointing downwards pulling the trigger should cause the spear to fall out of the gun. The only gun where this will not necessarily happen is momentary action triggers where spear pull force is needed to yank the spear out unless the spear is heavy enough to drop the sear tooth which is sprung loaded. Guns such as the Carbon C4 are like that, when you push the spear tail into the sear box mouth the tooth inside is pushed down and then pops up once the spear tail notch rides over the top of it.

Is it this one? I think that it has given trouble in the past.

 

[Russnlp]

I have had the issue of the line tension affecting the he trigger wit my old Undersea and Seahornet spearguns before. I loosened my shooting line, but so far that hasn't helped. I'll disassemble the trigger mech again and maybe try loosening the line even more, but im not very hopeful.

trigger is heavy, but workable. Heavy trigger isn’t a rough sear issue. I have polished a few sears, on 1911‘s, lee enfoelds etc, you name it. On Salvimar, heavy trigger is design issue. The way it is coupled with line release I think. Try this - wind up the line hard, so there is a bit of pressure on line release arm. Trigger gets lighter. I haven’t tried, but I think you might even accidentally release the shaft, by pressing on line release arm.

Your

 

[Russnlp]

You should just replace the mechanism with a new one from Salvimar. Making changes and experimenting could result in the weapon misfiring and skewering someone. Then when asked if you had modified the weapon you could find yourself in trouble as authorities take a dim view of amateurs compromising the safety of weapons, especially when they don’t really know what they are doing. There are people who would like to get rid of spearfishing and any accident will be seized upon, so don’t give them any ammo. Having with others warded off the efforts of some to throttle the sport I know what I am talking about.

You have no need for concern. I am a qualified technician and have been successfully building, servicing, repairing and improving diving, spearfishing and scuba equipment for over 40 years. I'm not going to stop now.
In my experience replacing a mechanism that has failed after 2 dives, with exactly the same kind of mechanism is insanity.
When I get back from holiday I will repar, modify or replace it with a totally different mechanism.
Spearguns are safe if the rubbers are not pulled back. Otherwise they should only be pointed at something that you are about to shoot.
Sure I did risky, dumb stuff with spearguns when I was 12, but not in the last 45 years.

 

[popgun pete]

Well that comment of mine that you are quoting was written over a year ago and was not aimed at you. You never confined which trigger mechanism it was. The Salvimar with a plastic trigger would be problematic as plastic triggers have only really worked in guns like the Rob Allen where the trigger is being compressed when latched.

 

[Russnlp]

Thank you for the clarification Pete. I may have gone off like a poorly modified trigger mech.
Yes this mech has a plastic trigger so unless there is an obvious easy fix I'll probably replace the whole handle and mech with something that is more robust. I'm thinking Rob Allen or a Wettie but I'll check both mechanisms and barrel diameters first.
Any suggestions for a better handle that will fit?

 

[popgun pete]

May be worth reading this http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=167880, however it was written back in 2013. Salvimar's online catalogue shows they have all metal mechanisms now, but don't say which handles they fit. Some of those have had problems due to tolerances, if the pivot pin spacing is off then levers don't always function properly and they are too busy churning them out to notice.

 

[Russnlp]

Thanks Pete, I took the mech apart and there was some burring on the plastic. The metal was also a bit rough from manufacture. After polishing it all up with 1200 wet & dry, re assembling and observing the operation, I realised that this mech design would never be good under load. So after binning the Salvimar handle I have replaced it with a Pathos handle & mech that I bought some time ago. If that fails I'll be open to suggestions on another more reliable mechanism.