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Sambaaaa !

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 90 days.
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Ok trux maybe I couldn't get the idea to you, I understood that it depends on the level and extremety of the hyperventilating, I understood that when it's extreme then a black out should occour almost instantly because no fresh O2 will be delivered to the brain other than what it already has, just before apnea. Is this understanding correct ?

Then I already descriped my condition last year, even before I start the apnea I felt extreme tingling in my face my hands and my feet and after I went into the apnea I still felt it very strongly for more than a minute before it started to lower in intensity over the second minute, now how extreme in you ropinion is this hyperventilating? .. and to know how did I reach to that state it would be good to know that I kept on breathing all air in then all air out (lower abdomin together with chest and back) for the whole 5 minutes of ventilation, very very intensive deep breathing but not fast (5 seconds inhale 10 seconds exhale with no pose) .. now if you could go through my last post and see if you have a resonable explaination of how could I (under such state) do a 5' 26" apnea without BO ? ofcourse it was dry static, so if it is imposibble in theory then the only posibbility I would suggest is that I actually blacked out for some time and got back to conciousness and just had a memory loss! but then would I be still holding my breath when I come back to conciousness and actually have all normal feelings of apnea including the start of urge to breath again which made me look at the watch to see surprizingly and for the first time in my life that I reached 5' 26" and that's when I resumed breathing although the contractions was only at its begining (yet mild).. what do you suggest ?.. :) .. and thanks for giving me of your time and effort trux.
 
Ok trux maybe I couldn't get the idea to you, I understood that it depends on the level and extremety of the hyperventilating, I understood that when it's extreme then a black out should occour almost instantly because no fresh O2 will be delivered to the brain other than what it already has, just before apnea. Is this understanding correct ?
Yes, adolphin, defintely, it can indeed happen.

Then I already descriped my condition last year, even before I start the apnea I felt extreme tingling in my face my hands and my feet and after I went into the apnea I still felt it very strongly for more than a minute before it started to lower in intensity over the second minute, now how extreme in you ropinion is this hyperventilating? ..
On my mind it was already rather extreme hyperventilation.

and to know how did I reach to that state it would be good to know that I kept on breathing all air in then all air out (lower abdomin together with chest and back) for the whole 5 minutes of ventilation, very very intensive deep breathing but not fast (5 seconds inhale 10 seconds exhale with no pose) .. now if you could go through my last post and see if you have a resonable explaination of how could I (under such state) do a 5' 26" apnea without BO ?
With hyperventilation you can indeed achieve impressive times, because you can go further with less effort, but you cannot really tell how close to BO you are. You were likely lucky to still stop before you got to that point, but the next time you try you may have less luck. The CO2 still grows at the end of a hyperventilated apnea too, but the curve is different and the security margin too narow and too irreliable (because it may differ in every case). And if you did the same before a real dive, you'd be probably BO'd.
 
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You may want to check for example these links. There is much more (and better) info on the web, but this is a good start:

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shallow_water_blackout"]Shallow water blackout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperventilation"]Hyperventilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Speaking from experience, adolphin, it definately sounds like your day was a bit FULL before you even got to the pool!

Oh yes Todd, I totally agree with you that my program that day wasn't good for static and surely not for dynamic (besides a trial to do a new dynamic national record !! .. :D )
Now after my very first experience with real training I am surely not going to do the same again, on the other hand I kept the 4 hour rule for food .. at least I didn't break that one, otherwise I could have blacked out as soon as I jumped into the pool .. rofl

My dynamic distance has bumped up into the 65m range (from 50m), and this Tues, I'll be going for 75m. I KNOW I can do it, I just have to relax and focus on my kicking!

Man! great work, keep up the spirit, and keep around the safety buddy .. and safe margins too, you don't have to ask a Doctor BUT ask a SAMBA PLAYER .. :wave
All the best .. and dive safe
 
You may want to check for example these links. There is much more (and better) info on the web, but this is a good start:

Shallow water blackout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hyperventilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok trux .. I've read the hyperventilation link already before, I'll read the shallow water black out one .. thanks .. :)
you are keeping me busy now aren't you?! otherwise I would keep on writing toooo long paragraphs ha? .. quite smart .. rofl .. JK .. :)
 
trux,
Hi there .. :)
Interesting for me to know that BO when ascending from deeper than 10 m is not SWB but rather DWB .. although the BO happens in the 10-5 m depth .. while shallow water black out actually needs to take place completely in water shallower than 10 m .. and the mechanism is different too ! .. interesting.

I am still reading in the references .. and shall practice more to experiment ( on no no not practice hyperventilating .. rofl .. but practice not to hyperventilate and what times can I make .. :) )
 
Interesting for me to know that BO when ascending from deeper than 10 m is not SWB but rather DWB .. although the BO happens in the 10-5 m depth .. while shallow water black out actually needs to take place completely in water shallower than 10 m .. and the mechanism is different too ! .. interesting.
Yes, that's according to the definition in WikiPedia, but if you ask any diver, freediver or spearo, they will tell you that SWB is exactly what in WikiPedia is called DWB. Historically taken, both terminologies are wrong, because the term Shallow Water Blackout / SWB was first used by doctors studying blackouts of rebreather divers in early diving era, which were in no relation to freediving hypoxic BO. So when speaking about SWB, and from the context is not clear what type is meant, it is always better to specify if you speak about simple hypoxic blackout, or a hypoxia amplified with the depressurizing effect during ascent. However, here on DB, when people speak about SWB, they always mean the one called DWB in WikiPedia (hypoxia on ascent due to the pressure gradient).
 
:head .. You know trux .. this kind of undifinit terms cause alot of problems and prevent us from evolving ! .. just imagine your self talking about apples while I talk about oranges and we both THINK that we are discussing the same thing, that takes alot of energy and lots of emotions sometimes,for no logical purpose !! .. if we were lucky enough, one of us after say couple of years will say to the other one: " Aaaaaaah! so that's what you were talking about ? .. no no, I was talking about that thing actually!" .. and hopefuly the new discovery is acurate, not a new loop !! .. :duh
 
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That's right. I already brought once the WikiPedia definition to a discussion here in DB, but it was met with unanimous resistance, and I do not think you will bring freedivers to using the SWB and DWB terms in the way defined in WiKi. That's why I mentioned it is better trying to avoid the term altogether and rather just specify whether you mean plain hypoxic BO, or a BO due to the depressurizing during ascent.
 
Adel
did you read Umberto Pellizari's book? it's quite a comprehensive read :)


I'm working my way through it now....wow. It's like a college text book! VERY thorough! Between it, my PFI Advanced manual (which currently has priority), and Carlos' book, I have a LOT of reading to do...it's almost like BEING in college! Hmmm, The College of Freediving....:inlove

Todd
 
Adel
did you read Umberto Pellizari's book? it's quite a comprehensive read :)

I didn't read any of the freediving books sands, I'll have to read Umberto's book, by the way, would there be freediving physics and chemistry study during the theories of the diving courses? at least the 3 or 4 star?
I had a long discussion last night with my brother in law (cardiologist- Phd and researcher in Canada- Vancover) I don't know how to spell the french names .. :o .. it was very informative talk, very interesting in some aspects, but it reached 2 am morning and we didn't reach to the Sambas .. :( .. today he left
 
I'm working my way through it now....wow. It's like a college text book! VERY thorough! Between it, my PFI Advanced manual (which currently has priority), and Carlos' book, I have a LOT of reading to do...it's almost like BEING in college! Hmmm, The College of Freediving....:inlove

Todd

My God Todd .. I love such an atomosphere .. :inlove
 
My God Todd .. I love such an atomosphere .. :inlove

Oh, me, too...except the Tolerance Table class! An hour, doing one LONG tolerance table? That would NOT be my favorite class of the day! "Todd will not be able to attend Tolerance Table class today; he has a tummyache from enduring too many contractions." rofl

Todd
 
yeah Todd, but you know .. this is the salt and pepper of the experience .. plus, as the dust of the running lambs slaps the face of the wolf and chill him up (dust on the face means a good meal is so close) .. so does those hard CO2 contractions to the freedivers .. :)
 
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