saudi woman beheaded for witchcraft

[jtkwest]

fox news is a joke. everyone knows that. quote me some grossly inadequate articles from time magazine and you will have made a point.
but quoting fox news is a joke.
everyone knows their agenda and the idiots they have presenting it.
no one takes them seriously, except super extreme right wing types and they believe ONLY in fox news to the exclusion of all the others.
basically it breaks down like this: you pick a team to believe- team 1 is all the major news organizations collectively.
team 2 is for all the people who find it inconvenient to believe what everyone else thinks , so they formed their own news channel dedicated to right wing ideology=FOX NEWS was formed.

so dont use fox news as an example of american journalism.
its more like a privately funded (british owned i believe) propaganda machine with "special news"
its similar to using the National Enquirer as an example of news.- according to them, a midwest houswife just gave birth to a two headed alien baby.
say what you like , but time magazine did a cover article this past year about the abuses that arab women receive under their current system, the uneducation, lack of voting,they cant own anything, inability to travel unescorted, the husbands take their passports and papers so the women are essentially held prisoner.regular beatings and humiliation is rampant in those ancient societies. the women are forced to marry at a young age , treated like possesions. it was a many pagearticle and it sounded like the truth to me, since they had pictures and interviews etc. women being stoned to death for adultery, simply because the husbands tire of the wives and accuse them in order to be rid of them. and while the law technically applies to men also(adultery stonings) it is never applied to men and is regularly applied to women with no proof other than the accusing husbands words.
just horrible stories from desperate people.
then along comes some guy claiming to have traveled there and seen that everything is great there and the women dont mind the ninja suits in the hot sun. and before last year - they didnt WANT to vote anyway
just like they dont mind the law forcing them to cover themselves in the oppressive heat of the desert.
i dont know about you, but a black ninja suit does not look like something i want to be wearing around in the desert
you?

 

[Kars]

I think all western media, even the alternative, are having agenda's.
Just see their major advertisers and know who's interest they obey.

We're played, we're managed, just like a flock of sheep from this pasture to the next, by hook and cane. It's a science, an old one, practised by all leaders. We're the increasingly redundant stock on their tax farms.

You know where your bread is buttered, so there is where you blind spot is. Only after you've gained you independence your vision may start to overcome your lifelong programming.

History is replete with murder, cruelty, oppression, theft, extortion, conspiracy, backstabbing, revenge, abuse, starvation, etc.

Sure I don't like it, actually I hate it.

Could people be social and productive without a hook and whip?


- just a ballad from a frustrated poor dry goat.

 

[sjurba]

I do not think anybody here is claiming that life is peachy for all women in the middle east,but there is a big diffrence between a hijab (headscarf) and a burka(ninjasuit).As far as Im aware the Saudis are not big on the burka,thats more afganistan and some african countrys.
Personally I find that any country wich has execution as part of their juridical system is stuck in the middleages,wether its for witchcraft or beeing a guntooting crackhead...

 

[Kars]

Hi Sjurba, I have to disagree with your dress code comment, because both demonstrate force. One can argue one appears more extreme, but in essence it's the same idea merely extended to different lengths.

I agree with your assertions in regard to capital punishment.

The veneer of civilisation is said to be a hair thin.
It's easy to see when people get into positions where they think they can get away with behaving irresponsible, brutal and evil. If power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Let me ask you people here, what do you think you will you do when your peers and surrounding fall into a state of nihilistic 'Mad Max' gang war scenario? When the biggest gang claims, demands tax you cannot pay?

 

[Azrael3000]

Someone asked for selective coverage of the TIME magazine? Yes, the interior might be the same. But it still makes you wonder.
Being European myself I have grown up with western media. But only in the direct conversation with people from a certain country you can actually get a picture, that is what I learned during the recent years. Since then I'm very careful with the information that I obtain through the media.

 

[spaghetti]

Hell yeah, cut somebody's head because of what's in it. Who's next? :martial

 

[jtkwest]

here is a nice article about the muslim fanatics in afghanistan.
are these women happy?TIME Magazine -- Europe Edition -- August 9, 2010 | Vol. 176, No. 6

now i'm sure you will say you have been to afghanistan and this is all nonsense too right?
we tried to help these people, but as soon as we leave the crazy people come back with the torturing and the public murders.
these muslim extremists just need a bullet.
but all the beatings and stonings and beheadings are ok because its what "they " WANT right?
but who is "they " exactly? the people getting beaten and tortured?
i think its safe to say that THOSE people are against these laws
so who ARE they for?
we should take over the whole region , give them democracy, take their oil.
if they WANT to wear black robes in 100 degree desert they are welcome to
there just wont be a law one way or the other.
my guess is, the black robes will be gone almost immediately- they may be behind the times by a few hundred
years, but they cant enjoy the constant sweating.
can you imagine what one of those women smell like under those robes?

 

[DivingDane]

wow, interesting thread, yeah American saying we should "TAKE OVER THE REGION" and "give" them democracy.
ic
seriously wow, thats no different to Islam extremists saying Convert the infidel or be killed, we "WILL" show you the right path in life.

i'ce spent some time in the middle east, not much but a bit and lived in Jeda a a child.

i can tell you that what we see in the media is not the whole truth, yes their laws are different to ours and in some cases appear to be extreme ( and some are) but if i had a choice between New york city or Jeda, I'd be in the middle east in a heart beat. thankfully i don't have to make that choice because I'm in Australia.

the news is so accurate from some of these "reputable magazines" that last year the entire state of Queensland was underwater and the great Barrier reef was destroyed according to them. all the while I'm living in Cairns which was where possibly the biggest cyclone in history hit, and we had no flooding and were back out diving the reef within 1 week. i still have my house, car, and furnishing with only a blown over fence.

so until you can spend some time actually in a location with the people try not to pass too much judgement. last year i spent time in Egypt and Jordan also both muslim countries and yes women cover up but in reality so do alot of men... not to quite the same extent.

those "Ninja suits" your talking about are surprisingly VERY effective at keeping the owners cool and protected from the sun and sand, similar clothing has been warn by desert people since well before Islam because it works, I'd love to see how a "modern person would cope in a pair of cargo pants and a shirt"

I'm comfortable enough to say that i don't agree with some of the laws but there is no way I'd say the legal system in the US or any ware else is more effective. how many people in the US lost EVERYTHING when the banks collapsed, yet the bankers still pulled record pay checks and bonuses, and they get away with it!

as for women smelling under ropes, mate come on nothing a bath doesn't fix. no different to spending a day diving in a wetsuit, lets face it we dont smell the greatest after 6 hours in the water, with fish and neoprene.

DD

 

[Kars]

jtkwest, I don't think we're questioning weather inhabitants of certain places are happy or not.
I merely want to point out that the things we're told here are 99% percent of the time lies too. Yes here in the Netherlands we're told 'we' are in Afghanistan because of 9/11 and to bring peace and democracy, you know the usual stuff. At the time of the decision it was came out that the US threatened 'us' with economic penalties if we did not take part in 'the coalition of the willing'. Only the shrinking coalition of the naive and willing fools here choose to believe only in the noblest excuses. Increasing numbers agree there is more to it. And also increasing numbers are growing weary and think it's ONLY because of big business, as exemplified by our former prime ministers brother who's involved with a very lucrative oil deal relating to Shell.
Of cause there are bigger strategic games played, such as mr Brzezinsky explains in his book "The Grand Chessboard" and "Between two ages". I think he likes to see himself as a chess player, moving the actors around, clearing a few of the chessboard when their use is over.

Just some encouraging footage
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvO3qAlyTg]Zbigniew Brzezinski Taliban Pakistan Afghanistan pep talk 1979 - YouTube[/ame]

Oh and I think Americans are fine people, maybe a bit rough, but also most generously giving and appreciating the individual. But I think you are and going to be suffering from your misleaders who've abused your kindness and tax money to wage war on the world. Bringing the social change desired by be people like Lord Bertrand Russell (The Next Million Years), on the way to the next phase towards their utopia. Not yours if you value a free mind and free will.

 

[bobdonny]

say what you like , but time magazine did a cover article this past year about the abuses that arab women receive under their current system, the uneducation, lack of voting,they cant own anything, inability to travel unescorted, the husbands take their passports and papers so the women are essentially held prisoner.regular beatings and humiliation is rampant in those ancient societies. the women are forced to marry at a young age , treated like possesions. it was a many pagearticle and it sounded like the truth to me, since they had pictures and interviews etc. women being stoned to death for adultery, simply because the husbands tire of the wives and accuse them in order to be rid of them. and while the law technically applies to men also(adultery stonings) it is never applied to men and is regularly applied to women with no proof other than the accusing husbands words.
just horrible stories from desperate people.

What a load of tripe... and here lies the problem....
Your problem is that your arguments are heresay... you are just inventing opinions pieces...maybe even there is a shred of fact in them.... but you are too extravagant with the story.
I went through all the time covers for the last 13months and there was no story... so do I determine that you are lying?
TIME Magazine -- U.S. Edition -- December 26, 2011 Vol. 178 No. 25

If you are gonna make outlandish statements you need to back them up with references (as I have) otherwise you risk sounding like a crackpot (not saying you are...just highlighting that you could be construed as one).

Manalive I was gonna post that, makes a joke of yankee media all right

Azrael, I think those photo's just about sum it up, nice one

here is a nice article about the muslim fanatics in afghanistan.
are these women happy?TIME Magazine -- Europe Edition -- August 9, 2010 | Vol. 176, No. 6

Haha... is your argument so weak that you need to quote another country and another political situation (one that the US have created...) in order to attempt to prove a point that you invented...
Seriously... this made me laugh....

""You"" are talking about the abuse in Saudi.... stick with that!!! (assuming you can of course)

Man.... black robes in the Desert.... seriously... are you just sitting in front of your PC making this sh*t up????
The Bedouin have been wearing black for thousands of years!!! your comments are beyond racist and ignorant are you really that stupid? Even the american special forces will wear black robes.... jez...
Why do Bedouins wear black robes in hot deserts?
why do people wear black in the desert??
Why do people wear black in the desert
Its exactly the same science (in reverse) as why polar bears, artic foxes etc. have white fur... or are they forced to wear white also due to an opressive government!

Anyway, your posts have been getting solidly worse and worse... I think you have a major chip on your shoulder and your posts have taken on an obvious racist or xenophobic undertone so I'm just giving you are fair warning... If you want to continue with this discussion... stick to facts and stop referring to a society in such a derogatory manner... For example, constantly referring to "them" as barbarians and saying that their women smell is what I would expect from someone in third grade... this forum has a very high standard... please don't reduce it to that rubbish.

Great posts by Kars and Divingdane aswell!!

 

[bobdonny]

Sorry manalive.... I realised you posted a different video... check this one out
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk-qRU2nAUQ"]Fox News lies about riots in Russia - YouTube[/ame]

PS... before you go on about fox...CNN is implicated in this also!

 

[foxfish]

PS this Fox is reading this thread with more & more concern - please keep everything calm & civil when posting any further comments - please!

 

[recurve]

This 2 hour video called human resources will show how we are all manipulated [ame=http://vimeo.com/17223990]Untitled on Vimeo[/ame] and will make us moe resistant to it.

 

[jtkwest]

you all need to relax a little. i like the debate , but all the insults?
i have been speaking all along about muslim extermist countries. Not simply saudi arabia. the reason we were speaking about the saudi's is because they were featured in an article about beheading a witch.
(after your compelling argument, i can see that this is totally acceptable)
lol

i live in key west, its pretty hot here. i have NEVER seen anyone wearing a black robe with a hood to keep cool here.
i guess we havent figured that one out yet. Personally i feel silly, since i always thought white reflected heat and black absorbed it, but i guess you learn something new everyday, thanks!

also, i was able to find the article with the girl with the missing nose, in about 20 seconds. on the cover of time magazine.
this was a husband who was sick of his wife, so he cut off her ears and nose.
and then went on about his business- with no fear of the authorities.
sharia law . more religeous extremists allowed to flourish.

you say the u.s. caused this situation? we tried to kick the barbarians out of there -and we did for a while. but unless we babysit them forever, they will just get victimized by the taliban again. so it becomes our fault? not to mention the brits have been right there with us the whole time.but they arent as fun to blame as the u.s.
its funny- everyone complains that we send our military around the world, always getting involved with other countries business. Alot of us americans are sick of paying the bill to bail all the rest of you out of your problems, and then we have to hear the constant criticism from everyone else.
it wasnt that long ago that we were helping the brits fight the nazis.
alot of americans were against that. People making similar arguments to all yours here (the u.s. butting in again)
that sounds good, until YOU are the one that needs our help.
its been a while since we had to bail you brits out, but the last time was a big one! The voices in our country that wanted us to stay out of ww2
(people like you) lost and we stepped in, and took charge of the war.
and we beat the germans .(with help of course) you're welcome! one of my great uncles was killed in france, liberating it from the germans ,(the germans didnt attack the u.s. and france is NOT one of the 50 states)
i wonder what the french think about us pesky americans always butting in? (with their short memories- who knows)
all of you would definately be speaking german right now,(maybe us too, but DEFINATELY you would ALL be.
Those are examples of the u.s. military "getting involved in other countries business again"
after ww1 alot of americans wanted to leave the europeans alone. Its safe to say that its a good thing we didnt. (wouldnt you?)

say what you want,but NO COUNTRY has EVER had to come to defend the u.s from anyone ever.(except the french at our countries inception) we just help everyone else. as soon as we get done helping a country out, a few years go by, then THEY are criticising us for "jumping in again"
you all have selective amnesia?

Also, they dont ask regular citizens or anything when they want to invade somewhere, they just do it. so , it may be convenient to blame the u.s. citizens when they do this, but the truth is- the majority of us want to leave the rest of these barbarians to themselves. if they want to behead each other and stone their women, thats their problem. we dont want to pay for helping everyone out anymore. especially, since all we hear is complaints from everyone that we are always meddling .
so, believe it or not,i'm with you. lets leave them and their ancient society alone. if we can get ourselves off this oil addiction- thats exactly what will happen.

oh, and stop quoting fox news . i told you that they are a joke here. ask some other americans if you dont believe me.They have an agenda, and its NOT the truth!
unless you are very rich, then of course fox news is the preferred source of information. Any american with an i.q. of over 100 and who doesnt have 2 million$ in the bank- totally igores fox news- except to make fun of them. Should i start quoting british tabloid news as an example of what you think?

 

[Kars]

Educational discussion here

As I hinted to before I think we're all victims of government and media lies.
And it's not nice to start to realise this. All sorts of feelings are stirred, and the secure view, perception, believes one has about oneself, 'our' country and the world are challenged. It's a rough mental process, and one often feels alone because our neighbours and friends still echo the old believes.
For me a lot of believes have been torn down, so much so that I went on to rebuild a new world view based on how people work. I remember that in High school I already saw countries as a reflection of a school class. You know, with all the archetypical types.
For morality I went to the core of respecting free will. So asking myself is it moral to force anyone?

I didn't know about what scientific advantage loose black clothing has in the desert, but thanks to some people here I've added that to my grammar.

I also noticed people using irrational reasoning. Not that I'm not making these mistakes.
Some Popular fallacies are:

The Appeal to Ridicule,
Example:
"Support the ERA? Sure, when the women start paying for the drinks! Hah! Hah!"

The Appeal to Common Practice,
Example:
"Yeah, I know some people say that cheating on tests is wrong. But we all know that everyone does it, so it's okay."​

I found these here: Fallacy Tutorial for Mac and Windows

I hope this helps to value people's arguments, so we do not get fired up over some emotional arguments or end up believing in something because some person succeeded in appealing to our emotions.

 

[sjurba]

Please my friends, lets not attack each other personally,do some co2 tables or take the dog out before you type.What were doing here is a great and important thing,were representatives from different worldwievs discussing and gaining understanding of one another.the world needs more comunication and understanding,not hostility.

 

[DivingDane]

JTKwest, do i dare bring up the Australian armed forces being asked to lend a hand after pearl Harbour? or i guess we're just one of those states down south somewhere..... They fought tooth and nail to protect a series of Islands which the Japanese required for landing long range bombers that were heading for the USA. they lost alot of people protecting those islands on your behalf.

i guess that's why i live here the Australian culture of just getting on with the job and helping out "Mates" when they need it is ingrained and nothing need be said no reminders down the track its a culture of"we do what we need to do when friends are in trouble)

we been involved in pretty much every war the US has been involved in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Irag, Afgahnistan etc not to mention some others WW1.

yet rarely do see you see an Australian shouting and harping on about the rest of the world being stuffed if Australia didn't bail them out.

i'm not an australian but i do live here, for reference i'm actually half Danish and half American (on my motherside). and i can say thankfully that the time i've spent in the US that the majority of the people i have met do not hold such extreme views as yours above, my family in the US are good Christians my Grandfather is a pastor in the church and even they don't talk about the people of Islam like you are here.

it's sad to see anyone culture being referred to as Barbarians, fanatics and backwards.

i hadn't realized that the rest of the world would have been speaking German if it wasn't for the US..... what a savior that you released us from such horror, really...... if we wanted to look at it in real terms the Nazi German party of the time would never have gotten much further, Russia at the time whether right or wrong simply had the numbers to keep pushing until the German forces simply ran out of supplies. yes its a great thing that the US were involved and they did help no doubt but to be arrogant enough to say that without the US the allied nations would have lost the war is a bit much.

its good to see a person patriotic to their country but at the expense of being rude to other cultures i don't think that's right or called for.

like i said before i don't agree with some of the Muslim beliefs but they choose tom live buy them just as many choose to live by christian beliefs, which I'd be more than happy to poke holes into for months on end ( sorry to any devout Christians on here). But its not my place to do it, because i don't agree doesn't give me the right to abuse somebody else s ideals.

anyway MERRY CHRISTMAS to all on deeperblue, may the waters be clear, your families safe and the beer cold!

DD

 

[jtkwest]

how do you know all these things really happened that way?
since you werent there.
are you getting all your information from british tabloids?
I used to think that extreme islamists were making people unhappy.
but now i know that it was all the U.S media giving out false info again.
since i wasnt actually IN the middle east to see all of this firsthand- that i really dont know anything about it.
So i ask you- did you land on that beach in the pacific where the australians saved the day? Probably just a bunch of patriotic propaganda from your government.

i heard-
The U.S. didnt just help in ww2. We LEAD both theaters of war.
Eisenhower was supreme allied commander.He was in charge of the aussies too.
Also, those airstrips you mistakenly thought were in range of the U.S- guess what they WERE in range of? the land down under.
so, thanks for protecting us from the bombers that were coming for you first.
you all helped, no doubt. but we were running the show. between our manufacturing capabilities supplying the brits, our invention of radar was instrumental in defending britains skies. and while it comes with mixed feelings,it was the U.S. who came up with the atom bomb first ,(everyone was trying, we were the best)
And say all you want about us, but when someone comes to invade another of you weaker little buddies of ours- dont worry- we will put aside all your complaints and liberate the weak once again. its what we do.
I only wonder if anyone would help US out.?
its ok--WE wont need it anyway.

 

[DivingDane]

the islands are there the tomb stones are there and i've met more than a couple of diggers who were there fighting. i never said anythig about saving the day i just pointed out that there are other countries that have helped the US from time to time.

i don't need to respond to the remaining part of your post as its derogatory enough to the rest of the world and its people for you to make a proper fool of yourself.

now to find a more positive thing to talk about, ahh thats right diving.

DD

 

[jtkwest]

it seems you have missed the point.
I am not expecting anyone to thank us for helping them out,
just stop complaining when we are trying to help someone else out,
calling us invaders and such.
I am sick of all the constant criticism of our poilicies.
everyone always looking for the fault in what we are doing, instead of seeing the good. They LOVE to see us fail, and get jealous when we succeed.
At this point , i'm just taking this position (arrogant nationalism) in response to all the nay sayers.
you did make the comment that WE caused the situation in afghanistan.
Not the guys that stone the women or behead the witches, but america?
You (australia) may be able to defend yourselves, but not everyone can, and when they need our help, maybe you shouldnt be so critical
THATS what i'm saying.
also that people who behead witches and stone people are barbarians.
(if the shoe fits.........)