Sea Angling for Spearos

[miles]

Normally on rods you'd get a recommended line class, like 7-15kg's or 15-30lb's. Thats generally the suggested line class that'll suit the rod. In most cases, i've found that the lower of the rating to be the one most applicable, like in the 7-15kg example, 7kg would be the most suitable.

Reels also have recommended line ratings. Take a 2500 sized fixed spool reel. It'll be rated to carry say 120-150' of 10lb line. With the advent of braid, which is considerabily thinner, you could get maybe the same amount of line on the reel, but in 30lb+ breaing strain. Reels are generally designed to cope with about 30% of the breaking strain of the maximum strength of line recommended. So, a 2500 sized reel, would be able to cope with 3lb drag (30% of 10lb), but not with the 30%of 30lb braid. Thats why manufacturers now give maximum drag rating on their reels. Especially on the bigger class reels, where anglers are now using 40-130lb braid on fixed spools.

 

[miles]

Foxfish, i can lift 13kg's dead weight with my Calstar rod and Simano 50W (lever drag) with 130lb class line!!

When we set our drags, i use a digital scale. Put the reel in free-spool, adjust the drag, push the lever drag to strike. I then get some-one to hold the rod, or i simply put it in the rod holder, thread the line through the eyes of the rod and then tie to the scale. I'll then walk away from the rod, pulling line off, reading the maximum reading on the scale. For normal tuna fishing, i set the drag's to 9-12kg's.

When a scale is NOT available, i will then use a known weight. I normally use a 10kg pool chemical container that is still sealed. That way i know the weight is 10kg's. Rig the rod and then tie the end of the line to the bucket. To get roughly 10kg's of drag, the bucket must gently fall back down as you lift it off the ground with the rod and reel. If the bucket stays on the ground, you simply up the drag. If the bucket gets lifted off the ground and doesn't start to fall back down, you need to lessen the drag. Each time you adjust the drag, it has to be done whilst the reel is in free-spool. (talking about lever drag reels)

I do this at least once a month, because drag settings always seem to change themselves!!

 

[blaiz]

Hiya

Lets talk reels!!
To get you drooling, start looking at these:

Van Staal reels: Van Staal VSB Bail Spinning Reels, Van Staal Reels, Van Staal - TackleDirect

Accutate Twinspin reels: ACCURATE SR-30 TWINSPIN

ZeeBaaS reels: http://www.all-americanoutdoors.com/inc/sdetail/1225

Daiwa Saltiga: http://www.all-americanoutdoors.com/inc/sdetail/368

One of the greatest mis-conceptions is that cheaper tackle means "inferior" tackle. Most of todays tackle is of good quality. In the hands of a capable angler, GOOD quality tackle will land him just as many fish as the top end exotics. Pretty much like saying a Omer Excalibur will work just as well as a Omer Master America or a C4 in the hands of a capable spearo!!

The reason these high end reels are so costly is because they're built to be able to handle HUGE fish and heavy lines. With the advent of braid, reels can now carry sufficient line to be able to handle large peagics. What DOES baffle me is their rated drag systems. You'll often read of 35lb+ of drags on these fixed spool reels. On my tuna gear, i can't pull 35lb's of drag, so how anyone with a fixed spool is going to pull 35lb+ of drag and not get dragged overboard is beyond me!!

I dont think I could ever shell out that kind of money for a reel (unless I was getting a conventional penn International trolling reel:blackeye). Granted they are beautiful pieces of equipment:inlove

I dont hear too much talk about Penn. Is it cause you consider them inferior? cheap?

Just speaking from experience I have used penns since I was about 12yrs old. My first being the penn 4500, I had that same reel until I was 24. It caught many fish, and as it goes with most of my stuff, I beat the hell out of it. I would come home and find that I had left the reel out in the yard crusted in salt for over a week, rinse it off, and it always worked fine. It was easy to fix, and the drag worked great and was easy to replace if it broke.

Now I own about 6 penn reels. A few conventional (4/0, 6/0) for occasional Ulua fishing or trolling. and a selection of spinning rods from the penn 4500 to the 950. My 950 is over 20yrs old and still works great. I also know that Penn is the choice of most fishermen here in Hawaii. The best part... You can buy a penn 950(Penns largest spinning reel) for less than 200$us. Just my thoughts

 

[blaiz]

Foxfish, i can lift 13kg's dead weight with my Calstar rod and Simano 50W (lever drag) with 130lb class line!!

When we set our drags, i use a digital scale. Put the reel in free-spool, adjust the drag, push the lever drag to strike. I then get some-one to hold the rod, or i simply put it in the rod holder, thread the line through the eyes of the rod and then tie to the scale. I'll then walk away from the rod, pulling line off, reading the maximum reading on the scale. For normal tuna fishing, i set the drag's to 9-12kg's.

When a scale is NOT available, i will then use a known weight. I normally use a 10kg pool chemical container that is still sealed. That way i know the weight is 10kg's. Rig the rod and then tie the end of the line to the bucket. To get roughly 10kg's of drag, the bucket must gently fall back down as you lift it off the ground with the rod and reel. If the bucket stays on the ground, you simply up the drag. If the bucket gets lifted off the ground and doesn't start to fall back down, you need to lessen the drag. Each time you adjust the drag, it has to be done whilst the reel is in free-spool. (talking about lever drag reels)

I do this at least once a month, because drag settings always seem to change themselves!!

Hey Miles, If I ever make it out to SA do you think I could come fish/dive w/you?:blackeye Sounds like your the guy to look up! I dont know if it will ever happen but I figure Ill set up my contacts ahead of timerofl

 

[miles]

Abu reels are a big dis-appointment for me!!! Really don't know what happened to them, as they use to make some of the finest reels available. With the exception of their 6500 Rocket series, their other reels have been surpassed by both Daiwa and Shimano.

I was a HUGE ABU fan. I can remember in the early 1980's, when i was still a novice angler, they brought out a yearly catalogue and featured the "Abu Dream Team". They'd select some ABU owners and take them fishing all over the world. I can clearly recall the one trip they made to India to target Mahseer. AWESOME stuff!! I'd daydream about catching fish like that!!

Sadly, my last ABU i bought was a 6500 lever drag, which was probably one of the WORSE reels i've ever owned!! I still have 2x6500's, 6500 rocket, 7000, 9000 and a 2speed 10000. Pity they couldn't keep up with the competition.......

 

[ADM]

Do you mean those short-ish gel lures with a single hook coming out the top? We occasionally try those from shore, although so far w/o success - but that's more to do with us than any particular lure. They are quite good for kids & inexperienced/accident prone adults too -- no nasty trebles to get hooked in & they cast well (I think the ones I have are around 30g). I think AtomicHaggis posted a link on trolling marks earlier on this thread. One of the reviews mentioned using one of those weighted gel lures on the end of the trolling mark with some success (for flat fish?).

That's the ones, hook on top self weighted like the storm shads or tempest sidewinder eels. Cast OK in the heavier weights and worked for me first try!! They are normally trolled on the boat but I can see them being deadly from the shore with the up facing hook not to get caught up so easy. I reckon they can fish in as little as 5ft of water on a fast retreive.

 

[Mr. X]

Hot tips, thanks ADM

...I dont hear too much talk about Penn. Is it cause you consider them inferior? cheap?

Just speaking from experience I have used penns since I was about 12yrs old. My first being the penn 4500, I had that same reel until I was 24. It caught many fish, and as it goes with most of my stuff, I beat the hell out of it. I would come home and find that I had left the reel out in the yard crusted in salt for over a week, rinse it off, and it always worked fine. It was easy to fix, and the drag worked great and was easy to replace if it broke.

Now I own about 6 penn reels. A few conventional (4/0, 6/0) for occasional Ulua fishing or trolling. and a selection of spinning rods from the penn 4500 to the 950. My 950 is over 20yrs old and still works great. I also know that Penn is the choice of most fishermen here in Hawaii. The best part... You can buy a penn 950(Penns largest spinning reel) for less than 200. Just my thoughts

You can certainly buy Penn here in the UK, I think Veals (big mailorder/on-line store here) carry them some boat rods & reels. With good exchange rates they should have been selling like hot cakes these last few years. Perhaps they are, I don't know much about sea fishing. UK companies have a nasty habiting of not passing on the benefits of exchange rates to customers --so it might be that they aren't as good value here as they should be. I think they might also be more popular for boat fishing than shore fishing. The ones I saw here were the same sort of prices as the Daiwas, Abus & Shimanos, which are probably more desirable.

I had a Penn multiplier that I bought v. inexpensively as a kid but I only ever got to cast it in the garden -- where it created major birds nest of line, how was I to know you had to brake it with your thumb. It struck me as well made, very solid with heavy chrome & proper ball-sealed oil ports. I sold it couple of years ago on ebay -- it was probably around 30 years old but still looked like new. I regret selling it now but I would rather see it used than sitting around.

Penn strikes me as a bit retro, a bit 1950s. Nothing wrong with that, there are lots of good retro US companies (Oysterizer, Wahl, Weber, Harley Davidson, Fender, Gibson,...). Maybe they just need to raise their profile in the UK, either by introducing good, innovative products (as Omer does for spearing) or by emphasising their existing strengths (e.g high quality, good value, long lasting, strong, easy to maintain, repair & use). I would think the UK is a pretty small market for them (esp. with EU & UK import tariffs) - but we seem to influence and have close ties with a lot of other countries.

BTW It wouldn't surprise me if Penn owned Abu, or vice versa, or Daiwa owned Penn, etc.

 

[Magpie]

Not far off Mr X, Shakespeare own Penn.

 

[Mr. X]

Not far off Mr X, Shakespeare own Penn.

roflInteresting.

Was just watching a *brilliant* program on bill fish (sword fish, sail fish & marlin). Amazing creatures & some rare footage. A rather worrying scene of hoards of commercial fishermen harvesting them & their food (Humbolt squid, sardines, amchovies,...), day & night, I think in Chile (most gets shipped to the US, much for animal feed & fertilizer - as they don't chill it, it's not great quality food). Although the problem is no doubt much more widespread. However, they also showed the success of two conservation project, on in Florida & the other in Australia.

Anyway, the tie-in, the reels featured for catching & baiting the bill fish were all rather cool looking, big ol' Penn multipliers (180T?). I bet that's what Earnest Hemmingway used -- although that Texas oil man who caught the biggest (or second biggest) game fish ever caught on a rod used, might have required some custom equipment(?).

 

[miles]

Watched a similar program just a few nights ago!! Is that the one where they show baby sailfish?? Its done by a diver who films these bill-fish. AWESOME show!!

 

[Mr. X]

Watched a similar program just a few nights ago!! Is that the one where they show baby sailfish?? Its done by a diver who films these bill-fish. AWESOME show!!

I don't recall seeing baby sailfish but I missed the last 20 minutes - frustrating as I was really enjoying it. There was some memorable footage, off Chile I think. They showed shoals of sardines forming these incredible fluid 3-D shaped as they tried to avoid predators - mainly sailfish. Then they showed maybe 10 or more sail fish swimming around the area with the sardines -- it was out of this world, just amazing footage. I know a lot of people get excited about sharks and others by Orcas/whales -- but for me, the sailfish is really something special.

 

[blaiz]

Does anyone have a link to a step by step how to on replacing eyes on a rod? I have a 14ft ulua pole that I need to replace a couple of eyes on. I know how to wrap and glass them but Im not sure about the best way to get the old eyes off.

any tips or links would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Mr. X]

In a similar vein, I'd be interested in any tips for replacing the tip ring - the father-in-law broke his off again. I'm sure I saw an article in a magazine that suggested using a rod of the thermal glue used in glue guns but heated with a cigarette lighter rather than a glue gun. Presumably the idea is to allow you to remove the tip in future without breaking the rod. (Is this how the original tips are fitted, or do they use flexible epoxy resin [see link below]?)

Found these links, not quite what we are looking for but some interesting info. (also found one for a fishing guide who never spends more that $50 on a fly rod because he keeps catching the tips in his car door!):

Attaching rod eyes? - copied the method on a coarse feeder rod. Basically all the shop did was replace the eye and whip it on with some insultion tape, has/does anybody else use this sa

[ame=http://www.flyforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21547]Rod eye help - Fly Fishing Forums[/ame]

 

[blaiz]

oh man, I just sacrificed one of my brand new Nito ultralights to the friggen car door! I almost cried!

I figured out how to get the eye off,

I cut the thread and epoxy along the foot of the eye with a razor blade to expose all the metal. The eye was easily pulled out and the remaining thread and epoxy just pealed off the blank. Fortunately the under wrap remained so I didnt have to redo that. Unfortunately I couldnt find the pole thread in the right color so now I have a blue wrap on a red and black pole

I rigged up a power drill to spin the rod as I epoxied it and it actually turned out pretty good. I have to re-wrap one more eye today so I will put a second coat on the first one too.

For anyone thinking of fixing a pole I highly recomend FLEX COAT. Easy to mix (1:1), nice smoothe high build, and a decent working time. You probably would have time to coat all the eyes on a pole with the first batch.

Mr. X I have used the glue on tips for a couple of my poles and they work pretty well. It all depends on how much of the tip has been broken off. If there is too much broken off it seems that the pole will never cast the same. Take your pole in the shop w/ you (if possible) and make sure you get a tip that fits real snug.

Good luck

 

[ADM]

Went on a mission to catch a bass this evening with the tide perfect for some of my old haunts and knowing the water was crystal clear, which it was in those places, perfect 10ft+ viz from the surface, just like it looked from the plane on my way back from London last night.

Shame there was nothing the first three spots so I stopped for a quick 5 at old faithful and after a few casts, fish on!! New rod is a 10ft Ugly Stick Lite spin and was hardly challenged but felt nice, lure was old faithful as well (come on then Mr X, what is it??), always works, just having an issue with the braid spinning on the spool of the new reel :vangry. Never mind... Fish measured 38cm so well undersize in the real world, went back like a rocket!!

 

[blaiz]

just having an issue with the braid spinning on the spool of the new reel :vangry. Never mind... Fish measured 38cm so well undersize in the real world, went back like a rocket!!

View attachment 19345

I just recently filled up my smaller penn w/ braid (cost me $22) same thing happened, and on a big fish too, went to set the hook and there was no resistance. Thought I lost the fish but i could still feel it peeling off line. It took me a minute to figure out what was going on, when I looked at my reel I could see the line on the spool spinning but not the spool:head. I just changed back to mono the other day. Ive tried, but that friggen braid has way too many issues. Plus I like the sport of the mono:blackeye

 

[okamotoa]

all you need to do is have a mono base layer then blood knot or which ever u choose... new braids are made ultra smooth but at a price of no drag there is no friction on the reel no no way to stop a fish.... you need bout 10 yd or meters of mono first then tie into ur braided thats all iv used last few years... and i learned the hard way with all the bird nest i made of my braided because of free spin!

 

[okamotoa]

and as for the pole tip if its still good places like walmart here have replacement tips with heat glue for $5-10 depending on the tip and all i used was a sodering iron to heat the tip then melt the glue to the inside and use a pair of pliers to put it back on the pole and whipe off any xtra glue before it cools

 

[Mr. X]

... New rod is a 10ft Ugly Stick Lite spin and was hardly challenged but felt nice, lure was old faithful as well (come on then Mr X, what is it??), always works, just having an issue with the braid spinning on the spool of the new reel :vangry.
View attachment 19345

Looks like some a Storm Original Thunderstick of some kind to me -- not jointed.

sigh still no image support

I just recently filled up my smaller penn w/ braid (cost me $22) same thing happened, and on a big fish too, went to set the hook and there was no resistance. Thought I lost the fish but i could still feel it peeling off line. It took me a minute to figure out what was going on, when I looked at my reel I could see the line on the spool spinning but not the spool:head. I just changed back to mono the other day. Ive tried, but that friggen braid has way too many issues. Plus I like the sport of the mono:blackeye

Like Okomotoa, I use mono backing to tie onto the spool and then tie the braid to the mono (with an Allbright knot). Mind you, I haven't had any huge fish to test it out on .

... It all depends on how much of the tip has been broken off. If there is too much broken off it seems that the pole will never cast the same. Take your pole in the shop w/ you (if possible) and make sure you get a tip that fits real snug.

This thing breaks off ever other time we go out. There is plenty of fine tip section left. I don't think we need be too concerned about this "never casting the same" again in this case -- last time my father-in-law just glued the tip inside the next sectionrofl. Good enough!

 

[blaiz]

This thing breaks off ever other time we go out. There is plenty of fine tip section left. I don't think we need be too concerned about this "never casting the same" again in this case -- last time my father-in-law just glued the tip inside the next sectionrofl. Good enough!

Im convinced that specta is responsible for all your broken tips. Those light poles just arent rated for that heavy a line. Plus the spectra doesnt stretch like mono so you get harder resistance when pulling your tip back. I dunno, Im just not liking this spectra stuff. I will keep an open mind and give it another try tho:friday