Sea Angling for Spearos

[ADM]

Which one is that then Mart? I think the NFSA shore final got moved as the Tourist board didn't want to play ball as angling is a minor sport over here........

 

[foxfish]

No this was the big one for boat anglers.... first prize was a 17' boat & motor!
The finale was held in Guernsey for 3 + years but I didn't here anything last September.
There was always a few finalist on your site looking for tips, some sort of knock out comp for the whole of England.

 

[Mr. X]

mr. x buy a knot book at the marina they show best knots for mono and braid and they only cost bout 2-3 dollers

Thanks for the tip. Any particular reason? (I didn't loose the lures - just swapped them!). These I use a v. small locking metal clip tied on with a palomar knot. I use the Allbright knot to join mono to braid & a timber hitch backed with a thumb knot to hold line on the reel spool. For fixed loops I use a surgeons loop or Rapala knot. For a slip loop I sometimes use a modified cinch to tie a hook on, usually use a Palomar if the eye is big enough tho'. I ause a dropper knot for tying snoods. That seems to cover most of my needs these days. I often refer to this: Grog's Fishing Knots Index

So my line usually looks something like this:
timber hitch 25lb mono on reel ---Allbright to 30lb Whiplash braid---Allbright to 15/17lb x 1m mono "rubbing trace"---Palomar to clip

Thinking of trying 20/25/30lb fluorocarbon for the rubbing trace - bit expensive though (Veals 365 is supposed to be good for this according to one of the mags).

A fishing competition in Guernsey with a 17' boat as a prize -- sounds like it might get dangerously competitive

It's still a goal to get a flat fish, I should try for a garfish -- I've occasionally see gar while diving. V. hard to see when they are just under the surface. I had one circle me like a predator at Chesil. I took a shot at another in open water near the surface - I think the gar (mullet, bass & mackeral) were all feeding on small silver fry that day. Was thinking it might be good cooked Japanese eel box style.

 

[okamotoa]

gar like fresh water gar? long and skinny like usually can get ur hand around tel they get over 4ft long? lol man u better go get some steel or cable leaders :crutchor ul loose every lure they take almost they got really sharp teeth only line they dont chew through very fast iv found is spider line xxx size of 8 lb mono but breaks over 30lb. btw its a superthin braid

 

[ADM]

Ah yeah. I remember now Mart. Haven't heard nowt since that chap asked, will have to look back and see if we got a report.

Anyways... I went fishing last night with a father and son, sorry no pics but we landed 2 schoolie bass, in fact I think those two were still in nursery let alone school... Still, the lad was chuffed and target species...

Went out for a day trip today, float fishing day followed up with some plugging/lure fishing for a shiny.

The float fishing was slow, but not as slow as bottom fishing at the moment...

We had about 6 beaks and one mackerel on the float. Not much but one of the beaks was an absolute stonker. We agreed that they can be superb fun if you do it right. 6lb line, 5lb trace and a 1lb t/c avon.

Pic of the beak against my leg for size comparison. He went 1-6-0



No secrets on that mark!!

I decided on a move when the tide had dropped off so long slog it was and plugging for bass with all sorts then switched to a secret little lure which didn't do much to start with until the tide started to slack off. I took over chucking the lure rather than watching getting sun burnt, had a few chucks and then got hammered with a bite, passed rod over quick and watched a lovely fish played in til I netted him.



He went 3-7-0 on the digi scales and yes I do wish I had him to myself... but the rules of GBASS (local bass club) only mention assistance with landing the fish, no mention of playing it so I reckon I'm in with a shout since I hooked and netted it all on my own :naughty

p.s. how do I get to have thumbnail pics not attachments which you need to click on to make big like these ones? Am I missing sommat??

 

[ADM]

Just checked Mart, that chap was posting Sept/Oct 2006, he came 6th. No mention of anything since then on the forums so it's Google all the way now...

 

[blaiz]

Sounds like the type of fishing you guys are doing is a little different from what I do here in Hawaii. Skimmin the thread I did see the occasional "popper". My favorite type of fishing here in hawaii is what we call "whipping." Basically casting from beach or rocks with a popper or yozuri (similar to a rapala). If anyone is interested in trying out different lures, check out this site

Mark White Lures - Kauai, Hawaii

This is the man who taught me all about shoreline fishing in Hawaii. He makes his own lures out of porcelain. Surprisingly they are very sturdy, and you can cast them a mile up wind.

We catch a lot of different types of trevally here in Hawaii. Pound for pound (kilo for kilo to you europeans) one of the hardest fighting fish in the ocean. Guys catch them up to and over 100lbs from shore. Most times the big boys are caught with a technique called "slide bait".

Here is a pic of an Omilu (blue finned trevally) I caught last year. 14lbs on 30lb test with a 40lb leader (considerably small tackle for this target species)

I had been whipping all day and had no luck. I decided to finish off the evening by going out to a lava rock point on the north side of maui. When I got there I realized I had left my slippers (hawaiian for sandals) at the previous fishing spot. It was getting late so I decided to charge it anyway.(we never wore shoes to school growing up so ive got pretty tough feet) I got out to the end of the point just as the sun was getting low on the horizon.

We had been to the same spot the night before fishing with some live bait. With no luck we decided to leave the left over "oama" (small goatfish) in a tide pool.

After casting a few lures I went to check if the bait was still in that pool. Well to my amazement they were. I was able to catch one, hooked it up, casted out and immediately got whacked but no hook up. Excited, I quickly rigged another bait and tossed it out. (barrel weight on main line to barrel swivel- 5ft 40lb leader - double live bait hook... With a slow retrieve) Instantly whacked again but still no hook up. Frustrated I decided to switch my hooks. I had just bought some expensive and very sharp circle hooks. Rigged up another bait, tossed it out, took a few cranks and ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. This guy ran straight for the end of the point. These fish are infamous for wrapping your lines around rocks and coral heads. Knowing this I tried to keep my line as high as possible, scrambling around the lava trying to fallow his run. Keep in mind Im barefooted, there is a north swell of about 6-8ft pounding on the rocks, Its almost dark, and Im by my self. Some how I managed to turn him around back in my direction. I get him up close enough to see what he was... and ZZZZZZZZZZZZ another run. This time he took my line around a large exposed rock to my right. Again I scrambled across the lava but in the opposite direction of the fishes run. I did this in order to get a better line between the fish and I. Miraculously I was able to keep my line from breaking on the rocks and turned him around again. This whole ordeal goes on for about 20 minutes and by this time both the fish and I are exhausted. I finally get him up to the edge... new problem.... No gaff, no net, and the surge was rising and falling about 8 ft up and down the side of the rocks. I had no Idea how I was going to land this fish. Some how after many attempts I was able to "surf" him up on a ledge and literally tacked him, threw him up on the rocks and yelled out in excitement. He wasn't and extremely large fish but It was one of the most exciting fights I have had to date.

Anyway, sorry about the rant. I wasn't expecting to go into the whole story, just kinda happened.:blackeye

 

[Mr. X]

Great story. Those porcelin lures aren't much more than some of the plastic Japanese Lures used in the UK (high end in the UK, mid-range compared to some Japanese lures), like Maria, Lucky, YoZuri & Daiwa.

 

[foxfish]

Yes, a great story & a beautiful fish.

 

[blaiz]

Great story. Those porcelin lures aren't much more than some of the plastic Japanese Lures used in the UK (high end in the UK, mid-range compared to some Japanese lures), like Maria, Lucky, YoZuri & Daiwa.

they are very affordable. Each lure is hand painted. He has sizes from 1/4oz up to 5oz. The biggest lure I use is the 3oz plug and after an hour of casting that with my 14ft surf rod I am usually spent. The fact that they are so heavy is kind of a double-edged sword. You can cast them a mile but you have to retrieve them very quickly to get the right action and keep them from snagging on the bottom. They do produce some very large fish though. Unfortunately for you the shipping might add a lot to the cost.

 

[Mr. X]

Oh yes, shipping to/from Hawaii normally incurrs a surcharge doesn't it. My spinning rod is pretty typical here & is only rated to cast 15-60g /2oz, which is more than enough for the vast majority of bass lures (most are 10g-36g). It's light & so is the reel, so not a great burden to cast a lot. I think that's one of MLs principles when selecting his gear - he discussed it recently as his wife bought him a new reel, a Shimano Stella 6000 I think, to better handle large tropical fish -- he opted not to go for the larger 10K/12K models commonly used because he did not want to "pay the price" with each cast, opting to put up with the occasional hard fight instead (he's from Yorkshire). I was going to say I doubt if my rod would handle a 100lb fish but you never know, having seen pics. of a guy with a 70lb+ tarpon caught on a Mike Ladle travel Spinning rod of similar specification - maybe it could? (I'd be happy for a fish 100th of the size currently).

Floating sub-surface lures (that usually go 30cm or less below the surface depending on speed, etc.) & poppers are the lures I hear of being used most here in the UK - mainly to avoid snagging weed & thereby avoiding loss.

 

[ADM]

Shallow divers and poppers are the way to go for bass in our waters here, unless fishing deep water when the new generation of weighted shads does the job

 

[blaiz]

I usually use Penns spinning reels. I have a selection but my favorite are the 4500 (rated to about 12lb test) I have this on a light action 12ft surf rod. Great for casting lures up to 1.5oz. I have landed a 25 lb mahi, a 45lb sandbar shark, and a 4ft tiger shark on this set up. Unfortunately 60% of the time I take this rod out I get spooled by something big. Then I opt for my 14ft surf caster with a Penn 750 or 950 spinning reel. These reels are rated to about 30lb test. If I get really pissed, as I did recently I switched the 30lb mono for 80lb spectra. But I really hate the spectra, granted you can cast further and have a better chance against breaking your line on the reef, Its just harder to deal with. Cuts your fingers, have to tie different knots, harder to cut (as I opt for cutting up to 60lb test with my teeth:blackeye), and tangles easily.

 

[okamotoa]

I prefere Abu garcia reels over any other its just something about the way thay feel in my hand and how they retrieve...

 

[Mr. X]

... I have this on a light action 12ft surf rod. Great for casting lures up to 1.5oz. I have landed a 25 lb mahi, a 45lb sandbar shark, and a 4ft tiger shark on this set up. Unfortunately 60% of the time I take this rod out I get spooled by something big. Then I opt for my 14ft surf caster with a Penn 750 or 950 spinning reel....

That sounds a little "other worldly" compared to what we can expect, let alone catch. Although ML reckons one of the places I fish sometimes has tope - which I believe is a small shark. Although I'd as soon not catch one.

... These reels are rated to about 30lb test. If I get really pissed, as I did recently I switched the 30lb mono for 80lb spectra. But I really hate the spectra, granted you can cast further and have a better chance against breaking your line on the reef, Its just harder to deal with. Cuts your fingers, have to tie different knots, harder to cut (as I opt for cutting up to 60lb test with my teeth:blackeye), and tangles easily.

Blaiz, get some little "braid scissors", off eBay if necessary. They are much cheaper than dental treatment:blackeye. I thought them unnecessary until I started using braid, now I use them all the time. Mike Ladle published some useful tips on using braid in the Veal.co.uk catalog. After a periods of mishaps, I found they helped a lot. As best I can recall they were things like:

- Don't fill your spool as much as with mono (braid is less forgiving). Within 2mm of the lip is about right.

-After you cast, flip the bail arm over manually & pull the braid with your finger to remove any loops/looseness.

- If you see a loop of braid over the top of your spool, deal with it immediately - that's what leads to tangles.

- Don't pull tangles tight

- If you find your lures' hooks catch in the braid, try adding a short rubbing trace (18"-a yard/1m) of mono.

The type of braid makes a difference. Initially I used some 20lb x 0.220mm "Penn Dynabraid tidecutter Supreme" braid which was very soft and tangly -- I think Magpie said it is intended for boat fishing rather than casting. I currently use 30lb x 0.100mm Berkley Whiplash Pro (USA company), which is super fine but a little stiffer & tighter woven. Being fine, it can wear through on rocks; I initially tried a lighter rating, 7.33kg/16lb x 0.097mm, I think - a bit too fragile). For the fish you are targetting it would probably work well enough but a much higher rating (e.g. 65lb x 0.210mm or 80lb x 0.240mm) would probably still be much thinner than your 30lb mono & last longer.

 

[Mr. X]

I prefere Abu garcia reels over any other its just something about the way thay feel in my hand and how they retrieve...

We used to love Abu reels for coarse fishing & spinning -- undoubtedly the #1 brand in this area (with US-made Mitchell's second). Then we grew up & stopped fishing and in the mean time they stopped making the reels we knew and loved. Truth be told, they were good and tend to last - I still have my 505 and have been thinking of loading it up with than 16lbx0.97mmm braid for a bit of freshwater spinning. My brother was not so lucky -- he made the mistake of storing his 503 in his rod bag. When he tipped his rod out one day (not long after he got the Abu) it bounced on the canal bank & into the water & mud below. Despite valiant efforts to retrieve it, he never saw it again. He switched to Mitchell reels after that, although he recently told me he has picked up a couple of Abus on ebay (a 501 & 506, the match reels of choice in their day) - even though he no longer fishes! Just in case I suppose. They were objects of desire & a pleasure to own - and apparently still are.

I think the old reels were designed & made in Scandinavia (Sweden?) to be strong, simple & easy to maintain & repair. The old Abu catalogs were things of wonder, to drool over. Salmon spinning. Their spinning rods then seemed to me like the C4 spearguns do now, exotic and futuristic. When I last looked though, the new Abu (& Shakespeare) coarse reels look like a random selection of the hundreds of other soulless, generic reels kicked out of China. The anglers I've spoken to avoid the brand now & tell me Abu went bust & the once prestige brand name is now just being used to hawk inferior products (to be fair, they seem more affordable too). I think the sea angling reels have faired better though -- it looks like they might have continued in the old vein. Also, I am pleased to see some of the classic old Abu lure/Toby designs from my childhood around. I don't know if the quality is the same.

I believe ML used to use Abu Cardinals for all his fishing but he now uses Shimano Stradics (& v. recently the super expensive Stella - the reward for a lifetime of fishing no doubt). I have become a Shimano convert although a little lower down the price range. [I always thought Shimano's mountain bike gears were overrated though - Suntours seemed to shift more smoothly & reliably.]

 

[Mr. X]

...unless fishing deep water when the new generation of weighted shads does the job

Do you mean those short-ish gel lures with a single hook coming out the top? We occasionally try those from shore, although so far w/o success - but that's more to do with us than any particular lure. They are quite good for kids & inexperienced/accident prone adults too -- no nasty trebles to get hooked in & they cast well (I think the ones I have are around 30g). I think AtomicHaggis posted a link on trolling marks earlier on this thread. One of the reviews mentioned using one of those weighted gel lures on the end of the trolling mark with some success (for flat fish?).

 

[miles]

Hiya

Lets talk reels!!
To get you drooling, start looking at these:

Van Staal reels: Van Staal VSB Bail Spinning Reels, Van Staal Reels, Van Staal - TackleDirect

Accutate Twinspin reels: ACCURATE SR-30 TWINSPIN

ZeeBaaS reels: http://www.all-americanoutdoors.com/inc/sdetail/1225

Daiwa Saltiga: http://www.all-americanoutdoors.com/inc/sdetail/368

One of the greatest mis-conceptions is that cheaper tackle means "inferior" tackle. Most of todays tackle is of good quality. In the hands of a capable angler, GOOD quality tackle will land him just as many fish as the top end exotics. Pretty much like saying a Omer Excalibur will work just as well as a Omer Master America or a C4 in the hands of a capable spearo!!

The reason these high end reels are so costly is because they're built to be able to handle HUGE fish and heavy lines. With the advent of braid, reels can now carry sufficient line to be able to handle large peagics. What DOES baffle me is their rated drag systems. You'll often read of 35lb+ of drags on these fixed spool reels. On my tuna gear, i can't pull 35lb's of drag, so how anyone with a fixed spool is going to pull 35lb+ of drag and not get dragged overboard is beyond me!!

 

[Mr. X]

Fishing reel pornography

... You'll often read of 35lb+ of drags on these fixed spool reels. On my tuna gear, i can't pull 35lb's of drag, so how anyone with a fixed spool is going to pull 35lb+ of drag and not get dragged overboard is beyond me!!

Maybe they mean its intended for someone using 35lb line with a rod intended for same -- isn't that how they rate boat rods/setups? (Ah...reading your link, I see what you mean).

So far I am pleased with my modestly priced Shimano Exage. It'll be interesting to see if/how the little 2500RA stands up to a big fish. I bought the 4000FA model for my father-in-law -- figuring the higher capacity, simpler controls, less exposed design & larger drag would be better for sea fishing than mine (for spinning/lure fishing from shore).

Quick update on the Shakespeare rods. My rod (10ft 2 piece Shakespeare Royalty, normal overlap joint) is still much the same as when I bought it, sweet rod. My father-in-laws rod (11ft telescopic Shakespeare Potenza) has been a bit of a nightmare -- with the tip ring breaking off three times!! Stupid end ring design, with a 45 degree slant:head. I'm sure I read somewhere that they use thermal glue for fitting tip rings (or is that just what they recommend when fitting replacements), so I'm thinking I might be able to get the end ring off using heat. Although I am also tempted to return the rod, again. I have always been wary of telescopic rods, apparently with with good cause.

 

[foxfish]

I can remember watching a basic test that involved trying to lift a 4x9 concrete block tied to a broom handle with a 3' lenth of rope. The block weighed 26lb but was impossible to lift rod fishing stye!