Sea Angling for Spearos

[atomichaggis]

Mr.X,
I assume the popper floats... as is the want of a surface lure. In this case the pulley isn't necessary. You can tie on a dropper on a single piece of line, even thinner diameter than your mainline... just use a surgeon's join (triple overhand)... no big ass blood loop required. Of course the pulley will give you an advantage of better control over your expensive popper if the eel gets hit.

As for the pulley, the principle is the same as the other pulley rigs... to lift the heavy thing up and out of the way of snags. the pulley rig is a rough ground rig and the weight of the fish lifts the lead up out of harms way.

 

[atomichaggis]

Funny lookin Mullet indeed ADM...


... and Isn't that a Bream he's holdin?

 

[Mr. X]

BTW re.

Just tie a swivel on the end of your mainline, thru which you feed your length for the lure(max 1.5m fluoro is the usual). On the loose end of that you tie on another swivel, and onto that swivel a short length to your fly (15cm max fluoro)... it's just a basic pulley with a longer length for your lure. experiment with lengths to suit your equipment.

The genius of this setup is appreciated when you are fishing with sinking lures like spoons and deep runners. the standard tied on dropper can result in the lure dropping and snagging when a fish grabs the fly and you can't retrieve quick enough to keep it safe from snags.
...

What size fluoro do you use/recommend? I've been thinking of getting some Veals Varivas 365 fluoro after seeing it recommended as a bass lure trace in Sea Angler magazine some time ago. It's quite expensive, so I'd like to make a good choice.

I was thinking of 20/25/30lb sizes but just found this review of 356, which suggests 25lb: Varivas Fluorocarbon 356 Line | Sea Fishing and Sea Angling Online
...although this one suggests 15-20lb for plugs (& I read a Henry Gilbey Sea Angler article where he describes using 30lb fluoro with 30lb braid when plugging): Understanding Fluorocarbon Lines | Sea Fishing and Sea Angling Online
So, somewhere in the range 15lb - 30lb?!

Looks interesting: Bass Fishing, Henry Gilbey | Sea Fishing and Sea Angling Online

 

[Mr. X]

Thinking on the "plug + fly/tiny eel" idea. I might try adding a single hook mackeral spinner ahead or perhaps behind a plug, instead of an eel. I have a couple in my tackle box. Along similar lines to a long, Rapala-like black/silver American Baggley lure I have which has a spinning propeller at the tail before the ring & tail treble hook (to simulate tail movement).

An small eel should add a good attracting vibration as plugs can seem a bit wooden, a luminous one or one with a lumi bead might add some visual interest too. A mackeral spinner should do the same, adding even more vibration & flash (although perhaps overkill for a popper).

Anybody use fire tail jelly worms?l I got some a while ago, not sure how best to use them. Did think of adding one to a single hook mackeral spinner, lead head or flounder spoon. I also wondered about using a Pennel rig (i.e. 2 hooks), as it would be easy for a fish to nip off most of the jelly before reaching the hook.

Bought some new Shakespeare Tidewater feather-type rigs from my local store today (cost 3x the price of Jim's!). They've got some interesting new variants & colours. Translucent, fluorescent shrimp with glitter & feather tails, & painted eyes. Glitter feathers with wound red bodies & small holographic foil wings. 3xMuppet "killer rig", with a large, trailing, single hook feather under each muppet. The rigs come with hooks from 6-0/6...so plenty of choice! They also had traditional feathers but with stronger colours lot of hooks on each rig (6+?) - although I bought some plain white ones from Jim's recently (bait fish often look silver/white to me).

 

[atomichaggis]

Mr.X,
0.30mm.
Measuring line in breaking strain is nonsense and measuring that strain in antiquated measures is backward too... wtf is a lb?
0.35mm if you don't trust it.

spinners cause a fair bit of drag... could cause see-sawing on a pulley.

 

[Mr. X]

Mr.X,
0.30mm.
Measuring line in breaking strain is nonsense and measuring that strain in antiquated measures is backward too... wtf is a lb?
0.35mm if you don't trust it.

spinners cause a fair bit of drag... could cause see-sawing on a pulley.

A pound (lb or # in the good ol' US of A), Euro Boy, is...was, the weight of a bag of sugar (or 2 apples?). Roughly half a European kilogram mass unit! 1kg = 2.2 lb. The world's most richest and most powerful nation (Saudi Arabia, I mean America) uses pounds.

I'm not buying breaking strain being unimportant when choosing line, although diameter is important too. That's how I ensure my trace break before my main line - diameter wouldn't work. Why would diameter be so important for fluoro line, which is claimed to be near invisible (I actually saw some that said "invisible in water" on the label)? By the way, I notice unusually thin, strong lines are usually more expensive (and often not clear/colourless) and that thicker, weaker lines are often promoted as abrasion resistant -- accentuate, the positive.

Re. spinner, good point although I think the spinner might have to go behind the plug in order to spin properly (so the main line doesn't block the blade), unless perhaps a paternoster/stiff snood is used.

 

[atomichaggis]

I'm gonna start weighing stuff in apples and bags of sugar now

Breakin strains are always within a fairly narrow range in each diameter (for the same material) you don't really need to read the label to know if it will hold... Abrasion resistance vs visibility is what tells for most.
Try dealing in diameters for a while... you won't change back.

another prob with spinner in front is that it would hit the line at times stopping it working properly yes... a fly with some good movement will do the job just fine.

 

[Mr. X]

I'm gonna start weighing stuff in apples and bags of sugar now

They say a Newton is roughly the force exerted by an apple falling from a tree under gravity -- so apples are metric too. Apples - its the future of measurement

 

[foxfish]

All the apples in Guernsey get coveted into our famous roquette cider & thereafter lies another form of measurement! How many ciders can you drink without falling over?
Then we must not forget that Magpie has his own way of measuring distance with apples.

 

[Mr. X]

Hardy Fly rod & sugar

On Top Gear yesterday, Jeremy Clarkson weighed German high performance silicon carbide car parts on a scale using...bags of sugar!

Just bought my first fly rod. I came across the rod in the local charity shop, probably a new aquistion but tucked away behind some hanging things. Small, light and old but the quality was immediately obvious - wood ball and cork ferrule protectors, ingenious anti-clockwise external thread brass ferrules, a close fitting bag with crests on the patch (inc. POW 3 white feathers), a second shorter tip with different style tip right. Tip & but rings lined but the butt ring is really thick brass - no expense spared. Without reading glasses I couldn't read the plaques or the bag badge but I thought I could make out "Bros." so assumed it was probably not a Hardy but thought it might have been custom made. I decided to buy on impulse, the quality was obvious.

Anyway I later got a young lad to read the label to me "Hardv" he said. The old guy standing next to me had already figured out what it was and he said "No, that's a Hardy. Well done!". So I've now checked it out with my reading specs. on and it is indeed a 3+1-piece Hardy "Aldwick Green Heart Rod" fly fishing rod. About 9ft with the main tip and about 6" shorter with the second tip. It has the Hardy Universal reel holder. We think it's split cane, although it sounds like "green heart" was sometimes used for tips(?). Don't know what green heart is yet though. It really is a gorgeous rod. Not sure what to do with it! Would be grateful for any insights and suggestions, on what this is, how it is built and whether/how to use it. We're surrounded by chalk streams, so I'm guessing this is trout rod intended for this type of water.

 

[Mr. X]

Hardy Green Heart Trout Rod?

I think it is this rod, although mine has no spike (accessory I think) & mine is in better condition (newer?): Hardy Bros Greenheart Trout Fly Rod
Fly Fishing History: The Quiet Revolution - 1900 to 1950
Greenheart Fishing Rod Maker - Clan Rods, Scotland

 

[foxfish]

Sounds like a nice rod, green heart comes from a laurel tree, I think?

 

[atomichaggis]

Re: Hardy Green Heart Trout Rod?

I think it is this rod, although mine has no spike (accessory I think) & mine is in better condition (newer?): Hardy Bros Greenheart Trout Fly Rod
Fly Fishing History: The Quiet Revolution - 1900 to 1950
Greenheart Fishing Rod Maker - Clan Rods, Scotland

Looks like you got yourself a bit of a collectors item there.

 

[atomichaggis]

Fishy reportings from me:

Went out in the tub armed with a 5-20g lure rod and a couple of 1/O match hook armed running ledger rigs with flatties in mind.

First fish refused to come up for some time and dissapeared back to ground a couple of times, was a hell of a fight on the light gear.

Eventually he was defeated tho:

Not what I had in mind but a nice score of some 20 apples and a few slices.

Many dabs followed before the fine hook snapped in ones mouth. I managed another fish before I lost my last remaining rig.

Gurnard lite:

went hardcore after a Bass afterwards with lures but it was all mackies and Gars.

 

[portinfer]

Nice rod Mr X - I'd go fly fishing for bass at dawn but then again I do live within spitting distance of the bass ! Have a check on Mike Ladles site I think he goes flyfishing from the shore - could be fun.

Good catches Atomichaggis - looks like fun !
Ed

 

[Mr. X]

Went out in the tub armed with a 5-20g lure rod and a couple of 1/O match hook armed running ledger rigs with flatties in mind.

First fish refused to come up for some time and dissapeared back to ground a couple of times, was a hell of a fight on the light gear.
...

That's a heck of a fish for light gear Atomic. What line were you using, 17lb/.35mm-ish mono?

 

[atomichaggis]

That's a heck of a fish for light gear Atomic. What line were you using, 17lb/.35mm-ish mono?

Second biggest fish I've taken on that rod.
Was using 0.30mm (16.9lb apparently) mono for the trace and a 0.35mm mono leader and possibly 0.29mm fireline mainline... weakest link in all that was the kamasan match hook which was made of steel

 

[Mr. X]

Flying C's & Hardy Bros. trout rod

I got my first trout with the Hardy Bros. trout/fly rod - my neighbour gave me a rainbow trout from his freezer after I took it round to show him! Not certain but it might be very old. Although the rod says "The Alnwick Greenheart rod" the catalogs appear to call it the "Celebrated Alnwick Greenheart rod", made from 1886-1952 - a 66 year production run, so must have been OK. The serial number suggests it is from 1892!!! However, I think that must be wrong, the condition is too good - they used various numbering schemes.

I've also had advice from two veteran fishermen. One thought he had heard Greenheart aged and so recommended not using it, he thinks it is valuable. The other, who actually handle it, thought the tip had a good amount of spring and should be used to stop it loosing that flex. He also thought it would be valuable and suggested a couple of stores (Hardy Bros. in Pall Mall & a store in Winchester), and a magazine that carried ads. for such things.

Also bought some Flyin' Cs / Flying Condom lures. The ones I'd seen previously were a bit light (intended for trout and salmon I believe) but found some heavier ones on eBay (18g & 25g - they have a built in barrel lead weight). I'm hoping they will combine the positive characteristics of a heavy toby, a Mepps spinner and an Eddystone eel - of course they might instead have the disadvantages of all. They are very compact so I think they'll cast well although the treble hooks strike me as rather small for sea fish -- can always change them later though.

[ame=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flying-Cs-x-4-20g-Mixed-Colours-TOP-QUALITY-LATEX_W0QQitemZ250275728590QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250275728590&_trkparms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14.l1318]Flying C's x 4. 20g. Mixed Colours. TOP QUALITY LATEX!! on eBay, also Game Fishing, Sea Fishing, Fishing, Sporting Goods (end time 03-Aug-08 19:38:14 BST)[/ame]

The shiney bullet double blade Irish versions look interesting too:
[ame=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380041110284]10 DOUBLE BLADED FLYING C LURE SALMON / PIKE / BASS 22g on eBay, also Game Fishing, Sea Fishing, Fishing, Sporting Goods (end time 24-Sep-08 22:11:39 BST)[/ame]

 

[Jonny250]

Well done on the fish Atomic - nicely done! Sounds like a nice rod X, sounds like one to sell... btw greenheart is a traditional wood used in boatbuilding, Guanan i think. it should have a good life.
the flying C's are famously good (prior to modern lures tho) but the drag is considerable compared to a typical plug lure. Good luck with it

 

[atomichaggis]

I'd find an expert about that rod Mr.X... sounds promising. You had a look around forums for info?

Those 25g flyin Cs are alright, not as much drag as some of the huge salmon spinners but they'll put a bow in your rod. trouble I had with them tho was the hooks rusting like hell, not an enduring lure... don't think you can change hooks either.