Spearfishing Tags For Gameish Species? One Man's Dream!

[Fondueset]

You are right and the idea of a documentary video with voice-over might be a good way to get something out there.

A fisherman, getting tormented by Lake Trout playing with his lure all day, sees a diver go in and come out an hour later with a fish. What he doesn't see is repeated, motionless 90 second plus breath-holds at 10 meters in 55f water. The fact that there are no 'accidental catches' or that the diver is careful to avoid gravid females.I think presentations to Angler's groups with a live person and video would be even better.

We need to create a sense of camaraderie so that 'their rights are our rights' - like the fishing rights alliance or FRA in the gulf states.
I wouldn't mention the pole-spear idea or try in any way to dumb it down out of the gate.
I think it may be more productive to take the position that these regs are completely unfair. Let them propose conditions. Ours should be that free dive spearing in open water poses no threat.

Unfortunately videos depicting what we actually do would be pretty boring for most people to watch - the pictures on my web-site don't show anything about what I went through to get them. Thats a problem with most spearfishing videos - they tend to show a series of rapid fire shots of fish getting hit by spears - usually with some fairly harsh music in the background. This hardly represents our sport - which is more about the process than anything else. Here in the great lakes underwater hunting would be more like it is in the Med - where divers work very hard for relatively small fish.

I'd propose we form a sort of midwest underwater hunting alliance (MUHA !?) and approach it as a regional issue - I think there is some coordination between the states regarding Lake Michigan - which would be the most interesting environment for underwater hunting.

 

[spaghetti]

I second that Chris. Call it a federation, an association, an alliance or whatever, but you must be a formal organization.
Don't you have any national spearfishing organization in the US? Why don't you ask them to help opening a freshwater branch of it? From the italian experience, I'm quite sure this could help your "lobbying" over there.
Question: is there any commercial fishery actitvity on lake Michigan? I mean professional fishermen using nets, trawlers et cetera? The reason I ask is fundamental: in my country spearfishing is allowed only in lakes in which there's an important activity of commecial fishery, and therefore it's easier to raise our flag (how could anyone protest against recreational spearfishing while tons of fish are netted every day?). In those lakes, we can hunt every sort of fish with the same rules and harvest limits of sea hunting (with one exception: no spearing during reproduction/breeding periods) and we also have national competitions, organized by the National spearfishing federation.

 

[Fondueset]

There is quite a large commercial fishing industry here. I would expect opposition from them however - they and the anglers are very possessive about game fish. Interesting precedent however - much more democratic than here But then wasn't democracy invented in Italy?

 

[bgill]

Wow...this is getting better everyday. Spaghetti..your imput is a huge help...Thank buddy! You earned yourself a REP point today! Fondueset also! AND ILDiver...The Video idea is great! You get one too! You ALL make me so happy!

If we all get our heads together on this I think we sriously have a shot at getting the spearing regs opened up for discussion and eventual change!

This winter on the really cold subzero days "when I am not changing diapers" I will be working on this. I hope by summer to be able to put together some sort of presentation, video, or whatever to petition the state with - That way it can possibly be voted on at the spring hearings in 2009...I know it seems a long way off..but in reality this is not just for US...It's for future generations of freedive spearing enthusiast.:inlove

A "Midwest Alliance" or something like it definately HAS to be formed somehow.
I have ALOT of good ideas - and plenty of "fight" :koin me. But I tend to do everything the old fashion way. I have no clue as how to form an alliance or whatever - But I CAN LEARN! :duh

MUHA BABY! MUHA!

 

[spaghetti]

Okay okay but again, question: is there a US national spearfishing organization to rely on? I guess there must be something like that: who set the rules for the national spearfishing champs, who send the referees to national competitions? There must be an organization officially entitled to do that....).
I'm asking again cause I'm sure that such organization, if it already exists, will support your initiative same as our F.I.P.S.A.S. does in my country.
If you act up as individuals, or as a newborn association with a few members, it will be harder to achieve your goal than it would be as a "branch" of an established national organization, with a political "weight" and an officially recognized experience in legal and environmental issues....

 

[Fondueset]

Theres these guys

The FRA Fishing Rights Alliance

Thats about all I know of.

 

[bgill]

I've reviewed thier site and have ALREADY asked for help!!!! We'll see what happens!

 

[Jon]

There is a commercial fishery in Lake Michigan, but its in sad shape right now- NO fish! My brother-in-law used to be a commercial fisherman out there and, finally, quit a little over a year ago because he was going broke, but still putting in 14 hours days.:head

Some of the scientific muckty-mucks are predicting the lake to be dead in the next decade or two. The invasives have really taken their toll on everything in there. Even the shipwrecks are falling apart from the shear weight of the zebra, and quaga, mussles attached to their hulls. The zebra's were one thing, only going down 100', but these quaga's are twice as big, reproduce all year long, and go down 500'- sucking the base of the food chain dry.

I'd be up for any effort to let us spear more things in more places- even if it is limited to breath hold and polespears.

Jon

 

[ILDiver]

I do realize that a video on exactly what we do would be extremely boring. This is why I said some video illustrating the facts. The only reason I suggest a video would be as a leave behind presentaion or an initial contact sort of thing. If you go to talk to the DNR and express your views, whoever you talk to will have to talk to someone else most likely. Leaving the thought out presentation and printed facts highlighting the key points gives one more chance for the proper message to be passed on. Along with a maintained website could also be an option.

I would not want to limit ourselfs to polespears and slings right off either. But for certain fish, I would not be opposed. Rough fish gun is legal, game fish pole or sling.

 

[Spaniard]

It's funny how attitudes are different around the world. As I understand it, some of you guys in USA can spear carp as they are deemed 'rough' fish? Please correct me if i'm wrong. Here in the UK the Carp fishery is one of the most sought after by coarse fishermen, catch and release. Indeed, because of a huge increase lately in Eastern European immigrants into the UK, there have arisen huge issues. The immigrants consider Carp an outstanding eating delicacy and, not understanding the catch and release ethos of these 'protected' carp, are going around emptying many lakes of the prized carp. There have been a few violent altercations between UK anglers and immigrant fishermen! Lots of £GBP are spent keeping Carp fisheries healthy for the UK anglers and it is interesting to see how in other countries they are seen as 'second class' fish. Food for thought.

 

[land shark]

The process is to change the state law nothing more or less. Every year our legislators act on bags and seasons ect. It takes valuable time and taxpayers money.
They base their votes on recomendations from the authorities. So getting some form of a proposl and a hearing on the question at the conservation congress is the vital and first step. To get there requires jumping through the hoops of DNR as well. Such as
getting the fisheries dept to say that the bags could withstand the added pressure.
Lymnology would have to say that the practice should not hurt the enviornment ect.
Game wardens will have to acess the feasiblity of enforcement and costs of enforcement it may pose.

One the plus side a lot of those guys are just like us. They like to dive or have dove in the past. Im not sure that comming on like gangbusters with organizations behind us is gonna set well with the anglers. The picture they may see is a lot of divers lining up at the same place they fish and competeing for the same resource. Perhaps if we show it like it is, a small minority of divers wishing to share the cost of management and that as stewards perhaps we have something to offer help with management. I mean after all myself I would be sacrificing hook and line time to try to get one with a breathhold.

Any ways once you got the goahead from the CC then you have to lobby the law.

just some thoughts

 

[ILDiver]

It's funny how attitudes are different around the world. As I understand it, some ... seen as 'second class' fish. Food for thought.

Carp are not widely eaten here. So the fish can get to be a nuisance. One lake at a fishing club my father used to belong too is over run with carp and the DNR considers the lake a dead lake. Since no one takes the carp out, they eat the grass, the bass and bluegill have nowhere to hide. So the lake would have to be poisoned or drained before balance can be restored.

Asian Carp have become a nusiance in the Illinois River. They are not native and they have no natural preditors. So south on the river in Havana (Illinois) a guy started a company harvesting carp, processing and sending it over seas. The river is one of the few places in Illinois I can legally spear, but the river is the last place I want to get in the water. Vis is maybe a foot.

 

[Fondueset]

Hey Spaniard,

This summer, as I was gearing up, I ran into a Brit who started telling me about how he and his pals are into carp fishing internationally. He then started talking about my website and my 'Carp Flyover' video.

I told him it was my site and he shook my hand - I felt like a celebrity! We have huge carp here - and I think the Freshwater drum have great potential as gamefish. I see more of them now than carp!

The carp here are european carp - not the buffalo and asian varieties. And they are not common in inland lakes at all here - for some reason.

Anyway - I've received e-mails about my pics from the UK and it seems some fisherman are making their way over here!

 

[atomichaggis]

Careful there Fondueset, You'll end up with endless rows of Englishmen with poles on racks, dangling their hooks and tossing handfuls of boilies into Your nice lake there.

 

[Fondueset]

Well, at the very least they are polite - and when they aren't Americans can't tell because they are so well-spoken.

World Famous Carp Flyover Video!!

 

[James Jay]

Careful there Fondueset, You'll end up with endless rows of Englishmen with poles on racks, dangling their hooks and tossing handfuls of boilies in to Your nice lake there.

To late. I met up with a gentleman with 3 poles on a rack here in Menasha fishing for carp. He was using barbless hooks with some type of chum sack attached above it full of corn meal.

He would weigh them, have his pic taken with them and put them back. His English had more english than mine so I assume he was an Englishman. He spoke of how carp are the only true game fish to catch and was rather proud of his angling. He caught over 100 lbs of carp that afternoon and had quite a crowd gathered while he promoted carp fishing.

 

[Whopperhead]

He should go to the Neenah Creek in the Spring time - They are so thick there that you can walk on them. Thousands of them, and more every year. As a result of more carp - Less and Less Game fish.

 

[James Jay]

He should go to the Neenah Creek in the Spring time - They are so thick there that you can walk on them. Thousands of them, and more every year. As a result of more carp - Less and Less Game fish.

Sadly he will only encourage this. I wish I would have asked him his thoughts on the destructive natrue of this fish in these waters.


I think tags for gamefish in Lake Michigan is a geat idea. Especially for salmon:t. I was a little shocked to read Jons post on the destruction that evasive quagas (and others) have had on this lake. I can't imagine how spearing with tags would have any kind of negative impact in comparison to this.

Everyones comments have helped in understanding the problem and shed light on possible solutions. It would be great to see a Great Lakes Spearfishing Tournament someday in the distant future.(If the fish don't dispear)l Sorry I can't offer any help as I am so new at this.

Viva "Midwest Spearfishing Alliance"

 

[land shark]

If you guys guys wanna upstage him just use some oatmeal balls

 

[Fondueset]

I have a hunch our euro carp - which have been in the big lake since the 1870s, may be earning their keep, along with the drums, grinding up the Zebra Mussels. I don't know what gets down there to the quaggas though - Sturgeon maybe?