Speargun Reel DIY

[popgun pete]

Well that was valuable. A reel that is no longer made but it doesn’t matter since I wouldn’t want one anyway and they must realize that since they discontinued it.

You can still buy it smart arse. I bought this one last week.. Probably too expensive to make with gears and right angle drives, it contains a lot of component parts.

OMER Match Race 90 Speargun Reel | eBay

Speargun reel featuring a gear system which allows, for each turn of the handle, 1,5 turns of the reel. The retractable handle is made in stainless steel.

www.ebay.com

 

[popgun pete]

Gun reels not often being stocked in the stores, there were no dive shops as such as they came along later, we used the Australian Academy fishing reel that was all plastic, probably polyethylene. The cheapest model had no drag, but importantly it had a clicker which could be used as a detent on the line running out. On my guns I made it so that it could be switched on and off, with it usually being off. The reel is quite light and was basically a line retriever. Here it is on my own general purpose timber reef gun using the original Sea Hornet all metal trigger mechanism removed from a Pacific tube gun handle. The other gun with its 3/8" shaft is for bigger specimens. The Academy reels came in white, black or green, you bought whatever they had in the store at the time as usually there was no choice on offer.

 

[popgun pete]

Here is an old Academy Reel opened up and you can see the clicker mechanism. This was on a gun that had been left sitting in sunlight for years, so the plastic has started to crack, but then the reel is over 50 years old. The rod mount has been cut off and three self tapping screws hold the reel backplate to the gun. The spindle bolt can be replaced by using a longer bolt running up through the gun's timber stock. Never had one of these ripped off the gun, but that was due to evaluating what I shot with the gun concerned, otherwise I ran a breakaway rig.

 

[popgun pete]

Rotating the white control knob turns the clicker off as instead of pointing into the ring of moulded teeth it points away, the brass leaf spring controls the detent action and the positions that the white triangular piece can sit in with nothing happening. This would be a useful feature for a 3D printed reel as then you could print the teeth, it is not something that you turn up on a lathe. Most commercial reels just have a drag controlled by a knob that presses on a washer, but I have not seen any with a clicker in recent years.

 

[popgun pete]

Looking at reel weights the Omer One Reel in 80 metre capacity weighs 204 grams without line and a Mares Vertical Spiro 87 Reel weighs 137 grams without line. Compare this with the 314 grams for the Match Race Reel, these three reels all having similar line capacities. Looking through a gap in the latter's upper casing you can see a smaller gear sitting directly on top of the spool being driven by a larger diameter gear on its periphery acting through an elbow connection to the winding handle sitting directly above it. Those extra gears and shaft drive angle change through 90 degrees are what pushes up that reel's weight.

 

[GRAPHITE SPEARGUNS]

Rotating the white control knob turns the clicker off as instead of pointing into the ring of moulded teeth it points away, the brass leaf spring controls the detent action and the positions that the white triangular piece can sit in with nothing happening. This would be a useful feature for a 3D printed reel as then you could print the teeth, it is not something that you turn up on a lathe. Most commercial reels just have a drag controlled by a knob that presses on a washer, but I have not seen any with a clicker in recent years.

im guessing the clicker is for a small amount of tension but not much just to keep the spool from free spinning?

im trying to design around having a bolt with a cut and matching washer as i dont have the necessary metal working skills to achieve this and buying a part like this seems hard to find. i think having the reel simple is a good idea but i also want that simplicity to be smart i think the riffe reels achieve this quite well were user experience is very simple but im sure designing would have been difficult.

 

[GRAPHITE SPEARGUNS]

Looking at reel weights the Omer One Reel in 80 metre capacity weighs 204 grams without line and a Mares Vertical Spiro 87 Reel weighs 137 grams without line. Compare this with the 314 grams for the Match Race Reel, these three reels all having similar line capacities. Looking through a gap in the latter's upper casing you can see a smaller gear sitting directly on top of the spool being driven by a larger diameter gear on its periphery acting through an elbow connection to the winding handle sitting directly above it. Those extra gears and shaft drive angle change through 90 degrees are what pushes up that reel's weight.

is it possible to make a reel neutrally buoyant. i haven't done any testing myself but in general do you think reels are more towards sinkers or floaters, if a reel was designed properly and made with the right materials either light weight or heavier for buoyancy needs you could have a neutrally buoyant reel that attaches to a gun and does not need anything extra.

 

[popgun pete]

im guessing the clicker is for a small amount of tension but not much just to keep the spool from free spinning?

im trying to design around having a bolt with a cut and matching washer as i dont have the necessary metal working skills to achieve this and buying a part like this seems hard to find. i think having the reel simple is a good idea but i also want that simplicity to be smart i think the riffe reels achieve this quite well were user experience is very simple but im sure designing would have been difficult.

The spool will not free spin with the clicker engaged, I have used that reel for decades. You have to pull on the line to turn the reel. You certainly don't want the clicker on if your line wraps have been exhausted and the shaft is pulling on the reel. That happens when a 3/8" shaft is hauling line.

As an example I was spearfishing with my big reef gun on a headland shore dive when unexpectedly two Spanish Mackerel swung in. I had seen them in similar locations, but I was not set up for them with the reel gun. When they came by for a second pass I decided to try a headshot with the necessary lead and they would be in firing range and I couldn't resist it. The 3/8" shaft flew from the gun in a flat parabolic shot as I had adjusted the gun tilt when to my consternation I heard the clicker which meant all two wraps had been exhausted as the shaft hit the nearest fish putting on the stoppers. The fish swam off, but somehow sensing I was now harmless swung by for another closer look. One fish had a small white flag above and just behind his eye where the Mako breakaway tip had cut it, the clicker saving it from the big shaft tunnelling through its brain. By now I was cranking my line in and reloading the shaft and sensing trouble the fish then departed.

That was a 19 foot horizontal shot from the front of my gun to the speartip before the clicker started, so about twenty feet which is a long shot underwater. Yon can add another 4 foot two inches to my gun hand on the rear grip, the front grip is just for hauling the cannon around, using 3/4 inch band power.

 

[popgun pete]

is it possible to make a reel neutrally buoyant. i haven't done any testing myself but in general do you think reels are more towards sinkers or floaters, if a reel was designed properly and made with the right materials either light weight or heavier for buoyancy needs you could have a neutrally buoyant reel that attaches to a gun and does not need anything extra.

Such a reel would have bulky dimensions as any foam in its construction would need bracing. Unlike a line fishing reel which has a lot of strain on it when a fish is pulling on the line the speargun reel only has load when a fish is peeling line off and you have a drag engaged. The pull on the reel will be limited to what it takes for the fish to pull you through the water when the fish spools you and the gun can be ripped out of your hands. Normally I have headed down by then to grab the fish which has been impaired by the hit if not stoned. I only use the reel to haul in line after the fish is done for by a bit of knife work, if that is even necessary. I use 5/16 or 3/8 inch shafts to put the stoppers on the fish from the impact energy of the hit, always going for the head.

Fish that are too big or strong I use my breakaway rigged guns, you don't hunt big stuff with a reel unless your buddies can drill the fish and cut his swimming ability. Too much line in the water and the fish may wind you up doing orbits, but if it is a bottom sounding fish you should be OK as the fish holes up. Then you employ your back-up gun to finish it off, or other weapons that can accomplish this task.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

For what it’s worth my Aussie Reels weigh 316 grams spooledwith 50 meters of dyneema and including the two wood screws that attach them to my guns. I wish I had a good way to weigh them underwater but they are the closest to neutral of any reels I’ve used. I like my guns to barely float with the shaft in and my Abellan and Ulusub guns have adjustable ballast that allows me to remove enough lead so that they do that. Of course that isn’t an option with your gun.

 

[GRAPHITE SPEARGUNS]

For what it’s worth my Aussie Reels weigh 316 grams spooledwith 50 meters of dyneema and including the two wood screws that attach them to my guns. I wish I had a good way to weigh them underwater but they are the closest to neutral of any reels I’ve used. I like my guns to barely float with the shaft in and my Abellan and Ulusub guns have adjustable ballast that allows me to remove enough lead so that they do that. Of course that isn’t an option with your gun.

Cheers bill for the info. i think all information is valuable at this early stage of design and any consideration is good be it useful or not i think filtering it is my own responsibility and will end up with a product that i like and think is best.

 

[popgun pete]

Bottom line is people will buy what works and the fancier reels are not really an attraction. The geared reel was to speed up the retrieval of the line and at 90 metres that would be worthwhile if the line was all out, but how often would that happen? A smaller gun is unlikely to need a big capacity reel in any case because the limitations on the prey it can take due to its striking power, or the lack thereof. Making a reel for yourself, well that can be whatever you want, unless you expect to market it.

I started spearfishing in 1966, just before the SMG came out, which we read about in Skin Diver magazine, there being no computers at home or social media. The Sea Hornet guns had just been released, so that was the basis of other guns I built, starting off with Undersee's Bazooka, a throwing plate special.

 

[popgun pete]

This is the level wind reel that I mentioned earlier, it being another idea transposing across from the angling world, the Ermes Sub Leonardo 77.

The Leonardo Reel was around in 2015, but I have never handled one, see below. The curly tail on the above reel is a trigger finger guard frame.

The crank handle on the above reel pulls out to make it longer, seen above it has been pushed in so there is less sticking out beyond the spool body diameter. Note the nuts and bolts don't come with the reel, you get them with the quick release mount as seen on the Avatar gun shown below, a couple of posts down.

 

[GRAPHITE SPEARGUNS]

This is the level wind reel that I mentioned earlier, it being another idea transposing across from the angling world, the Ermes Sub Leonardo 77.
The Leonardo Reel was around in 2015, but I have never handled one, see below.

ermes seems to make some quality stuff, ive always liked there triggers. the line winding system looks very well thought out very little moving parts for what it does, im guessing the moving head is calculated to distribute line onto the spool evenly. i wonder how the head moves back and forward after it reaches either end?

i wonder if it ever get jammed up because of the distribution in line, it also makes me wonder if there is a higher jam rate on either the horizontal or vertical reel?

 

[popgun pete]

ermes seems to make some quality stuff, ive always liked there triggers. the line winding system looks very well thought out very little moving parts for what it does, im guessing the moving head is calculated to distribute line onto the spool evenly. i wonder how the head moves back and forward after it reaches either end?

i wonder if it ever get jammed up because of the distribution in line, it also makes me wonder if there is a higher jam rate on either the horizontal or vertical reel?

It uses a screw thread drive cross cut with another going the other way, so at the end of travel one way it reverses and goes back. This reciprocating travel ideally lays the line, but the tension increases as the line being wound under pressure changes angles. Not really a problem on a speargun reel as you are simply retrieving line with your capture already dead and accounted for.

Fish were fought using big reels in the past by guys like Jack Prodanovich who used a float and pulley system to run the line through, that pulley acting as an intermediate element. The Jackpot reel is mounted on one of his earlier guns, you can pick it by the safety lever seen just above the trigger. His later guns have a jiggle pin in the trigger arm.

More here: https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/vintage-scubapro-speargun-modification-discussion.119156/

 

[popgun pete]

Well I finally got my hands on a Leonardo reel in titanium and can see exactly how it works. It is a 57 metre version, but it is exactly laid out like the 77 metre in the photo above, so I will use that same photo for annotations. As the oscillating line guide works its way across the lead screw the small bolt projecting at right angles from the guide tube body tilts slightly away from the direction it is then traveling in. On hitting the end of the lead screw the nut inside the guide tube body revolves in the guide to go the other way on what now becomes a left hand screw thread, both screw threads being cut in the opposite directions on the lead screw bar. The perpendicular bolt now tilts the other way.to the new direction that it is travelling in on the lead screw bar,

 

[popgun pete]

Some info on the Leonardo Reel.

The 57 model weighs bare between 172 and 175 grams depending on the scales used. No line and no reel mount, just the reel frame, hardware and spool.

Above is the Avatar gun loaded up with everything except the kitchen sink. Besides the fish clicker and GoPro mount there is also a trigger finger guard mount using a delrin wedge sliding block engagement for quick release of the reel. Shoot things that are too big, unless you stone them or turn off their helm control, and the fish may haul away both your reel and your gun.

 

[GRAPHITE SPEARGUNS]

Some info on the Leonardo Reel.

The 57 model weighs bare between 172 and 175 grams depending on the scales used. No line and no reel mount, just the reel frame, hardware and spool.


Above is the Avatar gun loaded up with everything except the kitchen sink. Besides the fish clicker and GoPro mount there is also a trigger finger guard mount using a delrin wedge sliding block engagement for quick release of the reel. Shoot things that are too big, unless you stone them or turn off their helm control, and the fish may haul away both your reel and your gun.

That ermes gun is loaded to the gills.
looks like the manufacturer is saying the reel is most useful for when a fish is missed not confidence inspiring for the gun haha.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

That ermes gun is loaded to the gills.
looks like the manufacturer is saying the reel is most useful for when a fish is missed not confidence inspiring for the gun haha.

That was a strange statement by the manufacturer. A missed shot will pull very little line off the reel. But when you hit a fish and it takes almost all the line off the reel that the level wind feature might be useful and you are probably going to be back in the boat when you wind the line back on. I seldom wind line back onto the reel while in the water, and it's the same with my dive buddies. If we do wind line back on in the water, then it's probably too loose and unevenly wound, and might dig in and jam when we shoot another fish. So after we get back in the boat and deal with the fish, we will often pull all the line off, or at least as much line as the fish pulled off, and then carefully rewind it tight and even. If the boat is moving, that makes it even easier to wind the line tight.

Of course I'm talking about diving from my boat. If you have to swim through the surf, particularly if it's rocky, then you probably don't want a lot of loose line around so you will prefer to rewind it in the water. But then you'll probably want to rewind it tight and even before shooting another fish.

 

[GRAPHITE SPEARGUNS]

That was a strange statement by the manufacturer. A missed shot will pull very little line off the reel. But when you hit a fish and it takes almost all the line off the reel that the level wind feature might be useful and you are probably going to be back in the boat when you wind the line back on. I seldom wind line back onto the reel while in the water, and it's the same with my dive buddies. If we do wind line back on in the water, then it's probably too loose and unevenly wound, and might dig in and jam when we shoot another fish. So after we get back in the boat and deal with the fish, we will often pull all the line off, or at least as much line as the fish pulled off, and then carefully rewind it tight and even. If the boat is moving, that makes it even easier to wind the line tight.

Of course I'm talking about diving from my boat. If you have to swim through the surf, particularly if it's rocky, then you probably don't want a lot of loose line around so you will prefer to rewind it in the water. But then you'll probably want to rewind it tight and even before shooting another fish.

it looks like ermes is also saying that there is no need to hold an tension on the line when winding back in, i wonder if there is a tension system that allows the line to be tightly wound back on if not i can see potential problems with jam from digging in. i guess if you have your reel on free spool it does not matter as much but i would hate to lose a expensive gun from this.