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Speargun rigging?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Abriapnea

New Member
Jan 16, 2002
678
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Iya , I was on the beach the day Jimmy Uys brought his marlin in . As I recall he used a railless Ra of around 130 cm . with a single 20 mm. band . Not a particularly big gun . He stoned the marlin with a brain shot at pretty much max range .
I have speared with Brad Nielsson , the current record holder after he got his fish and believe he speared it with a 135cm rail with twin 16 's (hell ,now that I think about it , could have been a single 20 ):duh
What I am trying to say is both guys were basically rigged for mackerel and by no means using top- end euro guns .
My second marlin (though by no means in that size class ) was speared with a 145 railgun with two 16 mm. bands and a 7 mm. spear . At full range the spear traversed from behind one peck and easily exited just behind the opposing gillplate .
I honestly believe a properly set up railgun has what it takes to land any size fish ...;)
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
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Gee Wizzzz Shane, 20 min ride to that Gilbartar straight.......U R lucky !!!! :p :p :p

Are u allowed to sell ur catch by fishing or by spearfishing ? If so, hit one blue, sell to Japan and u can buy all the guns u like.............sending me a plane ticket ? ...Woahhhh.....thanks, thanks...I am honoured:t



ABRI,

I do agree with you that a rail guns given a good shot should be able to handle any kind of fish. Come to think about it, 7mm Hawaiian shaft is only 2.5mm smaller than say a Kitto, Riffe or Alexander Slip tip. If penetration is guaranteed on fatal zone, I am sure that fish is dead, extra bigger diameter of 2.5mm will not make a difference, it is not the hole size we look for, it is where it enter which count. In fact Hawaiian shaft penetrate so easy, I love it too.

But the test I did with lighter 7mm shaft with 5 bands on my MT Zero gave me a hint that this light shaft ( mine is only 34" ) seems to stop going any faster ( I mean more penetration ) after 4 bands and more. Somehow the shaft speed might have match the speed of the rubber shringking back, this is the maximum speed any shaft can attain. When I use the 3/8 ( 9.5mm ) 36" shaft, the energy level is plain crazy. Based on the calculation that the source of power remain the same, the 5 bands, a thin shaft can not fully utilized the maximum power generated by the rubbers, if the rubbers are as many as mine. If I may roughly detail an example is that : at 7mm, it feel like I punch somebody, at 9.5mm shaft it felt like that somebody get punched by Mike Tyson. I have not yet done test on say 140cm shaft to the extend I did with my Metal Tech ZERO, some figures may change.


I think in order to maintain efficient penetration of 7mm shaft for big fish, you need longer shaft so that the mass is higher. I think a 160cm RA can be very deadly. Slip tip even tri cut can not penetrate as easy as 7mm Tri Cut Hawaiian shaft, smaller enter easier.

Since a perfect shot ( stoned ) is what we all wish but perhaps not 50% of the case, thicker shaft ( given good power ) allows room for more error cause it punch harder and can travel further.

The next question will be.......how much force can the pin and the flopper on Hawaiian shaft can handle before it get straightened ?? I have straigtened a Scubapro spearhead on a mere 15 kg coral trout. If a shot is not fatal and the float generate drag of higher value than the strength of that pin+flopper ( let's assume the gill can handle the pressure of the flopper ), it might break the flopper or pin. This is where Slip Tip shines. Slip tip typical cable is 500 lbs, u load up any Hawaiian flopper, before it hit 300 lbs, I am sure it will get straigtened, even the best one....I am guessing. In real use, I doubt common float/s has the capacity of 500 lbs even multiple ones. Next item to observe is how fast the fish can accelerate and maintain speed. If a tuna can do 70 KM/H, it is = 38 knots. Try to tow (fully submerged ) a spearshaft at that speed behind a fast boat, I am sure it generate a LOT of drag. I have a Riffe Ice Pick that was damaged not by hitting a rock but just being embeded in the fish and not fully penetrating it, thus the adaptor kind of jacked the Ice Pick base because of the fish was speeding. It was totaly the hydrodynamic resistance of the water towards the shaft at such burst speed that wrecked that Ice Pick.

Next advantage of the slip tip is that it is longer than any Hawaiian flopper when in the works. More surface area means less pressure per CM2 of flesh. Also to note that most Hawaiian flopper do not open 90 degrees, it technicaly provide less surface to grab the flesh for loading.

If the subject is a precious fish, I guess any spearo should use the best set up for the intended target because simply it allows more room for error. We wish we stoned all the fish but once the float get into action, I would want a slip tip than any Hawaiian.
As a scuba hunter I get to test spearhead holding power more than most freediver cause I do not have float and I do not use a reel. I jam my gun on wrecks sometime so that I do not get drag by the fish. Towing a scuba dude is sure heavier than towing a freediver ( without float ) . A float is sure a dream come true cause it tires the fish, not because it acts like an anchor. Like fishing, I use 30 lbs line on 30 kg Tuna. I set the drag on my reel at only 10 lbs, in less than 15 minutes I can land the tuna. Since fish get stuck on the mouth, its most forward part, I have the leverage to indirectly steer the fish. We use the boat and our reel to tire the fish.

I am sure any gun that can guarantee complete penetration for the intended species and size, may it be RA, Omer or Riffe or anything else, is good enough..it is not the brand, we look for the penetration. I recall those days I used to fillet 50kg Yellowfin Tuna, their spinal bones are quite thick. A 150kg ones, you can imagine, perhaps 5 cm diameter or more.

If a 3/8" (9.5mm ) shaft hit a big fish at that bone, it sure stand a better chance breaking the bone than a 7mm hawaiian shaft cause it has more mass and punch.

I mean why make the hunt more difficult if there are tools out there which can be more forgiving ?

It is also not ethical to shoot a fish and get a tear off and it dies somewhere else.

If a chance to pull a trigger on a 150Kg+ Blue Fin, don't we want to be armed with a gun with more punch at long range , a good slip tip and so on ? And of course a bad shot is a bad shot, no matter what gun we use and what kind of spearhead holding the flesh. He he he he.

This is the wrecked Ice Pick. Not on tuna but on a big trevaly which accelerated away. Water drag did this.
 

Abriapnea

New Member
Jan 16, 2002
678
43
0
58
Yep ,a heavier spear will significantly improve your odds , especially if you hit the backbone .
With a 7mm. you have to place your shot carefully . My buddies used to bend 5-7 spears per year , compared to my one and lose a lot more fish simply because they take the first available shot rather than working a bit harder at angling the shot back to front and downwards .
BTW what do you think about my liftbag stringer idea for scuba spearing . :confused:
 

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
72
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The idea sound good Abri but on one side of the rock it might be slammed when surfaced. Unless I have two boats, one a rubber boat standing by, it will be possible. Keep the line from the stringer to the float as short as possible to prevent tangle.
I been dragged once or twice from deco depth by using those diving surface marker where the thin 7 meter line keep tangling in current. We scuba dudes fear embolism more than anything else.
Ruber boat has the size and agility to play in swell close to the rocks, our 53 footer is just too big and risky.

We always dive with a captain and at least one crew on the boat. In some places, there is no way we can swim back to the boat either on scuba or freedive.

Will use that liftback stringer in non rock slamming area. Must be a type where it has safety dump valve and an air valve so that the air remain in it after it jumped out of the water in to the air speeding from depth. The regular open botttom surface dive marker can't be used. I think Riffe has such a float as u described and it has CO2 inflation or oral inflation. Thanks Bro.
 
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