Wednesday, December 19, 2018
  • Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 40,000+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 496,000+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,300+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

Steps for hands-free equalization (partial BTV) that worked for me

Hasan sünear

Active Member
Jul 10, 2017
37
27
33
31
Turkey
#21
Please check out Adam's Stern latest YouTube video about BTV. It helped me a great deal and thanks to his explanation I feel that I am breaking true the final barrier to make hands free equalization work for me on every dive.
By the way I am not naturally gifted to eq hands free, I learned true dedicated practice over the last year.


Sent from the abyss
İs the feeling same with the frenzel? I cannot realize if ı had hands free , intrain in a 3 m depth pool so if it feels same with frenzel i can realize the eq but i dont know how it feels like???
 

Kodama

Active Member
Jun 20, 2016
265
86
43
Belgium - California
www.eastwind.be
#22
İs the feeling same with the frenzel? I cannot realize if ı had hands free , intrain in a 3 m depth pool so if it feels same with frenzel i can realize the eq but i dont know how it feels like???
No it feels different from Frenzel. With BTV you manipulate the muscles to open the E tube voluntarily so it is very gentle with Frenzel you still use pressure, build up with the tongue, to force the Etube to open.


Sent from the abyss
 
Likes: Hasan sünear

Hasan sünear

Active Member
Jul 10, 2017
37
27
33
31
Turkey
#23
No it feels different from Frenzel. With BTV you manipulate the muscles to open the E tube voluntarily so it is very gentle with Frenzel you still use pressure, build up with the tongue, to force the Etube to open.


Sent from the abyss
I have to work on it , yesterday i tried it but i am not successful at it. When i equalize with frenzel i hear a loud voice (or something like that ) but while i am trying handsfree eq i dont feel anything. İt means i am not even close to have it i think :))
 
May 13, 2017
32
6
23
32
Singapore
#24
OP thanks for posting your experience.

Not to muddy the waters but I noticed a couple points that are not entirely correct...

Back pressure from the mask is definitely not neccessary for handsfree although for some people it does seem to be. It can be done with no mask or noseclip but we cannot rule out backpressure from the water itself.

If you combine the voluntary control to open the etubes with the throat and jaw work of a Frenzel it can be more effective when approaching residual volume, and past that point it is possible to use mouthfil and handsfree together, although it may be difficult to maintain throat lock while opening the etubes (something all natural handsfree divers seem to struggle with).

On the 72M CNF video on my youtube channel I was doing handsfree all the way to the plate.

And as the OP described, relaxation and rhythm are very important... when diving on my own rhythm, even if diving very, very aggressively I can do thousands of drops and never touch my nose but frequently when teaching (and going off my students' rhythm) my ears get sticky and I have to Frenzel, particularly when we are shallow and they are stressed.


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Hey Lance! When you mentioned throat lock, do you mean a closed glottis? I like your point about the potential difficulty of maintaining a throat lock while opening the etubes, because I do seem to have trouble with keeping my glottis shut and potentially it's because the equalization technique interferes somewhat with it.

May I know if you teach in a dive school? I am always looking out for instructors who can hands free.

I also recently wrote a post on hands free equalization. I was wondering if you could take a look at it and let me know what you think?

https://therapystop.wordpress.com/hands-free-equalization-for-the-beginner-and-the-curious/

Thanks!
 
Mar 20, 2011
696
142
83
Los Angeles
#25
Hey Lance! When you mentioned throat lock, do you mean a closed glottis? I like your point about the potential difficulty of maintaining a throat lock while opening the etubes, because I do seem to have trouble with keeping my glottis shut and potentially it's because the equalization technique interferes somewhat with it.

May I know if you teach in a dive school? I am always looking out for instructors who can hands free.

I also recently wrote a post on hands free equalization. I was wondering if you could take a look at it and let me know what you think?

https://therapystop.wordpress.com/hands-free-equalization-for-the-beginner-and-the-curious/

Thanks!
Yes, throat lock = closed glottis. The balloon exercises were helpful for me in learning this.

Yes, I teach in Los Angeles as socalspearit.com and I certify divers through PFI, up to 40M.

I will look at the article.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
Likes: ishuyi
May 13, 2017
32
6
23
32
Singapore
#26
Yes, throat lock = closed glottis. The balloon exercises were helpful for me in learning this.

Yes, I teach in Los Angeles as socalspearit.com and I certify divers through PFI, up to 40M.

I will look at the article.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Thanks very much, Lance! Do you mind sharing with me what balloon exercises helped you train the throat lock? Thank you!
 

tom_m

New Member
Jul 19, 2018
5
0
1
30
Czech Republic
#27
Hey everyone, there are already other threads on btv/vto so I hope you don't mind that I continue in this instead of creating a new one.

A few weeks back I've heard about the hands free equalisation and I began to train it. I use exercises from Adam Stern's video an to the btv french document I found here on the forum somewhere. And I got from the point of not hearing a thing when I try to equalise without hands to hearing a gentle click (sometimes more than one). The thing is that no matter what I try I don't hear the 'loud breathing through my ears' sound that most people describe. Did someone get stuck on the same step? How did you manage to progress and open the e-tubes fully? I'm not even sure if I'm on the right track because there is no exact deception of what should one expect to hear/feel. I'm determined to learn it so I'd be really grateful for any hints and suggestions. Thanks!
Tom

PS. sorry for my English it's not my first language :)
 
Mar 20, 2011
696
142
83
Los Angeles
#28
The click is a momentary opening, the 'loud breathing' (I would describe it as a sort of wind noise myself?) would be if you were holding the tube open. On shallower dives I just need to click to EQ.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 

Kodama

Active Member
Jun 20, 2016
265
86
43
Belgium - California
www.eastwind.be
#29
The click is a momentary opening, the 'loud breathing' (I would describe it as a sort of wind noise myself?) would be if you were holding the tube open. On shallower dives I just need to click to EQ.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Exactly!

To train to keep them open constantly you can produce a continuous Mmmmmm... sound. While doing that try to reproduce a momentary opening.
When you open the tubes the sound will drastically change.
It will give you a clear indication of when the tubes are open or closed.
After practicing often you will slowly be able to keep them open longer and learn to feel the sensation which make you open your tubes. Once mastered on land submerge and continue your practice. This time without the Mmm sound.

The key is to develop awareness and this only comes true practice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

tom_m

New Member
Jul 19, 2018
5
0
1
30
Czech Republic
#30
That's reassuring, thanks but what do I need to do to keep it open? It seems to me that I've tried everything.. when I it my head below water I can't even do the click..
 

tom_m

New Member
Jul 19, 2018
5
0
1
30
Czech Republic
#32
Hmm ok, and what should I practice at this point? Should I keep doing those things from the btv document and the YouTube video from Adam Stern? Or should I just repeatedly be doing those clicking sounds until the e-tubes open fully? :)

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
 

podenco

Active Member
Apr 23, 2012
15
4
43
Spain
#33
Hello Tom, I will explain how I do if it is useful for you, :

-1. To equalize or doing the click sound try to push your tongue back and down, it should open your e-tubes to the max, at least it does to me. This movement at the same time closes the the airway that goes from the mouth to the nose, so you can not maintain it the whole descend because it would not be possible sending air to your mask, sinuses and ears. You can do as many times as you need while you descend to clear your ears, much better if you do just before the 1 m, to avoid the built up of negative pressure. This method is very gentle, so is not necessary to push the tongue very strongly, you will do it without realizing.

-2. To check if your e-tubes open try to make the same movement as described before (push your tongue back and down), but very gentle, in a way that is possible at the same time blowing air through your nose, you should hear the air passing through your ears. This movement should be enough to equalize under water, but since the pressure is very strong, sometimes it would be necessary to apply more pressure with your tongue to open more the e-tubes, as described in the point 1.

-3. When performing the equalization try to maintain the head straight, not turned to the left or to the right, since this movements can close the e-tubes.

-4. Also is useful to sniff, or to swallow since this movements can help to remove some mucus that could obstruct the e-tubes. So when you prepare to go down you can perform some swallowing, and if you notice that you have an obstruction try to sniff.

Good luck!
 
Likes: tom_m

tom_m

New Member
Jul 19, 2018
5
0
1
30
Czech Republic
#34
Wow thanks! That was super helpful! Now I'm able to hear my breath. I even feel when my e-tubes tubes open.

If someone reading this thread in the future is interested, the movement that opens my e-tubes is:
1) raise middle part of my soft palate. (as described in Adam Stern's video) When doing this correctly it produces a gentle click in my ears.
2) push rear of my tongue back and down and tense some throat muscles. My Adam's apple moves very low. (I had to figure this one by just tensing various muscles in my throat and slightly moving my jaw until I finally felt the tubes open). It almost feels like I'm moving my jaw away from my ears but it doesn't have to move at all it's just muscle tension.

At first it took me a lot of effort to open the tubes. It felt like I'm tensing all the muscles in my neck to do it, but after a short practice I'm getting better at this and it feels much easier. (still far from easy though)

I've tried to do the equalisation in water today but as soon as my ears go under water it just stops working. I guess I just need to practice more before actually going to water to test it.

Thanks guys!
Tom

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
 

podenco

Active Member
Apr 23, 2012
15
4
43
Spain
#35
I am glad that you managed to open the e-tubes and to feel your breathing, this means that you can open them. Now, just train in the water, without pushing, as I said before this equalization method is very gentle, just moving the rear of your tongue should be enough. Anyway, probably there are other ways, my oncle, the worst spearo that I have ever seen, can equalize easily just giggling his ears.
Good luck!
 

tom_m

New Member
Jul 19, 2018
5
0
1
30
Czech Republic
#36
Hehe, thanks. I think I have overtrained it a bit, now all the muscles in my head hurt and I can't open the tubes anymore :) I'll continue tomorrow. Thanks for everything and I'll let you know when I manage to equalise for the first time (if I do). Wish me luck :)

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
 

podenco

Active Member
Apr 23, 2012
15
4
43
Spain
#37
Probably you inflammed a bit the e-tubes or the surronding structures, I would rest a couple of days and once you are ok I would try the movement that I described in the "paragraph 2" of my first message. The last thing that you want is to injure yourself. Advice us when you finally master this method underwater.
Luck and take care!!
 
Likes: tom_m
May 13, 2017
32
6
23
32
Singapore
#38
In case this helps anyone, I realised recently that the hands free technique that I use has an official name to it - Mendelsohn Manouever. And it is used to help people who have lost their ability to swallow, for example following a stroke, so it's quite a well-known technique in the medical field.


It's like the beginning part of a swallow.
 
Likes: SubSub
Mar 20, 2011
696
142
83
Los Angeles
#39
Thanks very much, Lance! Do you mind sharing with me what balloon exercises helped you train the throat lock? Thank you!
The balloon exercise consists of allowing an inflated balloon placed in your mouth to deflate through your nose with none of the air entering your lungs. Reverse packing first and using a larger balloon will make it more difficult. To EQ handsfree successfully past RV you need to be able to also hold the etubes open while doing the balloon exercise and possibly Frenzeling as well.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
Likes: Kodama
Mar 20, 2011
696
142
83
Los Angeles
#40
In case this helps anyone, I realised recently that the hands free technique that I use has an official name to it - Mendelsohn Manouever. And it is used to help people who have lost their ability to swallow, for example following a stroke, so it's quite a well-known technique in the medical field.


It's like the beginning part of a swallow.
Do you do this Mendelsohn manuver in order to hands free? I just watched the video and can do the manuver but the manuver alone does nothing to my etubes. In your case, do you feel like the manipulation in the Mendelsohn is coupled to your etubes?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk