İs the feeling same with the frenzel? I cannot realize if ı had hands free , intrain in a 3 m depth pool so if it feels same with frenzel i can realize the eq but i dont know how it feels like???
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Steps for hands-free equalization (partial BTV) that worked for me
- Thread starterSantiago
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Thread Status: Hello
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No it feels different from Frenzel. With BTV you manipulate the muscles to open the E tube voluntarily so it is very gentle with Frenzel you still use pressure, build up with the tongue, to force the Etube to open.
Sent from the abyss
I have to work on it , yesterday i tried it but i am not successful at it. When i equalize with frenzel i hear a loud voice (or something like that ) but while i am trying handsfree eq i dont feel anything. İt means i am not even close to have it i think
)
Hey Lance! When you mentioned throat lock, do you mean a closed glottis? I like your point about the potential difficulty of maintaining a throat lock while opening the etubes, because I do seem to have trouble with keeping my glottis shut and potentially it's because the equalization technique interferes somewhat with it.
May I know if you teach in a dive school? I am always looking out for instructors who can hands free.
I also recently wrote a post on hands free equalization. I was wondering if you could take a look at it and let me know what you think?
https://therapystop.wordpress.com/hands-free-equalization-for-the-beginner-and-the-curious/
Thanks!
Yes, throat lock = closed glottis. The balloon exercises were helpful for me in learning this.
Yes, I teach in Los Angeles as socalspearit.com and I certify divers through PFI, up to 40M.
I will look at the article.
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Thanks very much, Lance! Do you mind sharing with me what balloon exercises helped you train the throat lock? Thank you!
Hey everyone, there are already other threads on btv/vto so I hope you don't mind that I continue in this instead of creating a new one.
A few weeks back I've heard about the hands free equalisation and I began to train it. I use exercises from Adam Stern's video an to the btv french document I found here on the forum somewhere. And I got from the point of not hearing a thing when I try to equalise without hands to hearing a gentle click (sometimes more than one). The thing is that no matter what I try I don't hear the 'loud breathing through my ears' sound that most people describe. Did someone get stuck on the same step? How did you manage to progress and open the e-tubes fully? I'm not even sure if I'm on the right track because there is no exact deception of what should one expect to hear/feel. I'm determined to learn it so I'd be really grateful for any hints and suggestions. Thanks!
Tom
PS. sorry for my English it's not my first language
A few weeks back I've heard about the hands free equalisation and I began to train it. I use exercises from Adam Stern's video an to the btv french document I found here on the forum somewhere. And I got from the point of not hearing a thing when I try to equalise without hands to hearing a gentle click (sometimes more than one). The thing is that no matter what I try I don't hear the 'loud breathing through my ears' sound that most people describe. Did someone get stuck on the same step? How did you manage to progress and open the e-tubes fully? I'm not even sure if I'm on the right track because there is no exact deception of what should one expect to hear/feel. I'm determined to learn it so I'd be really grateful for any hints and suggestions. Thanks!
Tom
PS. sorry for my English it's not my first language
The click is a momentary opening, the 'loud breathing' (I would describe it as a sort of wind noise myself?) would be if you were holding the tube open. On shallower dives I just need to click to EQ.
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Exactly!
To train to keep them open constantly you can produce a continuous Mmmmmm... sound. While doing that try to reproduce a momentary opening.
When you open the tubes the sound will drastically change.
It will give you a clear indication of when the tubes are open or closed.
After practicing often you will slowly be able to keep them open longer and learn to feel the sensation which make you open your tubes. Once mastered on land submerge and continue your practice. This time without the Mmm sound.
The key is to develop awareness and this only comes true practice.
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The key is to develop awareness and this only comes true practice.
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Hmm ok, and what should I practice at this point? Should I keep doing those things from the btv document and the YouTube video from Adam Stern? Or should I just repeatedly be doing those clicking sounds until the e-tubes open fully?
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Hello Tom, I will explain how I do if it is useful for you, :
-1. To equalize or doing the click sound try to push your tongue back and down, it should open your e-tubes to the max, at least it does to me. This movement at the same time closes the the airway that goes from the mouth to the nose, so you can not maintain it the whole descend because it would not be possible sending air to your mask, sinuses and ears. You can do as many times as you need while you descend to clear your ears, much better if you do just before the 1 m, to avoid the built up of negative pressure. This method is very gentle, so is not necessary to push the tongue very strongly, you will do it without realizing.
-2. To check if your e-tubes open try to make the same movement as described before (push your tongue back and down), but very gentle, in a way that is possible at the same time blowing air through your nose, you should hear the air passing through your ears. This movement should be enough to equalize under water, but since the pressure is very strong, sometimes it would be necessary to apply more pressure with your tongue to open more the e-tubes, as described in the point 1.
-3. When performing the equalization try to maintain the head straight, not turned to the left or to the right, since this movements can close the e-tubes.
-4. Also is useful to sniff, or to swallow since this movements can help to remove some mucus that could obstruct the e-tubes. So when you prepare to go down you can perform some swallowing, and if you notice that you have an obstruction try to sniff.
Good luck!
-1. To equalize or doing the click sound try to push your tongue back and down, it should open your e-tubes to the max, at least it does to me. This movement at the same time closes the the airway that goes from the mouth to the nose, so you can not maintain it the whole descend because it would not be possible sending air to your mask, sinuses and ears. You can do as many times as you need while you descend to clear your ears, much better if you do just before the 1 m, to avoid the built up of negative pressure. This method is very gentle, so is not necessary to push the tongue very strongly, you will do it without realizing.
-2. To check if your e-tubes open try to make the same movement as described before (push your tongue back and down), but very gentle, in a way that is possible at the same time blowing air through your nose, you should hear the air passing through your ears. This movement should be enough to equalize under water, but since the pressure is very strong, sometimes it would be necessary to apply more pressure with your tongue to open more the e-tubes, as described in the point 1.
-3. When performing the equalization try to maintain the head straight, not turned to the left or to the right, since this movements can close the e-tubes.
-4. Also is useful to sniff, or to swallow since this movements can help to remove some mucus that could obstruct the e-tubes. So when you prepare to go down you can perform some swallowing, and if you notice that you have an obstruction try to sniff.
Good luck!
Wow thanks! That was super helpful! Now I'm able to hear my breath. I even feel when my e-tubes tubes open.
If someone reading this thread in the future is interested, the movement that opens my e-tubes is:
1) raise middle part of my soft palate. (as described in Adam Stern's video) When doing this correctly it produces a gentle click in my ears.
2) push rear of my tongue back and down and tense some throat muscles. My Adam's apple moves very low. (I had to figure this one by just tensing various muscles in my throat and slightly moving my jaw until I finally felt the tubes open). It almost feels like I'm moving my jaw away from my ears but it doesn't have to move at all it's just muscle tension.
At first it took me a lot of effort to open the tubes. It felt like I'm tensing all the muscles in my neck to do it, but after a short practice I'm getting better at this and it feels much easier. (still far from easy though)
I've tried to do the equalisation in water today but as soon as my ears go under water it just stops working. I guess I just need to practice more before actually going to water to test it.
Thanks guys!
Tom
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If someone reading this thread in the future is interested, the movement that opens my e-tubes is:
1) raise middle part of my soft palate. (as described in Adam Stern's video) When doing this correctly it produces a gentle click in my ears.
2) push rear of my tongue back and down and tense some throat muscles. My Adam's apple moves very low. (I had to figure this one by just tensing various muscles in my throat and slightly moving my jaw until I finally felt the tubes open). It almost feels like I'm moving my jaw away from my ears but it doesn't have to move at all it's just muscle tension.
At first it took me a lot of effort to open the tubes. It felt like I'm tensing all the muscles in my neck to do it, but after a short practice I'm getting better at this and it feels much easier. (still far from easy though)
I've tried to do the equalisation in water today but as soon as my ears go under water it just stops working. I guess I just need to practice more before actually going to water to test it.
Thanks guys!
Tom
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I am glad that you managed to open the e-tubes and to feel your breathing, this means that you can open them. Now, just train in the water, without pushing, as I said before this equalization method is very gentle, just moving the rear of your tongue should be enough. Anyway, probably there are other ways, my oncle, the worst spearo that I have ever seen, can equalize easily just giggling his ears.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Hehe, thanks. I think I have overtrained it a bit, now all the muscles in my head hurt and I can't open the tubes anymore I'll continue tomorrow. Thanks for everything and I'll let you know when I manage to equalise for the first time (if I do). Wish me luck
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I'll continue tomorrow. Thanks for everything and I'll let you know when I manage to equalise for the first time (if I do). Wish me luck Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
Probably you inflammed a bit the e-tubes or the surronding structures, I would rest a couple of days and once you are ok I would try the movement that I described in the "paragraph 2" of my first message. The last thing that you want is to injure yourself. Advice us when you finally master this method underwater.
Luck and take care!!
Luck and take care!!
In case this helps anyone, I realised recently that the hands free technique that I use has an official name to it - Mendelsohn Manouever. And it is used to help people who have lost their ability to swallow, for example following a stroke, so it's quite a well-known technique in the medical field.
It's like the beginning part of a swallow.
It's like the beginning part of a swallow.
The balloon exercise consists of allowing an inflated balloon placed in your mouth to deflate through your nose with none of the air entering your lungs. Reverse packing first and using a larger balloon will make it more difficult. To EQ handsfree successfully past RV you need to be able to also hold the etubes open while doing the balloon exercise and possibly Frenzeling as well.
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Do you do this Mendelsohn manuver in order to hands free? I just watched the video and can do the manuver but the manuver alone does nothing to my etubes. In your case, do you feel like the manipulation in the Mendelsohn is coupled to your etubes?
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