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Yes, Ivo, in other words: if you can not beat the system, join the system.... (sarcasm!).
But seriously: taking some position in AIDA international is not a way to solve the problem of transparency, isn't it?
Miha
instead of that you decide to harass all AIDA board, very niceI simply see no point in harassing them permanently with questions what's going on in the Assembly
I can't tell what your second sentence means, maybe you could add a little explanation in brackets to all your sentences.
Multiply yourself by 1000, and try to imagine what happens if everybody is trying to influence the others!there is no reason why I could not try actively influencing it as an ordinary member.
Why, oh why? If you permit filtering, you do not need any information at all - you will get only what is convenient to the messenger. It will require additional time and effort. It won't permit any control, and won't guarantee any accountability. It simply violates the very principle of democracy.... AIDA falls in between, and frankly I think I'd rather have a layer that filters all the discussions.
The result ïs called "democracy", Andrea. The opposite, with a small group deciding about a bigger one with no control and no accountability, can be called for example totality, monarchy, private enterprise, and I could use many more terms, but prefer avoiding those which would be inflammatory.Multiply yourself by 1000, and try to imagine what happens if everybody is trying to influence the others!
I'll conter: do you think that every dialogue between AIDA officials runs through the mailing-list? Of course not! For me the Assembly list is the perfect analogy to Parliament.I don't really think that parliaments are a good analogy for AIDA. Do you really think that every exchanges between parliament members are public ? of course not ! Only what is being said and done during sessions is publicly accessible.
Sorry, Fabrice, but your ideas about democracy seem to be rather strange. Consensus is not sothing that is stuffed into your throat against your will, while announcing it was decided a few months ago without letting you any chance to voice your opinion. And what's wrong about flamewars? When decisions are being taken, arguments need to be discussed. Members need to know what is being decided before it is decided, so that they can express their opinions and direct their representatives how to represent them, and also to have the possibility to monitor whether they really do, and vote for somebody else the next time, if they do not like the way it was done.Maybe be able to read all messages older than N months could be an alternative ? This would allow people to voice their opinion without risking an immediate flamewar, and progress towards a consensus (or not).
Ah, no? So, according to you transparency is letting the leaders decide what they tell you and when? On my mind, that has nothing to do with transparency, that's the way how it works in secrete agencies, in private corporations, and in totalitarian regimes.Transparency and accountability doesn't mean that you should be able to chime in whenever you want.
From what I saw and heard, I can tell that the meetings are usually empty, and most frequently you have no choice between several candidates. People are usually thankful if someone takes the position at all. And that's also the problem. Those people are not necessarily extremely motivated, nor experienced, and it can also happen that only few members know them. So they get elected, and then they can agree with any messy proposal on the Assembly. And as long as others have no idea what is going on, there is also no way to prevent it, or to detect that the representative is perhaps worse than having nothing at all. Please note that I do not speak about any specific person or nation - I speak only about the principles of the system as we have it today.I'll be interested to know how many members do actually care to vote to choose their AIDA rep at their national elections before complaining, and how many volunteers there are to actually do the job - not just behind their keyboard.
Exactly! And that's why we should not spoil the fun by some stupid power games, and abuse of power. And from what I have heard on this thread, that was the exact reason why the old Board was dissolved by the Assembly, and why we have new elections now. So let's not repeat the same mistake, and better enforce democratic principles limiting the possibility to slip to totalitarian behaviour, and abuse of power.Oh, and be careful, you're near a godwin point. AIDA is not something that serious, it's just about a sport or a leisure activity...
AIDA is recognized by it's members and it is AIDA freedivers working for AIDA freediving.
Nice to hear, Bill, that in fact everything is open and perfectly transparent. And hope that this your opinion will be taken in view, and that the read access to the Assembly list will be allowed to anyone. I'd appreciate much more a completely public access to the list archive, without the necessity to ask anyone, and without the necessity to receive all the email. What harm do you expect from discussing things publicly? Are you afraid that the CMAS or F.R.E.E. would take us over? And why all your emails, and posts on the AIDA forum are equipped with the confidential note that disclosing any of the information will be prosecuted by law (or something in that way)? That does not make it feel the information is quite open.There is no secrets here, but the communication and information is for AIDA members only - exactly like it should be.
Well, I'd prefer discussing it there too, but there are so little people there, that it is useless. If the Assembly discussed there, and if all sections were at least readable for all, there would be more reasons to come there. But today, every single section is behind locks, new members do not get any access right without asking the administrator (and do not even know there may be some hidden sections), and there is no information coming from the officials anyway, so why would anyone bother coming there?ps. then, I see no good reason to sponsor such a commercial site like this with discussions that should be on a forum that belonging to AIDA - and could give AIDA paid banners etc.
If there is problems inside of your National AIDA or there are things that is not working as they should (!!!) ...please send this info to the AIDA Executive Board directly and also make sure to send as much info about the situation as possible. AIDA Executive Board is the one to fix this kind of problems.. and this has happen before.
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