Stormy days at AIDA?

[jome]

Like I wrote to the assembly already, I don't like to make accusations of misuse based on rumours and if the result just doesn't happen to be to my liking. In a democracy, votes sometimes go the other way you'd like and that is the whole point.

Meaning, I don't actually believe the vote was manipulated and making such accusations or drawing comparisons to some of the gravest examples from humanity's history is kind of in bad taste.

But what is troubling is that it COULD have, very easily. And not only manipulated, but just mails getting lost is an everyday business in the internets.

I have no personal grudges or finger pointing to do, but the PROCESS of our voting is obviously not up to snuff if it leaves such large room for speculation and rumours. It's worked ok so far because the issues we've dealt with haven't been heated enough to truly test the credibility.

Now we had (it seems) a very heated vote - and I'm disgusted to hear it has become a little too heated (if someone thinks freediving is about death threats then I think they seriously need to reconsider their motivation for freediving - and that's the least of their problems).

So for the future we obviously need "something else".

If there is a revote, I think the votes this time should go directly to the scrutineers and there is a "grace period" of 1-2 days to check and verify that each vote really did come through (ie they send a mail to any country that did not vote that "did you sent a vote" and if they did and it was not received, then they re-check it somehow).

I also wrote to the assembly that AIDA needs a separate "IT-section" - call it group, comission, branch...But a group of people looking after the IT asset of AIDA.

They would look after such things as:
-The website
-Different Web services
-Voting service
-Mailing lists / forums

They would be a group of experts that will investigate the feasibility of these areas, create a suggestion to the board and then execute the plan if board accepts.

For example - the EC signals that "we need an online student certifying process with automatic card printing integration because certifications are currently done manually on incomplete data and cause a lot of overhead".
The IT group considers this:
-Do we reject the idea
-Do we make it our selves
-Do we use an open source alternative
-Do we comission it from outside sources

It then formulates a suggestion to the board "we think it's smartest to comission this from a software company, we have made some queries and it can be done for about 5000e".

Then they see that it is done.

Obviously this groups first task would be to investigate and implement a robust on-line voting system.

I can see at least 3 qualified candidates on this discussion already The best part of this role would be that it would not be at all political, but purely technical - to be the experts opinion to help the "politically minded" make good decisions and give them proper tools to do their work.

 

[Jouskari]

Unfortunately in this period some arsehole has been sending Bill Stromberg threatening emails including death threats, which is completely disgusting, only a bottom feeding scumbag coward would lower themselves to this level. This has been the straw that has broken the camel's back and Bill has resigned.

It's been a hectic couple of days...

Cheers,
Ben

What a mess, well real change never comes for free. Hope this all really boosts the activity of the assembly.

It´s really hard to imagine who would go about sending deaththreats. Not really a constructive way to go about things... Geez

 

[flying_spanner]

What a mess, well real change never comes for free. Hope this all really boosts the activity of the assembly.

It´s really hard to imagine who would go about sending deaththreats. Not really a constructive way to go about things... Geez

Having spent a fair bit of time as a rep on Tradesman Unions, Student unions etc I'd like to offer a bit of support for Bill S, Trux, and the countless other names who are trying to "ride out the storm"

A public service job such as AIDA is a truly thankless position, it doesn't seem to matter how things are done. Someone will find something to complain about.

Granted there are issues that need to be sorted I think everyone agrees on that. Just remember if things aren't sorted in a democratic and civil matter, then what's the point?

 

[trux]

This is really unexpected, unfortunate, and tasteless outcome, but I agree with Benny and Jome that much of the mess could have been likely avoided if the voting system were transparent. Did Bill send a copy of the threatening emails to the Assembly?

 

[osusim]

Temporary voting system can be done easily with a help of AIDA forum. Only representatives can vote, other AIDA members can watch only. Any mistakes or manipulations will be visible. Results will be documented as well. I guess this is transparent enough for the moment.
I think also that tracing of an author of threatening letters technically is not a big deal. ISP from which mails were send must be informed and ask for collaboration for investigation (better with a official request by police).

 

[trux]

Well, first of all we (better told the Assembly) should get the threatening emails for review. Perhaps they are not anonymous at all, and no tracing or investigation is necessary. And perhpas it is not so hot with the death threats either. As Jome wrote, in such heated moments emotions are high, and people easily tend to desinterprete or exagerate - it is needed that the content is reviewed by cooler heads in the Assembly.

 

[pim]

Igor; results of votes should only be visible AFTER the vote is closed; during the process of voting it should not be seen as this could influence how people vote what is a bad thing, people should have room to freely vote. So an online system should be made but that is easy for a 12 year old to make, a simple webpage hosted on other servers then those used by AIDA and in control of people not involved or related...mailing can be done automacticly by the website to the scruteneers and the webmasters could publish database entree to scruteneers (and Assembly) for a double check.

flying_spammer; this whole situation is a result of un-democratic happenings over the past period but somehow some person(s) lost it completely!!!! Although the timing for these threats gives room for further speculations now the Assembly has taken action to the votings.....

trux; I think the Assembly doesn't need to see these threats (at the moment) as they are personal towards a specific person and furtermore it is under police investigation and they should deal with it, these things are taken seriously these days (what is a good thing).


Just my 2 cents for today...

Grtzzzzzz,
Pim

 

[rxcnc2]

These developments are truly worrying and sad. First, I want to extend my sympathy to Bill: if the threats are real, it's really a serious matter, and that should never happen in a sport like ours (actually, it should never happen period). Second, I thought that the re-election of the Council as a phoenix out of its own ashes did not bode too well, after all the complaints and troubles we had seen. Perhaps this is a chance to think things over.

About voting, what's wrong with paper ballots? Or am I missing something here? You put your vote in an unmarked envelope, put that in another envelope with your name and signature, put a stamp. The ballots are then opened in front of two AIDA officials, and with a videocamera running for good measure. It's anonymous, and at the same time you have a count of who has voted.

 

[Stephan Whelan]

So we now hear that Bill has resigned - anybody know what is going on and is willing to share?

 

[jome]

One thing that people may not be aware of is that the assembly list is now public (at least that was the last I heard) - so anyone can have a look.

Other than that - looks like there will be another vote and Bill has stated that he will not run. No word so far is anyone else changing their candidacy.

 

[trux]

One thing that people may not be aware of is that the assembly list is now public (at least that was the last I heard) - so anyone can have a look.

That's exactly what I wished all the time. I think all the discussion of Assembly should be public, just as it is the case with parliaments. And even the Board should inform the member base about their actions more transparently.

Can you post the link to the mail list, please, Jome? I have no idea where to find it. The Assembly section of AIDA's forum is still hidden. I know it is not much used, but I suggest unlocking it too.

 

[Jouskari]

Can you post the link to the mail list, please, Jome? I have no idea where to find it. The Assembly section of AIDA's forum is still hidden. I know it is not much used, but I suggest unlocking it too.

Same problem... where do I find the list?

 

[Jorg]

Send an email to Assembly_AIDA-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
You will get a confirmation and you can sign up to yahoo groups.
Then you have to wait until the moderator (Bill?) approves you.

 

[trux]

OK, the web interface is here: Assembly_AIDA : Delegates Assembly of the International Association for the Developpment of Freediving
But Jorg is right - the group is not public. Jome, are you speaking about some other list, or are the message copies archived on some place where we can read them? Or what exactly did you mean by telling the list is now public?

 

[pim]

'open' was during the vote so everybody could send mails to this list (I do not know if you were able to read there but guess you could....). Now it is closed again and mails are bounced back if correct.....

Grtzzzzzzzzzzzz Pim

 

[trux]

Hm, why not opening the archive to public? I mean read-only access. Doesn't it make sense at an association that is supposed to be run in a democratic way?

 

[Jorg]

just got an answer from bill:

Hi Jorg

The AIDA Assembly list is for comunication between National AIDA's and AIDA Executive Board. Each National AIDA is represented by 2 persons only.

Regards

 

[trux]

Perhaps it is the best time to change it now. We do not need any totalitarian secretive management. It is our association, so why should be the discussion of the Assembly hidden from us? Any reason for it?

 

[jome]

'open' was during the vote so everybody could send mails to this list (I do not know if you were able to read there but guess you could....). Now it is closed again and mails are bounced back if correct.....

Grtzzzzzzzzzzzz Pim

Ok, so I was a little misinformed, I thought it was a permanent situation.

Personal opinnion is that it should be "readable by all" (but not writeable). People should be able to follow what their chosen representetatives do and say there. It's getting out anyway (at least I forward everything relevant to my countrymen) but it's just a little extra work for a lot of people to do so...

 

[trux]

Exact my thoughts, Simo. This hide-and-seek game AIDA plays with their member base since years is completely stupid and humiliating for all active members. We have to run after people willing to give us some information, and beg them for it. It only turns away people from any active participation in public matters. Many more of plain AIDA members might be willing to help with smaller tasks or taking active roles in commissions, if they were informed and involved. It would be nice to use the opportunity now, and change it.