-
Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
- Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
- Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
- Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
- Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
- All this and much more...
You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
Swimming&Diving with Lunocet Monofin
- Thread starterfinSailor
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
- Status
Hi FinSailor,
Not ignoring you but.....
I'm uniquely unqualified to answer your open water weighting questions as just a recreational pool swimmer, but have been experimenting with weighting in fore fins with Doc in a side thread.
Remember he put his neck weight inside the leading probe on his pectoral fin we call the "proboscis" from a similar looking appendage on insects.
I like the original unweighted one I made with lunocet classic flukes. It sinks by itself. The proboscis is hollow on that one. It seems to move better through the water after it fills with water. It works great for steering and depth control while moving in the pool. I tried the larger 2014 flukes on it but the size made it too cumbersome to articulate with my hands and wrists.
Now knowing I like the more compact flukes up front I've been assembling an additional fore fin with the 2012 rectangular carbon core flukes.
Following Doc's lead and reading your question I decided to fill the proboscis with a mixture of rubber and copper coated steel shot.
It is complete but needs another day to cure the rubber.
I'm hoping it will retain the properties of the first one and also glide more. Wish you could try it to see if it's applicable to the problem you are solving.
Threw in a gnome in the photo thinking some reside in the Finland forest...
Not ignoring you but.....
I'm uniquely unqualified to answer your open water weighting questions as just a recreational pool swimmer, but have been experimenting with weighting in fore fins with Doc in a side thread.
Remember he put his neck weight inside the leading probe on his pectoral fin we call the "proboscis" from a similar looking appendage on insects.
I like the original unweighted one I made with lunocet classic flukes. It sinks by itself. The proboscis is hollow on that one. It seems to move better through the water after it fills with water. It works great for steering and depth control while moving in the pool. I tried the larger 2014 flukes on it but the size made it too cumbersome to articulate with my hands and wrists.
Now knowing I like the more compact flukes up front I've been assembling an additional fore fin with the 2012 rectangular carbon core flukes.
Following Doc's lead and reading your question I decided to fill the proboscis with a mixture of rubber and copper coated steel shot.
It is complete but needs another day to cure the rubber.
I'm hoping it will retain the properties of the first one and also glide more. Wish you could try it to see if it's applicable to the problem you are solving.
Threw in a gnome in the photo thinking some reside in the Finland forest...
Last edited:
Thank you for the Gnome, Chip!
Off-Topic: Actually our 'original' gnomes based on folklore before 'Christianisation' and 'Disneyzation' were..eh, not that nice little people.. late movie explains.. google for 'Rare Exports Finnish Trailer (english)'.
Back to Luno business. I was advised by senior competitive free divers that in DYN I should find level of buoyancy that (with Luno) leaves me still in 1 - 1,5m depth after the a glide (or push) from the wall. That is to optimize energy expenditure. I can easily maintain that 1-1,5m depth while diving with Luno. Before I got my wetsuit, I never understood to try it but it felt pretty okay. Now with 1mm wetsuit I'll surface eventually with Luno without weights.
Luno weights approx 2,5kg? I made a 0,6kg weight (lead pellets in a bicycle's inner tyre). If that get s me close, I'll report. I suspect Luno is more buoyant that equally weighting pack of lead pellets, but it is damn hard to estimate. I'll do the usual try-and-error thingie..
Off-Topic: Actually our 'original' gnomes based on folklore before 'Christianisation' and 'Disneyzation' were..eh, not that nice little people.. late movie explains.. google for 'Rare Exports Finnish Trailer (english)'.
Back to Luno business. I was advised by senior competitive free divers that in DYN I should find level of buoyancy that (with Luno) leaves me still in 1 - 1,5m depth after the a glide (or push) from the wall. That is to optimize energy expenditure. I can easily maintain that 1-1,5m depth while diving with Luno. Before I got my wetsuit, I never understood to try it but it felt pretty okay. Now with 1mm wetsuit I'll surface eventually with Luno without weights.
Luno weights approx 2,5kg? I made a 0,6kg weight (lead pellets in a bicycle's inner tyre). If that get s me close, I'll report. I suspect Luno is more buoyant that equally weighting pack of lead pellets, but it is damn hard to estimate. I'll do the usual try-and-error thingie..
The overall buoyancy has a lot to do with which shoes you pair with it.
Mine is slightly positive presently with 2mm booties and will be getting moreso with the newest lightweight tri-shoes that I picked up.
I know what my lungs need on a normal / full inhale in terms of a neck weight (simply determined by a no-fins wall push-off and glide to stop) and just add a belt with weighting for any additional buoyancy gained from whichever wetsuit I happen to be wearing.
Even with a slightly negative Lunocet, I wouldn't think that it would make much more than a lb difference in terms of weighting.
When mine is negative (without socks), I don't change my weighting at all and I'm pretty picky about proper weighting and having a good glide (I'm really just lazy and want max m/kick!).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mine is slightly positive presently with 2mm booties and will be getting moreso with the newest lightweight tri-shoes that I picked up.
I know what my lungs need on a normal / full inhale in terms of a neck weight (simply determined by a no-fins wall push-off and glide to stop) and just add a belt with weighting for any additional buoyancy gained from whichever wetsuit I happen to be wearing.
Even with a slightly negative Lunocet, I wouldn't think that it would make much more than a lb difference in terms of weighting.
When mine is negative (without socks), I don't change my weighting at all and I'm pretty picky about proper weighting and having a good glide (I'm really just lazy and want max m/kick!).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited:
Note: 2 women that I know have legs that are too buoyant with their wetsuits on and add .5 lb in each leg under the wetsuit. This is not ideal as you have to move that extra mass 2x with each kick cycle.
A similar approach can be had for someone with a negative fin or just muscular legs that sink, by adding another layer of neoprene under the suit over the shin bone.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A similar approach can be had for someone with a negative fin or just muscular legs that sink, by adding another layer of neoprene under the suit over the shin bone.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited:
Thanks to both of you. I gather that the luno is negative, but slightly less so than the Dolfin I have. For me, the weighting issue with the fin is no issue at all in the pool. It gets important in the ocean. I like to just relax flat on the surface without having my legs drop out from under me. Bifins are slightly negative, but that is easily overcome to stay flat in the water. The Dolfin is another matter. It's slightly more negative than bifins, is much slicker, lacks the sculling ability of bifins, and I'm usually wearing no wetsuit on my legs, so my feet fall out from under me, fast. Floatation pretty much eliminates that. Same for vertical descents. Without some flotation, the fin is so slick that it wants to fall faster than the rest of you.
Interesting how much difference there is in individuals physiology/wetsuit coverage/weighting. Good point on the extra wetsuit material. I experimented with a wrap of 4 mil material above my ankle. Worked pretty well to keep my legs on the surface, but did not solve the vertical descent issue. Now I've got the fin buoyant enough to eliminate the vertical issue, and will experiment with again with the neoprene. So far, all that buoyancy has not harmed the surface swimming ability of the fin, which surprises me a little.
Of note is that the rubber material on a Lunocet is positively buoyant. The aluminum is not...
Shoes are GENERALLY negative, but I found some tri-shoes before that were made with LOTS of neoprene that were really positive.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Shoes are GENERALLY negative, but I found some tri-shoes before that were made with LOTS of neoprene that were really positive.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ah, this is best part of the DB - conversation here always surprises you how complex the seemingly simple issue can be. It never crossed my mind that one should consider buoyancy of different parts of the body.. Thank you guys.
I guess I'll make few small lead pellet bags more and go experimenting glide positions with them.
I guess I'll make few small lead pellet bags more and go experimenting glide positions with them.
I'll see if I can still find some of those darn old mouse pads, and use them as flotation aid on the shins, below the suit [emoji16]
"Ah, this is best part of the DB - conversation here always surprises you how complex the seemingly simple issue can be."
Amen!
I used to think I knew a lot about free diving, until I discovered DB and quickly figured out I did not know squat. Now I know a lot more, but have only scratched the surface.
Amen!
I used to think I knew a lot about free diving, until I discovered DB and quickly figured out I did not know squat. Now I know a lot more, but have only scratched the surface.
Agreed!! Considering we never actually get to swim together I learn huge amounts from you posters...
Particularly directions in which to search for more fun or performance.
Revisiting the weighting issues led to making the 2012 Lunocet weighted canard or fore fin I experienced for the first time this morning..... It is really neat!
I hang on comments like cdavis about how "slick" his rig feels or AA admiring the long glides of the Lunogirl who is not even wearing her most slippery suit...... Couple that with the videos of you breath hold divers who glide effortlessly ahead of surface finners striving to keep up for photos or safety and it hightens the desire to experience what you must be feeling.....
Got more of that gliding experience today than I've noticed before. Myself and others have written that we felt continuous swimming was our best mode to keep going.... But some of you appear to swim much less to move even better.
Personalizing and dialing in this weighting issue is required to get there. The momentum we create swimming seems to be captured and conserved by the density of the proper weights then kindly returned as extended glide.
Trip to the pool this morning felt more like I took a cool "ride" or long glides courtesy of my equipment contrasted with the usual experience of more actively "swimming" it.
Particularly directions in which to search for more fun or performance.
Revisiting the weighting issues led to making the 2012 Lunocet weighted canard or fore fin I experienced for the first time this morning..... It is really neat!
I hang on comments like cdavis about how "slick" his rig feels or AA admiring the long glides of the Lunogirl who is not even wearing her most slippery suit...... Couple that with the videos of you breath hold divers who glide effortlessly ahead of surface finners striving to keep up for photos or safety and it hightens the desire to experience what you must be feeling.....
Got more of that gliding experience today than I've noticed before. Myself and others have written that we felt continuous swimming was our best mode to keep going.... But some of you appear to swim much less to move even better.
Personalizing and dialing in this weighting issue is required to get there. The momentum we create swimming seems to be captured and conserved by the density of the proper weights then kindly returned as extended glide.
Trip to the pool this morning felt more like I took a cool "ride" or long glides courtesy of my equipment contrasted with the usual experience of more actively "swimming" it.
Just got back from a pool. As I planned, I tested variety of weight options. 1-3,5kg some times located on waist, sometimes on back. Approx 3,2-3,5 is good for DNF. But with same suit and Luno, I ended up with approx 3kg. Based on comments from friendly co-divers when they observed the diving. I'll post a video later, now some zzzzzz first, it's midnight in Finland..
And here is the video. Based on yesterdays' trial, I'm preparing a neck-weight today.
AA is right, nice job!
Both of you are having a bit of issue with even leg pressure. Foil fins, Luno and Dol-fin alike, are susceptible to canting of the fin off level due to uneven leg pressure. Traditional monos, with much larger blade surfaces, hide the issue. Takes a bit of focus, but you will get it. Much more efficient if the blade stays level.
Both of you are having a bit of issue with even leg pressure. Foil fins, Luno and Dol-fin alike, are susceptible to canting of the fin off level due to uneven leg pressure. Traditional monos, with much larger blade surfaces, hide the issue. Takes a bit of focus, but you will get it. Much more efficient if the blade stays level.
Cdavis is right about these foil type fins: getting your two feet in synch independently is especially important because we get less feedback. To address the issue of uneven foot pressure you might want to try practicing your undulation technique using short bi-fins: the softer and floppier they are the better.
I know I'm being repetitive, but I'm a big advocate of working on the surface with a frontal snorkel as a way of improving monofin technique underwater. I was schooled in this practice by Mike Maric, a coach for some of Italy's top competitive freedivers, and I feel that this was really useful for me. While breathing through the snorkel, and using the surface of the water as a plumbline for your body, you can really focus on getting your feet to doing the same thing, and this habit should become automatic underwater.
Regarding my own practice with the Luno Pro, I got to try mine out for the first time yesterday. I can't do the same distance with this foil type fin as I can with a traditional hyperfin, but that's to be expected from the first try. I haven't really tapped into the foil effect yet and I haven't tried all of the settings either. Practice, practice, practice. I've also got to do some surface work.
I'm impressed with the agility of the Luno Pro, and the amazing wall-turns I was able to do. One of the things that holds me back with my hyperfin is the difficulty of turns. Comfort is also a bonus. I don't think that I'll experience much foot cramping with my triathlon shoes.
I know I'm being repetitive, but I'm a big advocate of working on the surface with a frontal snorkel as a way of improving monofin technique underwater. I was schooled in this practice by Mike Maric, a coach for some of Italy's top competitive freedivers, and I feel that this was really useful for me. While breathing through the snorkel, and using the surface of the water as a plumbline for your body, you can really focus on getting your feet to doing the same thing, and this habit should become automatic underwater.
Regarding my own practice with the Luno Pro, I got to try mine out for the first time yesterday. I can't do the same distance with this foil type fin as I can with a traditional hyperfin, but that's to be expected from the first try. I haven't really tapped into the foil effect yet and I haven't tried all of the settings either. Practice, practice, practice. I've also got to do some surface work.
I'm impressed with the agility of the Luno Pro, and the amazing wall-turns I was able to do. One of the things that holds me back with my hyperfin is the difficulty of turns. Comfort is also a bonus. I don't think that I'll experience much foot cramping with my triathlon shoes.
- Status