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The big Dog Tooth Tuna took my MT3 away.....

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
74
0
Hi Don,

James Carter made the float to look like and act like a parachute because it will not only offer air lift from the 20 liters but it will allow water drag like a sea anchor. It is like putting a bucket of water and drag it along in water. So I have two breaking effects, water resistance no matter where the fish is heading or how deep and lift resistance because the float wants to head up to the surface.

There is no way I can fill the float up with my scuba tank, no time. C02 is the only ticket for fast action but they cost like US$50 each for a 150 gram and I heard in quantity of 10 they go down to US$30. In my currency this is big money but surely hell cheaper than loosing a gun.

5 liter of air in sea water is equivalent to about 5.75 kg of up lift or 12 pounds. This is not enough for any 50 pounder tuna or more. My fins at best can offer a lift of 20 pounds if I kick like mad. All the big tuna I shot have been always heading for the bottom, not a good direction for me to follow at this deep pinnacle. I have no idea how much resistance in pounds the parachute offers but it should increase with speed, that I am sure.

Tuna can hit 50mph free swimming when not shot. My best bet is to get 150 gram C02 for that float. I calculate I will get about 15 liters of air lift at 120 feet and from 90 feet or shallower it will be a full 20 liters.

Say 15 liters, that means 17kg or 37 pounds of lift. Assuming the parachute shape offers another drag of 20-30 pounds at "X" speed. I have then about 57-67 pounds of drag resistance against the fish of which 37 pounds is up lift heading to the surface. I add my finning power of about 20 pounds. I think I should be OK, I hope. This way I am like a freediver with a single Riffe Torpedo type float, in terms of floatation power. Not too good but should be better than only my fins against the fish.

Can't tell until I really test it.


Don't worry about weight belts ego, I think it is good because if you dumped it, you are guaranteed to float to the surface, isn't it safer than being a neutral buoyancy person ?:eek:

Thanks again Don.


Do you know what I will do this Saturday to make sure I will not loose my gun ? I called this "project" reverse floatation. I will set up 2 of 55 pounds weight on the bottom. One behind the pinnacle and one in front of it. Both weight will have a thick 5/16" rope attached to it and both will be connected to each other at 110 feet deep. So it will be like a "U" shaped but upside down. Since the pinnacle stood like an apartment building and averagely 100 feet above the sand bottom, 2 weight connected together on opposite end of the pinnacle will make a solid anchor. There is no way even a 200 pounder tuna can drag 2 of 55 pounds weight 100 feet up to clear the pinnacle. Somehow the 5/16" rope will get entangled on the rocks too, that offer extra braking.

I will set up this 2 weights on the fishy zone of the pinnacle. I will then use the Riffe floatline of 100 feet and breakaway to the gun. I will clip the floatline to the 5/16" rope and the other to the gun. However, I will get only 100 feet movement radius from where ever I clip that floatline to, good enough when the fish is plenty. When I fire at a fish, it then will have to drag that 55 pounds weight ( in water weight probably only 47 pounds ) around. Since two weights of 55 pounds are attached, in the extreme of pull direction, the tuna will have to drag both 55 pounds weight.

I purposely wanted the weight not more than 55 pounds because I don't want the fish to tear its flesh if the shot is not vital. A very very big tunacan drag 3 of Baywatch type of rescue floats, that is a lot more than 55 pounds of drag.

I will tie a big knot on the 5/16" rope at 120 feet deepest, this way there is no way the floatline clip can slide down to the 180-230 feet bottom. If the floatline clip goes too deep, I dare not collect the fish too. :D. I am setting 160 feet as maximum depth I ever want to go.

Sounds a bit crazy eh ? But this is what I ( my gang actually ) can think of before the parachute float combo arrive.

Yes, I will need four of my gang to spend at least one dive gun-less to set the 55 pounds weight on proper spot. We can use the 7 liter surface marker as lift bag, 4 surface marker will lift or lighten the load of the 55 pounds weight.

Any crazier idea appreciated:D :eek:

IYA
 
icarus pacific

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
212
0
63
Any crazier idea appreciated
IYA


Naah. that'd be about it. :hmm


sven
 
Abriapnea

Abriapnea

New Member
Jan 16, 2002
678
43
0
59
Me ; my gun and the deep blue sea ...
Tech spearing seems to be alive and kicking .
Condolences on your loss , Iya ; applause for your commitment and a prayer that you take care down there .
Your seamount sounds like the place to be , unfortunately am suffering extreme cash flow problems due to low tourist turnout .
Safe hunting .
 
Aquiles

Aquiles

King of the Kup KK04'
Sep 19, 2001
276
22
0
47
This place is my HEAVEN !!!!!!!


IYA [/B]


Mad props to you there Iya, I don't see the Karma button on your post! Stephan what is wrond with that. Hey man Im glad that you have the brains to take this as a learning experience and see the good side of it!. May god rain riffes on you like manna from heaven, screw the karma! You are the new Hulk of humility!.(It took me a while to think up something catchy!)

Aquiles
 
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J

Jay Styron

New Member
Aug 31, 2001
500
48
0
56
Hey Iya,
Sorry to hear about your loss, but glad you made it back.
BTW: Ever heard the phrase about, "deminishing returns"?:eek:
Jay
 
icarus pacific

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
212
0
63
is that anything like DIminishing returns??

how's that apply to wetsuits Jay?? :t

and Abri- there's a special picture for you on Anderson's website, www.2james.net



sven
 
J

Jay Styron

New Member
Aug 31, 2001
500
48
0
56
Like I said, I'm just going to coat the whole inside w/ glue then I won't have to bother w/ anymore rips;) But the bottom line is I looked good.
Jay:king
 
icarus pacific

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
212
0
63
and yoooroooked mahvelous! :martial


sven
 
Dogmatrix

Dogmatrix

Deeper Blues pet
Jun 4, 2002
210
20
108
39
Iya... I now have an MT5 :cool:
soon as I can will post how it handles in the water.
Not as big looking as I expected it to be... bounced a spear off a large coral trouts forehead yesterday with my 1.3M... also got to watch a feeding frenzy up close after a mate speared then lost a nice coral trout in a bit of a cave... mostly reef sharks (white tips0 but also a little whaler... he was pretty agro...


Catch you mate!
Rob
 
I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
74
0
Congrats Matrix,

Tell me if those description of the gun's aluminum workmanship, I told you about is a lie or the truth ....:D :D

Get used to it in near by water and you will get comfy when in PNG. Have fun.....
 
I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
74
0
ABRI,

Don't feel bad about the slow tourism. Thailand is not even half as bad as Bali. It should recover soon. Hang tight bro.


JAY & AQUILES,
Thanks. I'll try not too loose the gun again. Last Saturday I set up the weight I described but no fish. Saw one HUGE one at about 180 feet deep and I was already at 140 feet....now way I was going down to chase it. We all came home empty handed. The current was odd that day. I didn't even see snappers or jacks, very unusual and no upwelling...what a waste.

It was so funy looking at 4 sets of Riffe floatline of 4 divers running to the same 5/16" rope. It looks like mess up giant bowl of sapheggeti (spelling ?? ). I am placing another 2 set of weights this coming Thursday cause Thursday & Friday is a holiday here.


IYA
 
icarus pacific

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
212
0
63
heads up!

I just saw some guy put a Riffe MT#4S on ebay, auction number 3608008080 for a sweet deal.


sven
 
Dogmatrix

Dogmatrix

Deeper Blues pet
Jun 4, 2002
210
20
108
39
IYA I think my GF's pool might be big enough for some testing... the MT#5s i have has a thin black shooting line... so I will have to look for some 500# cable as yourself, Sven and others have mentioned it's the go at one time or another.

(one question... can the shooting line still be wrapped around you easily? if it is how are you ment to cut it?)

The metal work on the metal techs is seriously smooth!!!:D I am not game to pull it apart yet as I would hate to not be able to put it back togethe or to muck something up! Riffe wasn't mucking around when he made this gun, it is built to the kind of specifications I would expect IYA to ask for!

I will see how it handles in the water, I have just come back from a little coral sea expedition which due to 20 - 25 knot winds was rather uncomfortable... we didn't end up with any fish to take home, I shot one nice hump headed parrot but he slipped streight back off the shaft... this is becoming a regular occurance (fish slipping off shaft after being nailed) so perhaps I need to look at this flopper (will do that in 20 mins infact), the end tally was one pretzel like shaft that ended up lost, one snapped rubber on my 130 CM rail gun and no fish... but thier was one hell of a feeding frenzy with the sharks... lol all reefies and little whalers.
If you would like to read more i wrote a short post at http://www.spearfishing.com.au/ under spearo's corner and labeled arab reef. It's not a great account, but it will serve. (almost lost my toe fighting a good fish on 80# handline... have a nice white line all the way round it!)

Cheers rob
 
I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
74
0
Matrix,

If u use the 500# coated cable, I mean coated not bare stainless steel, you will not want to go back to mono (for big guns & heavy shafts ). It does not kink as easy as mono ( funny but it is true ), handle easy in the water, etc etc. The MT shooting line release will easily handle 4 wraps, double wraps that is or +-9 meters for MT5. Make sure you get a suitable crimps and crimper to do the cable shoot line. I double crimps both ends, safer.

Since you are using a float, you will need to cut at the nylon part of the rope or get a wire cutter, Uncle Sven has posted once "Sea Snipe" or something like that.

If you GF pool is at least 10 meter long, you can sure practice there. I think I want to look for a GF like that too...:eek:

If you want to breakdown an MT series, email me first. I will tell you what to do and what you need. I don't think u r as itchy handed as I am..:D

Have fun....
IYA
 
Dogmatrix

Dogmatrix

Deeper Blues pet
Jun 4, 2002
210
20
108
39
Iya.. i got to use that MT#5 yesterday... got a few nice fish... we were mostly reef fishing and my Railgun broke down.. (both the mech and the rubbers). :( so I basically had to use the riffe for reef also... I missed a few nice mackeral... both sharky and spaniards but nailed some nice coral trout and footballer trout later in the day!

End thoughts are

1. Need new shooting line... mono is for people who spear from a computer... (stretches like buggery). will use either the dynema or coated 500# ss cable... but am worried i will get caught in the cable and be unable to cut it:confused: .

2. need the aluminium muzzle and another 2 rubbers... 3 arn't cutting it for what I would like... maybe 4 will:confused: but we will see.. if not I get the 3/8th shaft and go up even more rubbers till my gun looks like yours and floats simply cause it has that much rubber :head.

3. Most importent! Need to get some target pracitce in so I nail some decent pelagics.


Rob!

Oh yes... the story is on both www.spearfishing.com and www.spearfishing.com.au
thought is would be overkill to post it here also :duh
 
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I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
74
0
Hi Matrix,

At 3 bands, make sure you aim the Riffe way in high power mode. That is high on the muzzle and low on the butt. Get used to it. Add another band, ur plastic muzzle can take that no problem. When u have enough experiment then switch to the aluminum muzzle and power her up. I think the MT5 will float without shaft.
Try some target shooting to see the deviation.

The mono is OK when new but after some kinking it is no fun. U should get the 5" bungie & pig tail swivel with the gun as standard. U can unclip at the pig tail or cut the 5" bungie which has the 450# dacron inside. Makes shooting line loading a breeze.

Keep testing and sorry to hear ur RA broke the trigger mech. I think u better becareful with your RA trigger mech, it does not seems to be able to survive stress too long. Any good mech should last well over a few thousand shots without failure at maximum loading.

See Ya,

IYA
 
Shadowkiller

Shadowkiller

Digital Hunter
Jul 30, 2002
1,272
267
0
44
Just to avoid confusion: Rob's gun is an Edge, not an RA...

But the euro triggermech all have the same prob in the way they retain the shaft with a rounded sear rather than the stronger 90deg system.

Iya: Watcha mean "cut the bungee"? Do you use the dacron inside as shooting line?:confused:
 
I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
74
0
Forgive me Shadow, I thought "railgun" is RA for sure. Anyway if the trigger comes from the same manufacturer, I guess u guys using them better be careful. It takes time to worn out the trigger, the more you use the gun the more u must be careful. Initial brand new test maybe "X" value because the trigger sears are brand new, now after hundreds of firing it is a different story.

Damn, I always forget that you guys are using breakaway set up for the guns.

This is what I mean by a 5" bungie & pigtail shivel. All Riffes must come standard with it when new and not yet set for breakaway.

The one on the left is my own modification, the dacron get replaced by 1000# Kevlar. The one on the right is the original one. You can cut it there or unclip when the shaft get stuck or something. When a big fish pull, I doubt you have time to cut it.

If you use a breakaway, u can always put 1 feet of Spectra or Kevlar before the floatline clip. A sharp knife can cut them easy.


IYA
 
Dogmatrix

Dogmatrix

Deeper Blues pet
Jun 4, 2002
210
20
108
39
Iya the gun I use is an edge not an RA.. but that diference doesn't mean a lot as most of the euro and railguns are pretty similar as shadow mentioned. Lucky for me i always carry a spare handle... everyone laughs at me... but it has come in handy now.. I am not sure what the problem is but that mech has been faulty for a while... I took it apart and initial check looks ok:confused: but i will have a better look tommorow! the shaft won't lock into the mech... just go's in then slides out.. this has happened on two seperate occasions now... so i am a bit annoyed. Might do as was suggested by a mate and take it down to engineering and get them to remake it in better quality steel... and bugger off the soft crap and the plastic line release (which is crappy).


The railgun would certainly have been the more useful gun in that situation... I will get another rubber sent to me iya... and two new rubbers for the railgun... would like to try the mean green rubbers if I can afford them... we will see eh!

as for shooting line the mono has already stretched making it lose on the muzzle the heat shrink on the crimps has come off and it is already displaying signs of kinking. (needs to be replaced).

I think different guns for different situations.

Rob

Iya the riffe is setup with the pigtail swivel... not the breakaway... I think breakaway would be very bad idea for the reef... i can see some very interesting tangles :) :duh I will set the riffe for breakaway when my slip tip and extra rubber get here...

On the slip tip side I am waiting for my card to be "registered" on paypal so I can send William Kitto some $$... wish there was a cheap easy way to just directly transfer the $$ to his account...:( now not only do I wait for the mail i wait till i can pay him first...
 
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