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The big Dog Tooth Tuna took my MT3 away.....

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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icarus pacific

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
2,880
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easy there, Skippy.

Originally posted by Dogmatrix

1. mono is for people who spear from a computer... (stretches like buggery). will use either the dynema or coated 500# ss cable... but am worried i will get caught in the cable and be unable to cut it .QUOTE]


I'm sure all divers using mono appreciate your opinion. :hmm There are situations that mono is the only thing you'll want to use, just as there are situations where cable is the best choice.

And Spectra/Dyneema will foul you up as well as cable and you'll not be able to cut it either. Strap a pair of snips into the knife sheath and go learn to shoot your new gun.

Bill's at a family thing and won't be back for a week.


sven
 
Dogmatrix

Dogmatrix

Deeper Blues pet
Jun 4, 2002
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*grins* yeah I was a little peeved at the mono... I sat their for around 15 mins trying to sort things out correctly whilst shooting as the mono had stretched, there is a use for everything! I guess you use what works for you. mono doesn't work for me, so I will try something else that does... i have dynema on my railgun and am very happy with it... If people using mono are upset that I don't like it... I am really sorry guys... here i am being all so inconsiderate... :t hehehe

A few people now have warned me about spectra/dynema telling me they both float about a bit to much and are more likely to catch you out then the SS cable which sinks... I don't know that from experiance that is what I have been led to believe. i have found I can cut the dynema ok... perhpas this would be different underwater or if the knife was blunt?

I think Bill is safe from me for now!!! I can't see my bank balance turning up for a month or so yet... and paypal specifically tells you not to go into the bank to ask for it... (they print a little number besides a purchase and you have to state it to use your card very slow.. but good protection).

Sven as a note of interest where is the mono superior to dynema or cable? I am not asking as sarcasm I am interested to know... kelp or something like that?

Cheers rob. thanks for the quick reply sven! hope your getting out and spearing a few! (fish that is).

Think I need a target and a few hours of clear water and practice... your definately right about the target practise... missed more fish yesterday then i have ever done before... the railgun might have changed all that...
 
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I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
74
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Hi Matrix,

I and my gang used Kevlar 1000# for a while as shooting line, since we scuba, we re-do the shooting line underwater, I can't recall how it handles on the surface. Anyway at 2 wraps, Riffe wraps that is ( means there are a total of 4 lines running from your line release mechanism ), it is quite troublesome. At 3 Riffe wraps, it is very messy and if you are in a current...that's it. Since I been hunting wrecks and now the dogies love to wrap around rocks, cable is my choice. Must be coated cable, those naked ones are violent to my fingers.

Also you must know that my smallest common shaft is 8mm (5/16"), it can take the 500# coated cable mass and weight. For my MT0 I use 270# coated cable for 7mm,8mm and 9.5mm shafts, it kinks a bit easier than 500 but as small as 300# mono diameter.

Now my ex-MT3 was 4 Riffe wraps, I can only use cable for such many wraps. The 3/8" (9.5mm ) shaft doesn't get bothered with thick 500# cable, even at 4 wraps. I am sure my shaft is a bit slower than if using 400# mono, but I fell to love coated cable so much and can't change to anything else. You can rub those 500# coated cable against almost anything without fear of breaking, have not lost any shafts when using it...I just lost the whole gun...ha ha ha. My only mono experience has been with Riffe black mono. I heard the Jinkai mono is very flexible and smooth.

Mono has inherent stretch capability of about 20-30%, so they said, in some hunting situation I think it acts well as shock absorber. The only thing I hate about mono ( maybe all mono), it somehow shrink when not used for a long time. Difficult to set on the gun, yep it already has a few kinks on it.


Cheers
IYA
 
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icarus pacific

icarus pacific

Human-in-training
Nov 7, 2001
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Dog- One of the biggest areas that monofilament line is better than other materials is cost. One of the nice things about mono is that it exhibits some stiffness as well as being able to take a turn and bend. You'll find that unless it's waxed or coated, Spectra/Dyneema and Kevlar is real limp and tends to be a bit of work in lining everything up nice and clean when you're in the water. The inherent stiffness of the mono makes it easier to figure out where it's going. Mono in pure kelp is fine, though with the critters and such that live in it, it'll nick with time as well. But at a third the cost of other stuff, who cares. Just make real sure that you dispose of it properly. Everyone used mono at KK03, and I only changed out twice and once was for the shaft.

Cable, especially coated cable acts the same way as the strands give the whole it's stiffness and the lay of the cable lends it the flexibility. The plastic coating gives it a degree of stiffness as well. The down side of cble is the weight. It's not such a big deal when all wrapped up on the gun but makes the shaft do whoopdies on it's way out to tag lunch. If you use cable, expect to need additional oomph from the bigger bands to offset the weight of the cable affecting the shaft, especially if the shaft is light.

While mono probably does stretch, I've never had it stretch to any great degree that would bugger the rig and 30% stretch??
:confused: Yeah, well you leave it in the sun with a boat on either end...

And Iya- thanks for getting back to me about that #4. It's gone for more than I was going to offer it to you. Karma works both ways boet.


sven
 
Dogmatrix

Dogmatrix

Deeper Blues pet
Jun 4, 2002
210
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Thanks for the info on the lines Sven.. think I might just try some waxed dynema on the Riffe to start with... or maybe the ss coated cable... will have to have a deep and meaningful with myself over that.

Yes i understand your points with the mono it is certainly more pocket friendly... I found the thicker heavier mono's to be ok.. it is the thinner mono's that give me trouble... and I found that they tend to streth quite easily (the thinner ones) when i first put them on they stretch a fair bit... then stabilize for a while... but then i moved to dynema and haven't looked back since. I stich it, bind it then glue it with araldite or a touch of superglue.. add a bungy to the it and you won't have a problem due to the no stretch while rigging.

Cheers Rob
 
I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
74
0
Gee Uncle Sven,

I almost forgot about #4, so sorry. I was so intense on getting back #3 and was offered a subsidy on#5 from one of my better off good friend. He ordered two of them and wants me to use one of it as back up to my #3. Not a bad offer right. I only pay if I loose it again....Hell no way I will loose it again, not with the parachute float coming with it.

I still wants to get the first generation reel if you still have any:D

Thanks Uncle Sven.

IYA
 
S

Spearooo

New Member
May 2, 2003
98
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extra line

Hey iya, Good to hear that you are ok. I feel your pain, I lost my beloved Rob Allen in a similar circumstance. I had speard a 60+lbs Amberjack that put up ahell of a fight. When I was finaly close to him and got my hands in his gills i let go of the gun and let it float behind me as I was intent on putting his lights out with my knife whe I hear a distan screaming and think nothing of it bc. I figured that the hookand line guys were screaming something about staying clear of their boat but we had been of the spot first so they would just have to suck it up. The boat was about a hundred yard away helping out the other diver so I would have to wait a bit. I notice that the people on the other boat were frantic so I raised my head out of the water to hear the words we all dread. Shark!!!! I felt a chill in my spinen and looked over my rigth shoulder to see ahuge dorsal followed by the top half of a tail slicing the water almost at arms length. Determined to get sight of my killer before he struck I put my head in the water and he carved a tight loop around me when he knew that iknew he was there. A that point I saw a 10 foot hammerhead no more than 10 feet from me. his muscles rippling as he moved like a machine from hell. At that point I realized i still had the AJ firmly in my grip. I let it go as fast as I could and quickly yelled for the boat and put my face right back into the water. I wasn't about to let him get me by surprise. As the Aj sank out of view( vis was only about 20 feet the shark circled me for a what seemed like an eternity and then made off with his meal gun and all. I was shaken and gunless but lucky to have all my limbs and much wiser.
what I learned is never to be complaicent even when you think nothing can go wrong bc. even I though the boat was about to pick me up and the Aj was under control there was still enough time to almost get eaten. when the boat finaly came my freind who had seen the dorsal and heard me yell though I was history bc after the first yell i was floating face down to not lose sight of the shark but they thought the worst. I feel much more respect for murky water now.
Something one of my freinds does that might help you is having a reel with a few hundred feet of line and a quick release clip on his weight belt . Once the first reel gets spooled you could clip the second reel to the back of the gun and buy some time if nothing else.

Keep up the good work :D
 
J

j.grady

blue member
May 5, 2003
26
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miami amberjack

"I had speard a 60+lbs Amberjack" - Spearooo


Trying to catch a spot of ciguetera, or do you just shoot those miami AJ's for the worms?:p
 
S

Spearooo

New Member
May 2, 2003
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Aj

I wasn't in Miami. We were diving north west florida. The guys that I was with told me they eat them all the time and as far as I know cuiquatera is more of a problem further south and a 60 pound AJ is still considered a medium sized fish. We got our limit that day although the rest of the fish were smaller none of them had worms and we ate them with no problems as a matter of fact his folks were stoked that we limited out. I bet most restaurants sell A.J as grouper or something of the sort bc. the meat is nice and white and tasty but I agree I wouldn't shoot anything bigger than that fish for the same reason.
later
 
I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
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0
Hi Spearoo0,

Thanks for the "condolences" :D :D
Nice AJ story, I don't have AJ in my hunting area. 1000 miles to the east in Bali, they are available.

The lost of the MT3 is making a big hole in my pocket cause it is very expensive the way it was rigged can buy perhaps 4 RAs.....:waterwork. Anyway : nothing lost , nothing gained....they said.

If such a big shark come that close to me, I'll probably loose my gun again in fear...:eek: Seriously, I never and do not ever want such close encounter. Brrrrrrr...scarry.

IYA
 
J

j.grady

blue member
May 5, 2003
26
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ahhhh. nw florida, that makes sense......i have eaten plenty of aj's from there, they have a low % of toxin their because their diet differs......i hear they are a little safer in the . keys also because chances are they have migrated from the gulf where they spawn.....

where were you spearing in the nw?
 
S

Spearooo

New Member
May 2, 2003
98
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Were diving out of saint pete, on a freinds boat.
Iya don't you wish you could get the gun insured. Those darn riffes are marked up so dam much. I heard his float cost him about 15 dollars to make and they sell them for 180 at the dive shops go figure. It would be nice to get them direct from Jay for what the stores get them for but that would be tough. Im sure you could get some kind of discount since you are a serious diver that will likely buy more gear in future but I heard that riffe doesn't allow his dealers to lower the prices on his guns any more than 10% wich kind of blows bc. most friendly shop that know you are a repeat customer will cut some slack especialy since they should want you on their side bc. you could turn alot of people on to them but they are still a pretty penny It took me lots of saving to get mine.
this is what i think of those tunas :p hopefuly someday Ill get the chance to stick my own
keep it up
 
I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
74
0
Well, the local Riffe dealer is a good buddy of mine and my hunting group in fact. I don't complaint on the discount but it is the shipping that is the real killer. Say an MT5 Fed-Ex from USA to my city will cost +-US$250, just for the shipping !!!!:head. I am really on the opposite side of USA if u see the globe, so highest rate for any freight. A mask from an internet shop in UK ( in fact Deeper Blue Shop ) will cost US$45.00 to ship, even if the cost of the mask is US$29.00.........wha ha ha, whacky world.

My 2 wing kits and my reel are the most expensive options of the lost MT3. Those 1000# Kevlar of 150 feet cost lots of money, no matter where you buy unless you want to buy bulk. I mean real bulk.

The problem with me being so far away from US is shipping. If I try to save money by buying from 3 different suppliers, I will pay hell for the shipping, in the end I pay more for everything. In Australia Riffe cost more than in my country .In Japan, I think it is the world's most expensive place to buy a Riffe or any speargun.

You see spearguns can not be exported in bulks like TV, unless in huge market like USA, maybe. As soon as u you use airfreight.......that's it, things get very expensive. The dealers here sells Riffe for fun and pleasure, there is no money in it. They retail about the same as US and yet they paid all shipping and a huge import tax ( this tax stuff can be negotiated ;) ) They rarely sell more than 10-15 units a year and never stock more than 3-5 units...wha ha ha. On top of that there is an import licence for speargun equivalent to almost a firearm, more money down the drain. The last time I Fed-Ex myself an MT0 from USA, the custom confiscated it. It took real effort and money. More than tripple the value of the MT0 to release it. Its my toy and I have to get it out, it is personal.

So that's what I call them dealers selling for pleasure and fun, there is no money in it, not in my country.

So what we do is, we all hunters choose what we want and we import them twice a year thru the dealer. We pay in 100% in advance but bang for the buck "friend-friend" price. Since my gang is quite big, the shipment weight will qualify to go regular air forwarder and need no expensive Fed-Ex or UPS or the kind. Isn't this a sweet set up.:D :D

And then there is this internal financing scheme by the "well-to-do" hunters. They will buy or have spare guns for us the shallow pocket hunters to use. You only pay when u loose it. Hell, a few of my core hunter group have at least 3 if not 5 Riffes each dude.
It is all about friendship. My coming fully rigged MT5 is under such scheme...:p

And there is no such thing as insurance for a speargun here, even most boats are not insured, many cars too. Wha ha ha.:eek:
 
S

Spearooo

New Member
May 2, 2003
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shipping

Well I guess if I ever come visit Ill leave my clothes at home travel with a suitcase full of gear and help you guys out. But if my baby gets kidnapped by customs ill :waterwork .
have you ever gotten gear from www.scubastore.com they have great prices and they get the gear to me in three days from spain for not to bad a price. I end up paying much less even if i went local. just a thought
 
donmoore

donmoore

New Member
Aug 19, 2002
958
154
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62
lift bag from Jim Carter

Iya,
Did you get the lift bag from Jim Carter yet? How does it work and what does it look like? Can you post some pictures of it inclosed (where are you keeping it) and open?

Do to a freak partial boat sinking, mine went out to sea, so I need to order another. I might have Jim make mine like yours.
Thanks,
Don
 
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Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
998
74
0
Hi Don,

Look up at the Hunting Equipment, I just post wonderful photos and info for you.


IYA
 
Mr. X

Mr. X

Forum Mentor
Staff member
Forum Mentor
Jul 14, 2005
8,244
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Dogmatrix said:
"If I use a breakaway system, I will have less than 2 seconds to pull the activator chord..........scarry !! " (IYA)

Well I think the breakaway is the way to go... it would be too $$ not to go that way I am thinking after your recent ordeal!

How about just making that activator cord longer... and a bit thicker so it's easier to grab hold of and pull?

or if you wanted to make sure that it would be pulled everytime without fail... how about attaching the "activator cord" to your gun using some lite line say 10KG... this way the activator cord is pulled when your fish pulls the breakaway system out... no false alarms... :cool:
...
Sorry to revive an old thread like this -- but I thought the idea of a break away was that they automatically breakaway when a significant pull (> than force produced by firing) is made e.g. like the Rob Allen one, where a rubber tube must be pulled from its metal ring. By the way, there are some other threads here which show a v. simple alternative that releases every shot -- but that seems less than ideal.
 
donmoore

donmoore

New Member
Aug 19, 2002
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Mr X,
I’m not exactly sure what Iya was talking about, but I think he was not and seldom uses a float line (he mostly on scuba), so I think he was thinking of pulling the activation of an inflatable float. He did a lot of work on inflatable floats and is still using them. He has gone through many revisions of them.

Speaking of breakaways, I recently purchased a Wong gun which had a breakaway setup I was not familiar with. It works without any need for a pull to release it and it can be changed to non-breakaway system simply by where you attach the float line clip.

Here are some pictures Darly Wong sent me when I asked him how it is suppose to work. Very simple actually. A small bungee cord tied in a loop is attached to the shooting line and loops over the line release lever. If you want a breakaway system (or more accurately an automatic spear to shooting line system) you simply attach the float line clip only to the loop in the shooting line that bungee loop is attached to. When the gun is shot the bungee loop and shooting line is automatically released to the floating line - without any need for pull!

To change the gun to a non-breakaway setup, you simply attach the hook both to the shooting line loop and the gun butt loop (the coated double wire loop through the hole in the butt in the picture.

The only problem with this system I see is when you miss the fish you have to retrieve the shooting line and float line to reload, but the advantage is (besides the quick change between breakaway and non-breakaway) is the infallibility of the breakaway release. If you have ever used a breakaway or spent some time watching someone, then you probably have seen them manually grab the tubing and yank it out when either it did not come out on its on, or they just wanted to make sure it did so they could start toward the surface. It’s not a big deal at 30’, but at 80’ the extra effort and time can be more than you can spare.

If the gun gets at an angle, it can bend the rubber tubing at the hole and cause more difficulty in releasing it. The only time, so far, I ever had to hold someone while they had a samba, was just because of this.

So cheers to Darly Wong for coming up with a simpler and in my view, better breakaway system.
don
 

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