The British Freediving Championships in Dynamic and Static Apnea 2007

Sam,
My point is that whilst I was there I wasn't drawn to freediving and that changed when I moved away. I know of Saltfree and other clubs and organisations now but they were a million miles away when I was geographically much closer. The change in culture... well attitudes at least has been good.

samdive said:

Lucia - you didn't enter because you didn't want to pay for a medical! that's quite simple!

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That proves my point! I and some others did not want to pay for the medical. That is obviously a reason why people are not competing. Whether it is a good reason is another matter, but it has clearly put some people off.

I think Sam might have identified the kind of difficulties that the freediving community in the UK is experiencing right now. We have had the glory days of Howard Jones and the original bunch of freedivers who have largely left the scene now but who made freediving vibrant and who said (even sexy). Cyprus is past history but certainly we remember those days with fondness. Today, we no longer have to travel across the Country for the one and only event. Freediving has evolved into a few clubs sprouting up across the UK, the formation of the British Freediving Association and a few individuals (like me) where no clubs were nereby and we continued doing our own thing.

The thing is, we now freedive in our own groups. We go to Dahab, Greece or Nice in our groups and we rarely get together. This has fragmented our relationships with each other and as Sam suggests (not quite between the lines), there appears to be some frustration upset and maybe even purposeful lack of support to each others events. I am only guessing that perhaps Salt Free members do not get involved much with the BFA, and likewise, there was whole bunch of people missing from the last Salt Free comp. Someone else is upset with Emma or Marcus or Sam and I am sure I get my fair share of people disagreeing with some of my views.

I think we believe we dont need each other. We are all wrong.

atomichaggis said:

Year on year record numbers of Brits are moving abroad...

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That's becaue the UK has it's problems. That's a fact, and i'm not going to be one to deny it. But that's no reason to go slagging off our freedivers! Or our lack of them. Freediving itself is not widely recognised and it's only because of certain films (like Le Grand Bleu) that many frenchies have heard of it themselves. (I know the French hadn't be brought into it but it seems when I go there that quite a few people know who Mayhol is, although I do stay in a little fishing village.)

Which brings me to another point, there are more freedivers and spearfishers on the coast where it isn't even necessarily though of as a sport. It's just something that many people do. You can't go making such grand judgements on the UK freediving community when you visit only a few times in the damn year! What do you honestly know?

Who cares about 'drawing the crowds'? Freediving isn't supposed to be a shallow commercialised thrill. It's something extremely personal and god knows that many people in the UK are not suited to such a relaxing and beautiful sport. I'm so glad that most people don't know about it because it means when I talk to that minoirty who take an interest in it, I know it's a keen interest. Not some junk that someone pretends to know and care about.

Also I think your comment about 'showcasing' the freediving talent is a bastard thing to say even if it was a joke.

You say that

atomichaggis said:

I am a 'British subject' and one that was never impressed by the sport whilst living there.

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Well who's fault is that?

Who says that to have a great freediving community you need to have 'great' freedivers. Sara, Emma, Liv, Sam etc are all amazing but isn't it enough just to live the freediving lifestyle? Isn't it enough to want to be a freediver and take part as often as you can? To want to be in the ocean and improve your abilities? Do you actually have to have national and world record champs in order to have sexy freedivers?

I don't think so. As long as we have people out in the ocean or in the pools, just enjoying being in the water and fanatising about holding their breath then i'm happy to live in this country. And I think you're extremely shallow to base your whole idea of a countried freediving worthiness on the number of people taking part in the sport. In fact having ago at any UK sport is an awful thing to do. These things are a lifelong passion for most of the sports people, why would you want to challenge that? What gives you the right to offend these people when they care about something so much? Do you really think they would care if they were the only person to be doing it?

If you haven't got anything useful or nice to say about how to get of our AMAZING UK freedivers into a competiton they don't say anything at all.

Haydn - as always some very good points

The only thing I would argue with is that SaltFree does not in general have a problem with the BFA, I'm on the committee and have been for a long time. The BFA gave some sponsorship to the SaltFree comp this year and everyone who entered was required to join. If not many SaltFree people had entered the pool comp its probably because most SaltFree'ers are depth junkies and not many do any pool training. SaltFree also work much better now with No Tanx and have quite a few people diving with us who have "grown out" of Wraysbury (No Tanx) training ground, and still do lots of pool training with No Tanx. We've even had a few who trained at Vobster (arch rivals in quite a fun pantomime sort of way!).

The glory days weren't really that much better. Howard was in Plymouth, Richmond was in London and that was about it. Lee Donnelly and Rodin were role models/idols but now Dave King dives deeper than either of them on a fried breakfast without have trained for 2 years.... Cyprus was fab but it only happened twice and lost such hideous amounts of money that no-one would think of doing it again. Now there are far more active clubs in the UK than there were then. I'm aware of pockets of freedivers in London (various places not just Richmond), SaltFree, Vobster, Dorothea, Manchester, Capernwray, Cornwall and a few other places besides.

This makes it all the more difficult to understand why people aren't entering competitions. It isn't the price of a medical - that's always been a factor and always will be. It's AIDA rules and anyone running a competition would be nuts not to include it. Every serious freediver I know has a medical as a matter of course once a year - I'd advise anyone diving regularly to do that. £60 a year (or less if you are lucky) is a small price to pay to be sure that you haven't damaged your hearing, heart, lungs, nervous system doing all the crazy stuff we do - and it has the added side effect of allowing you to then enter comps!

I think it might be worth JM/Matt/Me and anyone else who's been involved in organising comps in the UK recently to draw up a list of people we thought would enter, and then didn't and then to contact them and ask for some honest feedback on why not. Maybe we'll learn something we can use in the future.

Maybe, of course, there just isn't a call for competitions here. In that case, we either say, ok only 8 people want to compete, how can we organise it so we can afford to host it for 8 people (which I'd certainly try and do, I needed 15 entries to run SaltFree Double Dip without a loss this year, we ran it with 13) AND/OR we decide that comps aren't what the British freedivers want and try and lay on something that they do.....

for that, you need to watch the SaltFree website... we have a few other ideas up our sleeve for next year (and indeed the winter too..)

S

and thanks to Alix too - I agree with every word.

Well, I appreciate your efforts Sam. Its a good point to insist on BFA membership, I didnt know that. I dont know what you are concerned about with a few of the BFA decisions and its a bit trite to suggest that we should just accept them, even if we disagree. It seems that when anybody tries to do something positive, other people may approve or not, they may support or not, they may accept decisions or not. The thing is, more people should support Salt Free AND the BFA AND the comps AND any other initiative any body else trys to accomplish, rather than ignore them or complain about them and then settle just for their own little groups activities.

I believe we should all support as much as we can, any event that any of us tries to make happen. Even if we dont like to compete, we should still attend even if it costs more than its actually worth in petrol etc. We need to get the family feel again. We should renew our friendships and move the sport forward.

I wish I had my medical, I would love to get wet again in a comp, even if I were to come last I wouldnt care less.

The good news is the doc says he is now prepared to give me a medical exam but wants to consult the surgeon first about my diaphram and include a few extra tests, so I might get to freedive again soon. And even if I am rubbish, it will be good to know at least I am mended, its been too long.

Good luck with that Haydn, wish you all the best.

Some good positive points, i'm sure we can get a pool and open water comp running next year between us. I think its time for a UK championships again, Howard did excellent but the Salt Free comps are run very well also. Last years pool comp was very professional and good to catch up with and also meet a few new people. Maybe somehow tie the two in. I would be willing to get a few people to commit for next year once dates are set for sure. There is interest up here but a few of the divers are still finding their feet but some great potential.

I just don't think there was many people up for it this year, there is still some excellent divers here in the UK and representing us abroad and a few on the sidelines waiting to pounce when that trophy is up for grabs and some up and coming.

Lets get it on

Laters

Alix,

Lets get a few things straight. You are preaching to the choir. I presently have an appreciation and respect for all those involved in freediving in the UK be it competitive, recreational or spearos. I know there are many talented athletes and plain old enthusiasts involved with British freediving.

I was responding to the suggestion that there has been a lack of interest there or motivation to participate in the UK. If that lack of interest is not a problem for You and you wish to keep freediving your own little secret then What I said is irrelevant (just ignore it).
If the growth of feeediving in the UK is important to you then what I said should be at least heeded or constructively rebutted... it was deliberately critical for the sake of debate, not an attack on British freediving (only the cricket) or the people who are the lifeblood of it so no need to get your panties in a bunch... come off the back foot, I'm not attacking You.

The stuff I said is pretty much how a lot of people in the UK who aren't currently interested in freediving see it (prove Me wrong). whether You are cool or sexy is of no importance to Me (or anyone already diving)... but it might just be to the growth of the sport, no?
Creating a buzz will eventually lead to more people in competitions and that was essentially My point.


P.S. My criticisms of British society and attitudes is pretty much My own opinion tho.

It's great to read some more of the more positive posts. It takes 5 minutes to criticise the British Freediving community but a whole lot more time and effort to actually do something positive. I could comment that Norway’s newest recruit is UK free diving’s gain but it would not be constructive.
Hadyn’s point about us losing the family feeling is 100% correct. I sometimes feel like we are fast becoming the product of a broken home. Back in the very early days there were just free divers. It didn't matter if you were a Saltfree-er, a CP-er or even a No Tanker! We were all just part of a tiny free diving community and then clubs and formalised training came along and things started to change. In many ways for the better, but sometimes commercial interest took precedence over growing our sport organically.
I am not for one moment suggesting that we cease the commercial side of the sport because it is necessary to progress. What I am saying is that, when, it comes to discussing the future of free diving events in the UK, we should all try and be positive and not just criticise others to gain some space on this thread.
I for one would love every one to work together but in the old way, when people gave their time freely to assist others to achieve their aims. There are so many ways to help out, you can enter or assist at an event, get more involved with the BFA or just go free diving without slagging off people who try to raise the profile of our very small sport.
I would like to remind every one that there will be a short static apnea piece on prime time, terrestrial TV on Saturday 6th October, ITV1 17:30

Not that any of this concerns me, but I see such great potential in UK freediving. You got history, good sites, good diligent people working tirelessly, great athletes, media attention, a good solid organization, active clubs...

Have you ever organized diving events for just the sake of gathering all the "family". I mean not necessarily a competition, but something less formal. Just get everybody in the same place and have some informal, dive related, fun.

Give you an example, we have for 2 years in a row organized a 24h dynamic relay "world record" attempt. Not very serious, rules are simply all travel must be under water without breathing equipment. Style is free, participation is voluntary etc, no bureaucracy...You just show up, swim as much as you like and enjoy the company.

This event has proven to be a huge success. We have had people coming in that previously had absolutely no interest in freediving at all, but the bar is so low (no minimum distance is required) that we've had participants from 12 to over 60 years with various levels of experience. Some dive 12 meters, others 100.

Anyway, the point is, this event always creates a great spirit and people from different clubs and backgrounds come together. We meet new people, recruit new people and have great fun.

Just an idea - from a complete outsider

Which reminds me - hmm, is that happening this year? Gotta make a few inquiries...

P.S only while reading this thread and writing the post above did I realize the true value of that event...Gotta make it happen again.

Cheeky monkey! rofl

P.S. Club politics ain't sexy

jome said:

Not that any of this concerns me, but I see such great potential in UK freediving. You got history, good sites, good diligent people working tirelessly, great athletes, media attention, a good solid organization, active clubs...

Have you ever organized diving events for just the sake of gathering all the "family". I mean not necessarily a competition, but something less formal. Just get everybody in the same place and have some informal, dive related, fun.

Give you an example, we have for 2 years in a row organized a 24h dynamic relay "world record" attempt. Not very serious, rules are simply all travel must be under water without breathing equipment. Style is free, participation is voluntary etc, no bureaucracy...You just show up, swim as much as you like and enjoy the company.

This event has proven to be a huge success. We have had people coming in that previously had absolutely no interest in freediving at all, but the bar is so low (no minimum distance is required) that we've had participants from 12 to over 60 years with various levels of experience. Some dive 12 meters, others 100.

Anyway, the point is, this event always creates a great spirit and people from different clubs and backgrounds come together. We meet new people, recruit new people and have great fun.

Just an idea - from a complete outsider

Which reminds me - hmm, is that happening this year? Gotta make a few inquiries...

P.S only while reading this thread and writing the post above did I realize the true value of that event...Gotta make it happen again.

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Community spirit, no politics, Egos left on the bank, big event, lots of fun... blindingly obvious really...
If that happens in the UK anytime soon then I'll eat My hat... well, no I won't but I'll eat My words and jump in the fjord in My boxers or something.

Sorry Norway, from the whole of the UK

See ya

The British, for me, have always been very passionate about their sports, take football or now the F1 races, (they have always had good racers). Curiously though, I think the spirit is exemplified by astronomy. It's a country covered by clouds most of the year, but probably one that has the most amateur astronomers per capita than most other countries with much clearer skies. Meaning that difficult conditions are no impediment once there is a genuine interest developing. Consider the harsh conditions for freediving there, cloudy wet days, cold seas, strong tides and generally bad vis - and yet there you are, pushing forward your sport, never better said, against wind and tide. So my hat's off to British, Welch, Scottish and Irish freedivers and spearos, your numbers are going up and soon you will have a large enough critical mass to be able to hold regular well attended competitions.

Adrian said:

The British, for me, have always been very passionate about their sports, take football or now the F1 races, (they have always had good racers). Curiously though, I think the spirit is exemplified by astronomy. It's a country covered by clouds most of the year, but probably one that has the most amateur astronomers per capita than most other countries with much clearer skies. Meaning that difficult conditions are no impediment once there is a genuine interest developing. Consider the harsh conditions for freediving there, cloudy wet days, cold seas, strong tides and generally bad vis - and yet there you are, pushing forward your sport, never better said, against wind and tide. So my hat's off to British, Welch, Scottish and Irish freedivers and spearos, your numbers are going up and soon you will have a large enough critical mass to be able to hold regular well attended competitions.

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*does a little dance for the uk*
We have a tough time and we love it!

For the record I was hoping to attend this event as I really enjoyed the double dip and hope to return to it next year again. I could not attend as its Nicola's birthday that weekend (shes turning 30 but don't tell any one shes pissed off about it)originally I heard it was to be in September. Inmho medical cost is not an issue nor really the cost of the event if you are travelling from abroad another 10 pounds would not make a huge difference in the overall scheme of things if it helped the organisers break even. As a relative outsider I did get the family feeling at the dip and there were plenty of people there who were not regular saltfree attendees. This was one of the overiding reasons i went to meet other freedivers and see them competing and see what i could learn from them.

One point that I have noticed that seeme new to me. I have been reading diving magazines for 6 years Dive, Diver and Sport diver as I have been a scubie for a while. Its really only in the past 2 years that it seems they have some mention of freediving every month whether its about a new record set by Liv or Sara or a journalist actually attending a course. Before this we might get a mention every few months. If an article about a course is published there usually is a contact address but with the recent
records set I didn,t always see a contact address or maybe I just missed it. I think the vast majority of scubies respect what freedivers do and have a curiosity about it.
Just asking were these magazines contacted to cover these comps? Maybe they were and weren't interested? If the overall profile is raised it might help the organisers actually make a few pound or at least let them break even.

I know I only started this freediving this year but I really would like to do some competitions, I only really push myself if there is an air of competition.

The reason I didn't enter this one is because there is no pool training in my part of the world so I only do depth stuff at Chepstow, I haven't done static since I did my 2* course and my local swimmiing pool get upset if you do whole lengths underwater too often.

Having said that its a real shame this has been canned and I now wish I had signed up for it = it would have been an experience even if I had only done 1 length of the pool and matched my previous PB on static.
Next year - I'll do it.