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The Snorkel...always IN or OUT sort of On and OFF?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Do you dive with snorkel in or out?

  • Snorkel in

    Votes: 28 17.6%

  • snorkel out

    Votes: 131 82.4%
  • Total voters
    159
Very good discussion. I have tried most variations of this sport over a sixty year period and now I remove the snorkel before I dive, almost always but.....

Just to add a little fuel for thought. Twice, I have regained consciousness while spearfishing alone, on the surface, face down, snorkel in, no weight belt and no memory after leaving the bottom (around 15 meters). I was taught to spit out the snorkel during the descent (to not scare fish), replace it during ascent and if in doubt, remove the weight belt (7-10 kilos) and hand carry it to the surface.

We also had a diver in a meet that blacked out and spent at least 10 minutes on the surface, face down and snorkel in. He was easily awakened and looked and acted normal. Apparently that had been done once before by another spearfishing competitor.
 
Reactions: foxfish
lucky guy...
you replaced the snorkel during ascent and had those few moments of semi-consciousness to clear it at the right time

that remembers me my only BO, during a DNF comp, when i thought "ok, now let's turn and get out immediately, i'm still fine"
well, i turned in perfect style, got out clear and then blacked out, but i blacked out muche before emerging, as i dont' remember my turn in any way
 
Luck?, or is there more to it? Replacing the snorkel on ascent goes against the common wisdom, but maybe there is something here worth thinking about.

Seems to me that Bill, and maybe some of his buddies, very likely would not be here if he had been surfacing snorkel out. That is a powerful argument to think carefully about this issue.

Freediving is chock full of instances where the common wisdom was flat wrong. Examples: not so long ago scientist could provide lots of very rational reasons why freedivers could never go deeper than something like 40 m. People thought Seb Murat was nuts and some "experts" in the diving medicine world gave him a very hard time about his FRC diving. In both cases, and many more, the common wisdom was based on an incomplete understanding of physiology(among other things).

Snorkel in/snorkel out? I dive snorkel out most of the time, but for spearfishing, I'm not at all convinced that is the safest thing all the time.

Connor
 
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Reactions: REVAN
One small comment. Now I believe it is far safer not to put the snorkel back in before surfacing.
 
cdavis said:
Luck?, or is there more to it?
Click to expand...

Hi Connor,
in my opinion, there's nothing more than luck

always in my opinion, it might be safe to replace the snorkel during ascent or even keeping it in for the whole dive if you PLAN to black out AND be clear minded enough to clear it at the right time AND you're sure nothing else would happen but what you planned

FOR ME, too many things must come together at one time and if you happen to be lucky enough to live Bill's experience more than once, then you're either blessed or (more probably, i think) a bit insane AND recidivist
in few words, i would never ever teach something like that

in addition, reading Bill's experience i guess he was spearing all alone, one more thing that must be avoided and a thing that i personally only do while snorkeling up to 10m
but this is another story and shouldn't even be a personal opinion but a real matter of fact

cheers
 
snorkel out and i resurface on my back, ..

but i understand your considerations:

- it also depends on the safety briefing and drills to/for yourself, everybody should think about this, carefully

out of experience

wolf
 
fflupo said:
snorkel out and i resurface on my back, ..
Click to expand...

don't be sure about that: 90% of the cases, maybe more, resurface face down

for me the thing is not blacking out
there is no dive worth a life and no fish as well
 
I think this is deep conditioning. Obviously it would be suicidal to count on it - but if you make a point of always surfacing the same way - with a specific protocol - it becomes deep habit and you may do it even as you are losing consciousness. For me it is partial exhale, then inhale and hold.
 
x2 ,when ever i see sombody freedivng with the snorkel in , it just looks wrong , not to mention sloopy ,,,, Joe


C3Diver said:
Black-out aside, I like diving without my snorkel in my mouth to avoid the noise of air bubbles escaping from the snorkel.
Click to expand...
 
Once more, if anyone, no matter what their qualifications are, wants to agree, disagree or add to the discussion, I would like to read the comments.
 
i think i made a list of the advantages of no snorkel once here on DB, but will try to remember:

- less chance of water inhalation during contractions
- better chance of effective laryngospasm after BO
- first breath easier to take on surfacing (no clearing, forced or not, and subsequent rapid reduction in pressure)
- less bubbles to scare fish
- more relaxed mouth/face/throat reduces O2 consumption and improves equalization
- more hydrodynamic
- less likely to get hooked up in caves and weed etc
- looks more aquatic (cool points)

I have probably forgotten some points.. please fill in..
 
Personally I used to keep the snorkel in, forcibly clearing it on surfacing. For some reason that I can't recall I tried diving with taking the snorkel out. I found the dive easier, as I wasn't concentrating on keeping the snorkel in my mouth and keeping water out. I also found that I could psychologically dive for longer as I wasn't thinking about leaving a cushion for clearing the snorkel.
 
Luck?? 3, maybe 4, specific instances of snorkel/in spearfishing BOs and what amounts to self recovery, just in this thread, is not likely to be luck. Can't say exactly what is going on, but it seems reasonable to conclude the the snorkel in/out question is more complicated than it looks like. I think Fondueset is right, a snorkel/in spearo can get deeply conditioned to clear the snorkel and start breathing, concious or not. If that is the main factor, it probably lets me out; I'm no longer conditioned for strickly snorkel in, rather the opposite.

I always wondered whether I could have B0ed, recovered and not known it. In my serious spearo past, I pushed way beyond the edge, way too many times. I really should not be here.

Anybody else know of any instances of snorkel/in B0 and self recovery?

Connor
 
cdavis said:
Luck?? 3, maybe 4, specific instances of snorkel/in spearfishing BOs and what amounts to self recovery, just in this thread, is not likely to be luck.
Click to expand...
i sincerely hope we don't have many more instances because of the bad side of it

i wonder: are some spearos talking about this kind of advantage for "snorkel in" just to justify BOs?
i remember an article by Gabriele Del Bene, a great italian sparfishing champion and spearfishing instructor, who described his "snorkel in" philosophy calling it the "total safety maneuvre", saying WHEN (and not IF) the spearo blacks out and has snorkel in then... blah blah... the same things we said here

this is the thing that makes me shiver: sometimes the ones who prefer "snorkel in" seem to consider BO as a natural and frequent thing (not that this is the DB spearos thoughts, i mean, nor yours, Connor)

this is what comes in my own mind, of course, but i also think i'm not wrong
 
My point is that any technique you deeply condition yourself to has a better chance of holding over into semi-or even unconsciousness. By this reasoning it would include a controlled partial exhale and hold with snorkel out.

I might be wrong - but its my understanding this is a way to grab some 02 quickly - before the typical surface blackout - so that even if there is a mild blackout recovery will be quick due to the 02 level rising.

It seems that snorkel in might be a liability during a sub-surface blackout. But I'm not sure how much of a role the mouth being closed plays in avoiding aspirating water - since the throat constricts as well. As I understand it you really want to avoid letting a blacked out person sink - at all - because this can allow water to enter the lungs which creates a medical emergency - especially in salt water. I'm wondering if the snork in makes that a little more likely.

Sgnips - everyone I know of who's had an open water blackout was pretty freaked out. Its hard to imagine anyone considering that normal.

Here's Colin's intense story - with complications from aspiration.

SWB Story

And one of Ted's - well told

Ted's BO Story
 
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Fondueset said:
Sgnips - everyone I know of who's had an open water blackout was pretty freaked out. Its hard to imagine anyone considering that normal.
Click to expand...
i agree, it's hard, but i can assure you would be astonished reading that article
unfortunately it has no english version and i don't have much time to translate it, but as i get some i'll surely do
 
interesting thread, neatly coinciding with my reading yesterday about why to not force-exhale on surfacing ! i have a LOT to learn clearly. thanks for the knowledge here.

incidentally, why are some snorkels marketed at spearfishermen not supplied with mask clips ? i'd just forget (or lose) my snorkel more often without one, i reckon...
 
I have this snorkel too, very nice design, very functional and comfortable snorkel.
 
Iìm wondering whether there's more drag keeping the snorkel in instead of holding it in your hands in front of your head. Snorkel in may be on option in no-fin dives, but with fins I don't feel that much advantage....Is there any research on that ?
 
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