The Snorkel...always IN or OUT sort of On and OFF?

[REVAN]

We had a guy BO during UWR pretty badly (was out on the bottom for :30 sec+ before he was noticed - freak situation) and he had his snorkel in his mouth as is normal in the sport.

When he was surfaced, he was clamped down so hard on the mouthpiece that we couldn't pry / pull it out....

Can anyone explain to me why the jaw would clamp down during a BO event? Is this something that always happens, sometimes happens; what's going on there?

What about when there is no snorkel in the mouth? Is it still clenched shut then? If so, at what point in the recovery does it relax and open up again?

Is this jaw clenching during BO an understood phenomena?

 

[cdavis]

I think its part of larynospasm(sp?) that closes the larynx during BO. For sure, its common. In my limited experience(snorkel out), both are clamped tight. Most snorkels are soft enough that they would be closed tight if in(if that makes any difference.)

 

[artiz]

Can anyone explain to me why the jaw would clamp down during a BO event? Is this something that always happens, sometimes happens; what's going on there?

What about when there is no snorkel in the mouth? Is it still clenched shut then? If so, at what point in the recovery does it relax and open up again?

Is this jaw clenching during BO an understood phenomena?

You would have to consult the extensive writings of Frank Pia Revan... he's probably the person who has researched autonomic reactions when drowning more than anybody else... but I'm not sure if he's looked specifically at the phenomena of submerged blackout's-drowning-teeth clenching... it's probably safe to assume that they are related in some way!

 

[Apneaddict]

And with one of the double-tube loop-snorkels made with a plastic-T... With "bite tabs", I suspect you could do some damage and / or break some teeth. I made a prototype with a rubber mouthpiece, but haven't gotten around to testing it yet.

Regardless - not an issue if you spit the mouthpiece before diving.

As mentioned above, the clenching made the logistics of rescue-breaths very difficult / impossible. Even if you could get the BO'd diver's head above water quickly, you could actually blow water into the lungs!

At least with a snorkel-less mouth, you could do a mouth-to-mouth and get SOME air in to try to relieve the spasm.

 

[artiz]

Regardless - not an issue if you spit the mouthpiece before diving.

Interesting to know whether you clench your teeth during a BO anyway or whether it's more to do with having something in your mouth/between your teeth... when I was younger and pushing the limits I tended to go through quite a few bite tabs on my snorkels... but I don't seem to do that anymore?

 

[cdavis]

AA, Not sure the logic follows all that well. If the jaw,larnyx, and lips are shut, you can't do rescue breaths. From what I've heard, this can be a problem with rescue breaths, snorkel out. It would be as well, snorkel in, with the additional danger of blowing water contained in the snorkel into the lungs(if you managed a successful rescue breath.)

 

[Apneaddict]

Clench your teeth and try to exhale through them.

You CAN get some air through.

 

[artiz]

AA, Not sure the logic follows all that well. If the jaw,larnyx, and lips are shut, you can't do rescue breaths. From what I've heard, this can be a problem with rescue breaths, snorkel out. It would be as well, snorkel in, with the additional danger of blowing water contained in the snorkel into the lungs(if you managed a successful rescue breath.)

Connor... I was thinking more about Revans previous comments about not really knowing whether you have actually BO'd or not... whether certain/limited brain functions have shut down/kicked in without you actually realising it! Particulalry when you are younger, fitter and more likely to dismiss perhaps? Very interesting thread!

 

[artiz]

Clench your teeth and try to exhale through them.

You CAN get some air through.

That certainly makes a lot of sense and as regards the clear stresses and stricter buddy convention of freediving... 'snorkel out' seems on balance safer and perhaps even for spearfishing too... and yet from a praticable view popping that thing out every time when hunting (mostly alone) doesn't do it for me... I've tried and I can't/won't maintain it... even now with my twin loop snorkels. However when I know I'm going deeper I do let it pop out which seems to work well for me... nice to have the (loop) convenience and all the options... and yet floating (not fully) concious to the surface face down, alone, with your snorkel still in seems expedient too... can't say it's ever happened to me... but then again would I actually know?

 

[REVAN]

And with one of the double-tube loop-snorkels made with a plastic-T... With "bite tabs", I suspect you could do some damage and / or break some teeth....

I had taken to using a custom fit mouth guard or dental guard (whatever they are called) when using my snorkel. It seemed like a strange idea at first, but it actually made those "bite tabs" on my homemade snorkel the most comfortable snorkel I have ever used. All other snorkels I have ever used eventually rub sore spots on my gums from the rubber flange, but this arrangement is something I can wear almost indefinitely. I think the mouth guard would do a good job protecting my teeth in the event of a BO induced clenched jaw. Either way, I think that is not the primary concern if that situation were taking place.

 

[minnow]

Hi All

as a new diver I often find myself latched on to my snorkel like a baby latches onto a pacifier, usually when I'm in a stressful or uncomfortable situation, say when there's water in my snork or I'm having contractions, LoL, I almost bit the tabs off it once when a seal popped out of the gloom , subconsciously I seem to sort of think of it as my lifeline to the surface, I kinda wonder if this may be why someone in the process of passing out might clench his/her teeth on their snorkel.

at the moment I'm working on getting in the habit of take my breath, remove my snorkel, equalize, dive. and on arriving back at the surface I quickly take about 1/3rd of a breath, go horizontal, put my snorkel back in my mouth, and carry on from there.

the frenzel is sooooooooo much easier without my snorkel plugged into my face.

Stay Safe

minno

 

[artiz]

My latest 3D printable twin pipe snorkel regulator... you can pull this out of clenched teeth if necessary...

​

 

[Matt Elkins]

Out out out

 

[truaninja]

I don't like to dive with a snorkel at all. I'm more comfortable in the water without it.

 

[Matthew Elkins]

Take it out your body has protective reflexes that happen when you blackout to keep you from drowning one is called a laryngospasam this happens when you blackout underwater after the involuntary release of air and is the tightening of your vocal cords to keep water from entering into your lungs and with a snorkel in can prevent this from happening causing a funnel for water to enter into your lungs is the shortest and easiest way to explain this. I have taken many different freediving classes and levels including a couple Advanced freediving safety classes to be a safety for deep Dives in competitions.and dude that's like day one stuff ,fish or a old habbit is not worth your life,maybe this helps , peace. And good diving