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The Snorkel...always IN or OUT sort of On and OFF?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Do you dive with snorkel in or out?

  • Snorkel in

    Votes: 28 17.6%

  • snorkel out

    Votes: 131 82.4%
  • Total voters
    159
Good thread which needs reviving?

I'm an old spearo with some early scuba experience and much like cdavis I believe its a conclusive case of 'horses for courses'.
I can see that it's probably safer 'pipe out' for freediving and also when pushing personal limits... but its mostly IN for me. I have tried a few times over the years to 'spit out' but always return seamlessly to what I'm most comfortable with. I also found a flapping snorkel irritating and impractical... trying to shove it in my belt or holding it in my hand was even more impracticable?
When I need air quick the pipe is out... needs must! When I'm hunting, which is most of the time I will always surface slowly and quietly and definitely not with my mouth first... as has been mentioned I need to continue tracking my quarry below so continually spitting my pipe out and putting it back in just doesn't crack it for me.
Having said all that I'm actually training my son to spit out and mainly because it 'seems' marginally safer... but mostly because he has watched all you disciples of the 'snorkel spit' on youtube.

Last point is regarding the DIY loop snorkel idea. Also the Powerbreather (below) uses the double pipe construction. (originally posted by Apneaddict & Gab on a recent thread here)


I kind of like both of these ideas... just not the execution of either.
Convenient for spitting out and hanging below your chin... no flapping, holding or holstering snorkel... some hydrodynamics... but equally convenient for keeping in... and a retro look of course?

They don't make em like they used too!
However the real point is could these or other similar innovations become 'game-changers' regarding this dualist & restrictive 'always in or always out' debate? Besides why not use a combination of both when safety, circumstances or style dictates!

 
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Reactions: foxfish
Ron recently posted a thread where he explains his dual tube snorkel: http://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/very-cool-diy-dual-tube-snorkel-for-about-6.97796/

Regarding the other discussion, I'm mostly a freediver so I often don't use a snorkel at all and if I do I always put it out of my mouth. Simply because when I surface I take three recovery breaths and for those it's passive exhale, active inhale and not active exhale. And this way also ensure that on my inhale there won't be any water entering my mouth which could cause me to cough, something that should be avoided.
 
Ron's innovation is outstanding and an excellent starting point for creating a slim, lightweight, hydrodynamic, dual pipe snorkel which could be particularly well suited for both hunting and freediving and subsequently both spitting out or keeping in. There are some clear differences/requirements between us that Azrael3000 (+ others) highlight but freediving and spearfishing also obviously have much crossover and common ground. Primarily it's broad discussions like these that can move us forward regarding shared equipment like snorkels and with innovators, thoughtful contributions and general agreement could be made considerably better for all of us? I for one have still not found the perfect snorkel after 35 years of looking and far too much money to mention... IMO they are ALL not quite up to the task... and yet for me it may well be one of the most important pieces of my equipment... especially as I get older.

Following on from Ron's design I found a retro curved double pipe mouthpiece for $15-£9.50 (+post)...
These mouth pieces are also suitable for some kind of one way valve configuration which the Powerbreather also uses... one placed where the logo (image above) is situated for purging and one at the exit point on top of your head perhaps (dry snorkel)... or indeed a simple non-valve version with thinner internal diameter hose. These hoses appear to need some thought and personal research/preference but possibly the slimmer the better and perhaps reinforced and flexible/corrugated... but also maybe just smooth, semi-rigid and hydrodynamic like Ron's? The starting point will probably be your mouthpiece choice and its own particular dimensions... but not having to glue anything would be a definite advantage.

Some kind of T piece (heat moulded to shape) on the top of your head could be easily attached with snorkel loops to your mask straps and a rigid extension pipe fitted on the last junction of the T piece situated on the back/top of your head? The main aim being to have my snorkel mouth piece hanging directly under my chin, being both hydrodynamic (not flapping around) and convenient for putting back in.

More than happy to be 'shot down in flames' but would much prefer suggestions, guidance and advice?
P.S. Estimated costs of everything above dependent on choices is probably going to be between £20-£40 ($30-$50)...ish
 
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I loved Ron's idea, but am put off by the mouthpiece, so I have not made one yet.


Is the double pipe mouthpiece above off an old double hose regulater? Is it for sale somewhere? Are the hose opening small enough to adapt to the size tubing that Ron used?

Don't think the corrugated hose will work well too much drag, and if it is inside the tube, very difficult to clear. There is so little bend in the hoses, you should not need corrugations.
 
Reactions: artiz

Having only come across Ron's video a few days ago I really wanted to pursue alternatives for his mouth piece... you really can't criticize a $6 project but I wondered if I could give mark ll a respectful try using a slightly higher budget... save my teeth too! I also really liked his concept and together with being a qualified designer and always looking out for the perfect snorkel... I now can't leave it alone.
My first demand valve was exactly the same as the yellow double hose Mistral regulator which I posted above, bought in a second-hand shop when I was 13... James Bond & Jaques Cousteau have a lot to answer for?
So I found a few vintage scuba sites who now reproduce the silicone/rubber spares for old regulators... only in the USA though... couldn't find any UK based?
I think you are probably correct regarding corrugation but if you have a look at these sites (VintageDoubleHose.com and VintageScubaSupply.com, Vintagedoublehoseparts.net - some cheaper than others) the hoses come ready made and in the correct diameter to tightly fit the all important double hose mouthpieces.... more suited to the one way valve set ups perhaps? However the dimension/diameter to note is an inch... so yes a semi-rigid pipe similar to Ron's which is now 1" (25mm) outer diameter but with the same bore or inner diameter (3/8"-9.5mm) and perhaps black in colour... would be ideal. The straight mouthpiece below will be more suitable for this kind of straightforward set up?

 
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Two things are important, 1: inside diameter and 2: fit at the mouth piece. the inside diameter needs to be small enough to clear easily, big enough to breath easily and the tubing must fit smoothly enough into the mouth piece so that it doesn't trap water when cleared. I don't remember Ron's dimensions, but that mouthpiece looks like the tubing ihas to be pretty big. I know Ron's works and my experience with a beloved Farallon big barrel suggests that it is possible to go bigger, but how much?
 
Reactions: artiz
Could not find a double hose mouth piece in the sites you listed. Could you supply a link?

Those sites are a kick. Saw a bunch of things that were among my first gear. Couple of regs that I didn't get rid of until a recently. Had no idea people valued that stuff.
 

All of Ron's dimensions & details are on his thread here.

The inner diameter or bore he uses is 3/8" (9.5-10mm).

I have now found (locally) a 10mm bore black laborotory grade rubber tubing with an outer diameter of 24mm which should be a reasonable fit... if allowing for a 1.4mm layer of decent glue. They also list a 12.5mm bore with a 29.5mm outer diameter which may also fit the straight mouthpiece (if it stretches) even more tightly... and (possibly) without glue? I'm waiting for a reply regarding the $15 dollar straight mouthpiece and UK postage... the $25 dollar one can't be shipped out of Florida until after the 18th November (now ordered)... I'll try both hose sizes when I finally get my hands on one!

Much thanks cdavis for all your invaluable help and guidance!

Double hose mouthpiece link $15
Double hose mouthpiece link $25
 
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You are a better internet searcher than me. Thanks for the links.

The curved mouth piece looks like it would work better from a streamlining point of view, inside diameter looks ok, should work. Possible problem is the OD. Its very large relative to Ron's and might be a drag issue. Also, tubing with very thick walls may not bend easy enough for this application. Have to try it to find out.

If drag is an issue, how could you/me used smaller OD tubing and build something to smooth the corners inside the mouthpiece? This works very well with air flow inside ducts, should work well for water as well. I'm going to let my subconsious work on this one.


One possible issue. The inside of the mouth piece is fairly large volume. That, combined with the tubing ID might be enough to be difficult to clear. Not sure at all.


Hmm, already have the germ of an idea. Take a PVC plug, drill it for the smaller tubing OD and smooth the other end. It would both smooth the water flow and reduce the inside volume.

enough ideas to test.
 
Reactions: artiz

Definitely like the PVC plug idea, anything that reduces the internal volume of the mouthpiece will make purging that much easier. Another possibility could be to reduce the ID of the (straight) mouthpiece by cutting/slicing and re-bonding directly around the pipe... but I'm not so keen on that. However your idea also opens the possibility of constructing a mouthpiece from a suitable old snorkel and dramatically reducing costs by cutting (squarely) the oval plastic mount off (arrowed as 4 below) which the oval silicone mouthpiece attaches too and then re-attaching directly to Ron's 9/16 OD pipe after a bit of shaping and a good bonding glue... perhaps even a couple of small self tapping screws would help? This obviously creates a weak point I'm trying to avoid in the design but nonetheless if skilfully executed its another compelling solution? Please keep the ideas and suggestions coming though... particularly whilst I'm waiting for all my parts to arrive.
 
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the "old snorkel" idea is a good one, just have to find the right combination of parts to fit together. 5200 should work well as a glue, sticks to most things (especially if you rough up the surface) and is extremely strong with decent flex.
 
Another idea would be to design the part we need with CAD software and have it 3d printed. There are websites where you submit the design and they print it out for you and mail it.
 
Reactions: Apneaddict and artiz
Gab said:
Another idea would be to design the part we need with CAD software and have it 3d printed. There are websites where you submit the design and they print it out for you and mail it.
Click to expand...

This really is a very good idea Gab. The CAD (3D) design below comes with a downloadable file (after sign-up)? Face mask not required of course? I found this on a CAD site where you ask for designs to be sent in for a guaranteed prize... this single hose example was $80 and designed for people who have impaired muscle coordination? Any interested CAD designers out there?

 
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Nice ideas. When i feel i'm out of breath on the way up, if take it out of my mouth so that i don't have to blow the water out of the snorkel before breathing in.
 
Al
Always snorkel out. Otherwise you have open airway and water have way easier access to your lungs. And that's always bad thing.
Vaclav
 
I take my snorkel out when I spearfish, but it does mean I get a mouthful of water upon surfacing with some regularity, especially if there is a lot of chop.

Not really sold on the idea of snorkel out being substantially safer. It'd only be safer in situations where you black out and assume a face-up position that would allow you to breathe spontaneously. It'd be less safe in situations where you take a single breath while conscious and then black out, because in that case you'd generally lie forward. I'd say self recovery in either of those scenarios is possible but uncommon.
 
We had a guy BO during UWR pretty badly (was out on the bottom for :30 sec+ before he was noticed - freak situation) and he had his snorkel in his mouth as is normal in the sport.

When he was surfaced, he was clamped down so hard on the mouthpiece that we couldn't pry / pull it out.

It made surfacing him on his back a problem... Because the snorkel was in the water.

We would have to separate the tube from the mouthpiece by pulling or cutting with shears / knife.

Even still, it would be a problem to administer safety breaths with the mouthpiece in on land... Let alone in the pool... Not to mention if it was wavy open-water.

This guy did end up sucking in a bit of water... But difficult to say if it was directly related to the snorkel or just because he was blacked out and convulsing underwater for so long.

If you're using a close buddy system and you've practiced rescues, removing weights, masks, cheek tapping and rescue breaths like you should... In the heat of an actual BO event, the clamped down snorkel will completely screw most ppl up and make thing much more difficult.

I have to think that out is safer, based on that experience.

As Mullins suggested, if alone when you BO and fall forward, in might be better with it in for that particular situation...

But a competitive American spearfisherman who fishes alone during competitions, etc uses a technique that I found interesting... He takes his snorkel out and if he's at all pushed a dive, he surfaces and throws himself onto his back every time and does recovery / hook breaths on his back.

He's properly weighted, so even if he BO's he will float until he regains consciousness.

Innovative... But I still think its smarter to use a trained buddy system!

If you use the buddy system, I think out is safer.
 

I've come to appreciate that we are far more complex than we are capable of fully understanding.

I've also heard many freedivers wonder how dolphins and such avoid SWBO. How do they know when they are close to the edge? One possible answer is that they really don't. Instead, the brain has a series in which it shuts things down when low on oxygen, with the memory formation and higher level cognitive functions being the first to go. The things that are embedded deeply into reflex memory may very well persist and be able to carry out even complex sequences such as swimming to the surface and breathing, in the case of the dolphin. They may actually BO frequently and they don't even know it because other functioning parts of their mind and nervous system complete the dive for them automatically when they do.


It is also quite possible that the events described by Bill were not really a matter of luck at all. First, the higher level functions of the mind shut down, but other parts remain functioning and are capable of completing the dive which included swimming to the surface and executing the choreographed sequence of events that are required to purge the snorkel and recover. Our bodies are often capable of doing things that seem improbable or even impossible.
 
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