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Tomba - All in One barrel sealing

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Cross section of the adapter and the ring:



Inner part of the boring in the adapter is a taper so is the sliding ring.
I am preparing to make this for my new tomba. The taper have to insure center positioning of the slider ring and better sealing after shooting.

[FONT=&quot]I have got some feedback from the users of my new tomba. The noise of this kind of metal slider ring is much lower due to some kind of hydro braking[/FONT]
 
Nice work tromic, your going to be keeping your new mill busy.:friday
Cheers, Don Paul
 
Thanks Don Paul. Now I can make tomba really easy (comparing to hand drill and screw driver method) and precise but it takes time anyway.
Cheers, tromic
 
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Are you going to sell them?

foxfish, I had two spare tombas so I sold them. Maybe I will sell one or two more in the future. I have just received an order for Airbalete but I could not make it because I have not the gun and I need precise measurements of the original muzzle an the shaft (6.5, 6.75, or 7 mm?). I am just finishing a tomba for my old Cressi 70 gun. It would use 7 mm shaft instead of original 8 mm. Yesterday I bought a devoto 7 mm shaft. I need one day more to finish the tomba.
 
foxfish, I had two spare tombas so I sold them. Maybe I will sell one or two more in the future. I have just received an order for Airbalete but I could not make it because I have not the gun and I need precise measurements of the original muzzle an the shaft (6.5, 6.75, or 7 mm?). I am just finishing a tomba for my old Cressi 70 gun. It would use 7 mm shaft instead of original 8 mm. Yesterday I bought a devoto 7 mm shaft. I need one day more to finish the tomba.

I could strip the muzzle off mine and mike it for you, let me know what dimension do you need?
Cheers, Don
 
I could strip the muzzle off mine and mike it for you, let me know what dimension do you need?
Cheers, Don

I actually need the technical drawing of the muzzle with all the dimensions (in mm units) especially thread size and step. I think I should make complete new muzzle. If there is possibility to seal the muzzle water hols with tubing or something other then I would need just the drawing of the screw on the front end of the gun. Don Paul, I do not want to bother you. Anyway thanks for help. I would ask a men to send me the muzzle from his gun if he wants tomba.

Cheers, tromic
 
I was happy with this tovarich like tomba:


Good performance, like tovarich, but now I am going to change it to the MicroTomba. I will make a thread on the end of the shaft and screw on a taper butt on the shaft. Recently I made similar 6,5 mm shaft for one Spark 70. It fits to my adapter to Cyrano 850 for the MicroTomba and 7 mm shaft. So I would be able to use both 6,5 mm and 7 mm shaft with the same gun (just other size O-ring) I prefer the slider version of the shaft over binding the line to the front of the shaft. With the new slider ring (hydro braking feature) MicroTomba would be more quiet. Other, to me more important reason is that I believe that in tovarich like construction, there is a chance, if some water remain in the muzzle, because the shaft is sealed to the muzzle most of the time, some water could under high pressure, be injected in the barrel, between the piston and the barrel. I actually had evidence that it was happened with my gun. The oil became milky. Not with the gun at the picture. It was while I had not rubber tubing over the muzzle holes, but the holes were blocked with plugs and binding tape.
 
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Keep up the great work mate, I always enjoy reading your posts.:friday
Cheers, Don Paul
 
I did it.


Both 6,5 mm i 7 mm shaft could be used with the same adapter on the gun. Adapter is ID 10,2 mm.

Omer Microspeed slider for Airbalete has OD 10,5 mm.

It was almost impossible to make thread on the demka vectra 6,6 mm shaft. It is 52 Rockwell hardness. I broke a tool for making thread but I did it at last.
 
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Broken mamba to MicroTomba conversion:



Both 7 mm and 6.5 mm shafts could be used.

On the picture:
1. Adapter to MicroTomba added to Mamba muzzle
2. MicroTomba on the 7 mm shaft
3. MicroTomba on the 6,5 mm shaft
4. Original Mamba sealing parts for the 7 mm shaft with Cyrano's slider.
 
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Are you going to sell them?

I have one spare Tomba to sell. For 7 mm shaft for Cyrano or similar gun. Contact me at PM. I would like some feedback about the performance. I haven't tried it yet in the see. I expect the gun with it would have outstanding performance.



Two O-rings are spare.
 
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I am curious about which vacuum kit is better regarding the performance of the spear at say 4 m, MicroTomba or Tovarich. I believe the winer could be MicroTomba. Tovarich is more simple but I do not like to tie the line to the front of the spear.

I find both MicroTomba and Tovarich to be same regarding the energy of the shaft, at 3,5 m distance. I had the gun (Cyrano 850) at 15 bars and used 1,5 mm mono line to tie the shaft.





But, I still believe MicroTomba is better. When I measured MicroTomba I had one additional knot on the line near the slider which under normal case I wouldnt have. Second, I put the cone part of the slider too firm on the flopper and it was threre all the time, even after shooting. It was supposed to slide down to the slider and become part of it making it more hidrodinamic.
I noticed this happened after I finished the measurement.

In both cases the pull of the shaft after two full wraps of line (3.5 m distance) was still 4 kg max (16 cm on the scale).


 
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Just thinking about water getting inside the gun's pressure chamber and turning the oil "milky". Water can get into the gun through the pumping process when charging the gun at the start of the season due to high air humidity, however the amount of water is very small and unlikely to be noticeable in the oil. If the pressure acting either side of the piston seal (or seals) equalizes then the mid-body "O" ring loses some of its sealing abilities by not being pressed hard against the wall of its seating groove and the rubber cone type tail seal can allow water to penetrate the pressurized air area as its flaring action against the inner barrel wall is temporarily inhibited. That will only happen when you have hydrobraking as the piston hits a volume of water inside the inner barrel which cannot escape and there is no air present to soften the blow by compressing instead. Hydrostatic pressure increases instantly as water is incompressible, however you would expect that this hydrostatic pressure should rapidly blow the sealed slider out of the gun before that pressure ramped up enough to bypass the piston seals and send water backwards into the gun. However without the "emergency blow-off" afforded by a sealed slider, muzzle systems such as the Tovarich and similar arrangements using a front tied spear may allow the hydrostatic pressure to spike just enough to allow water to penetrate the gun momentarily. So with these guns you need to keep virtually all water out of the inner barrel as there is nowhere for it to go until the spear tail exits the muzzle opening.

On spearguns using only hydrobraked muzzles there is a small flow path that allows water to escape the muzzle at a restricted rate, just enough to slow the piston down immediately before it hits the travel stop without building hydrostatic pressure in the muzzle to a level where it allows water to enter the gun's air spaces by overwhelming the piston seals. Tromic's sliding rubber cover, which seals off the converted muzzle's unused relief ports, acts as a hydrostatic pressure relief valve, so with the correct tension it should eliminate the problem of water entering the gun and contaminating the oil inside it.
 
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Just thinking about water getting inside the gun's pressure chamber and turning the oil "milky". Water can get into the gun through the pumping process when charging the gun at the start of the season due to high air humidity, however the amount of water is very small and unlikely to be noticeable in the oil. If the pressure acting either side of the piston seal (or seals) equalizes then the mid-body "O" ring loses some of its sealing abilities by not being pressed hard against the wall of its seating groove and the rubber cone type tail seal can allow water to penetrate the pressurized air area as its flaring action against the inner barrel wall is temporarily inhibited. That will only happen when you have hydrobraking as the piston hits a volume of water inside the inner barrel which cannot escape and there is no air present to soften the blow by compressing instead. Hydrostatic pressure increases instantly as water is incompressible, however you would expect that this hydrostatic pressure should rapidly blow the sealed slider out of the gun before that pressure ramped up enough to bypass the piston seals and send water backwards into the gun. However without the "emergency blow-off" afforded by a sealed slider, muzzle systems such as the Tovarich and similar arrangements using a front tied spear may allow the hydrostatic pressure to spike just enough to allow water to penetrate the gun momentarily. So with these guns you need to keep virtually all water out of the inner barrel as there is nowhere for it to go until the spear tail exits the muzzle opening.

On spearguns using only hydrobraked muzzles there is a small flow path that allows water to escape the muzzle at a restricted rate, just enough to slow the piston down immediately before it hits the travel stop without building hydrostatic pressure in the muzzle to a level where it allows water to enter the gun's air spaces by overwhelming the piston seals. Tromic's sliding rubber cover, which seals off the converted muzzle's unused relief ports, acts as a hydrostatic pressure relief valve, so with the correct tension it should eliminate the problem of water entering the gun and contaminating the oil inside it.

That is all right, Peter. Thanks for explaining the problem little more.

Here is my new adapter to muzzle for tomba anodized:

 
Tromic congrats on the progress, you have slowly been perfecting your system, great work:friday
 
Tromic congrats on the progress, you have slowly been perfecting your system, great work:friday

Thanks, settingsteel. I am trying to perfect my system even more. I think only minor enhancement is possible - to make some parts on the shaft even smaller and the spear more hydrodinamic. Some enhancement is still possible. But even now the system is very good and the users are very happy with it, even with the regular tomba. They told me that they noticed 50 - 60 % better performance. The gun also make less noise. MicroTomba is still better but I had not feed back from the users yet. I tried it myself only shortly. It seems to be very good. I think the performance is very near, if not the same, as the russian taimen. The slider version of that gun could not be better in performance as I could see from the video.
 
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Thanks, settingsteel. I am trying to perfect my system even more. I think only minor enhancement is possible - to make some parts on the shaft even smaller and the spear more hydrodinamic. Some enhancement is still possible. But even now the system is very good and the users are very happy with it, even with the regular tomba. They told me that they noticed 50 - 60 % better performance. The gun also make less noise. MicroTomba is still better but I had not feed back from the users yet. I tried it myself only shortly. It seems to be very good. I think the performance is very near, if not the same, as the russian taimen. The slider version of that gun could not be better in performance as I could see from the video.


Great work tromic, if you ever do one for the Airbalete with 7mm shaft let me know. I would be interested in purchasing, I plan on more little league then machine work this year.:friday
Cheers, Don
 
Great work tromic, if you ever do one for the Airbalete with 7mm shaft let me know. I would be interested in purchasing, I plan on more little league then machine work this year.:friday
Cheers, Don

Thanks, Don.
I could make a replacement for this part of the Airbalete muzzle:

If I had the picture of it with measures I could maybe make one tomba for you. I would like you to try tomba. I just make it for fun, anyway.
Cheers, tromic
 
I would like you to make a tomba for Don too, it would be a great addition to his gun & would also get a good testing.
 
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