Torch - anybody use a torch for spearing?

[Mr. X]

I see Grouper madness has the by-line: "hole,torch,gun,fish.". I was curious as to how common using a torch was -- and how best to use it.

The reason for my interest is (1) the viz in Dorset sucks and (2) I bumped into some divers who had seen several dog fish near where I had entered the water but further out & deeper...however, they reckon they only saw them (4ft viz at surface) because one of the guys brought a torch.

Any recommendations on torches; a diver friend reckoned they are really expensive ...but seems like you should be able to get some decent pretty cheap these days.

 

[stoneshot]

I have used a light for years on smaller guns under 48" for shooting around and under ledges. Chad carney makes a holder for a torch, send him a pm.

 

[SurfnSpear]

I use a £25 UK mini Q 40 mask torch that I got from Portland Oceaneering. Last time was early morning under the pier at Boscombe...as the sun does not always shine through...Very useful for lobster though and a friend straps the same version to a small lobster loop pole he was experimenting with in the summer.

 

[Mr. X]

I have used a light for years on smaller guns under 48" for shooting around and under ledges. Chad carney makes a holder for a torch, send him a pm.

Funnily enough I read something by Chad last night -- different thread entirely!

Strangely, somebody left a small army signalling torch on my table here. Its like the sturdy old L-shaped British army ones but this one is much smaller (takes 2 AAs), brittle plastic and came from a US army surplus store. All the joins have rubber O-rings...I wonder....nah! The switch doesn't look waterproof -- doh! I wonder if those mini-mag-lights are waterproof -- I have a few of those some with halogen bulbs, they have rubberized switches and O-rings...anodized aluminium is pretty salt water resistant too.....

I use a £25 UK mini Q 40 mask torch that I got from Portland Oceaneering. Last time was early morning under the pier at Boscombe...as the sun does not always shine through...Very useful for lobster though and a friend straps the same version to a small lobster loop pole he was experimenting with in the summer.

Found it:
https://portlandoceaneering.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=328&osCsid=2bf003a1a6a8a5d38d7cca5d17185437

Sounds good. My "neck of the woods" too. Do you attach it to your mask strap or speargun?

[It looks like the manufacturer offer several similar models with different LEDs & bulbs:
http://www.uwkinetics.com/CategoryDisplay_cgmenbr=91%26cgrfnbr=841.htm ]

 

[Mr. X]

Just got a PM from GrouperMadness, he suggested the Omer Moonlight (although he doesn't use it) & lots of power from a handheld torch

http://www.omersub.com/catalog/flashlights/p1.htm (5W)

https://sslrelay.com/s87910425.oneandoneshop.co.uk/sess/utn;jsessionid=15439165e8837bc/shopdata/0040_Freediving+=26amp=3B+Spearfishing/0140_Torches/product_overview.shopscript

 

[Groupermadness]

Mr X pm Shane , he bought a ikilight last year and praised it then , its been a year so he can give a report on it , its suposed to be good, i still use a old hand me down, and it doesnt have a name(well i cant see one on it, but its Bright and reliable, and has a batt life of 4 hours constant.

 

[mdemon]

You can spend a fortune on dive lights! My recommendation would be to buy something cheap on ebay (go to the scuba bit) and upgrade the batteries to top quality rechargeables. Divers have spent a lot of time thinking about lights - learn from their mistakes...

One thing to consider - bright isn't necessarily good. It scares the fish away, and some fish like pollack actually attack on some of our wrecks! I had a Mares Arturo upgraded to 100w which would illuminate the entire side of a wreck. Great for mucking about in wrecks but not a fish to be seen...

I now dive using a small 4x'C' torch with two small backups. The beam is less bright and more focussed; the batteries are upgraded and will run this for 2-4 hours! I hope this helps - diver, not a spearo yet so take with a pinch of salt.

Just a thought, but IIRC fish don't see red. Get some red film and cover the lens with it - maybe it will make you invisible?! Who knows...

 

[Huan]

Mdemon, Pollack attack?
Wow! I would love to see that, do they go for the light or for the diver?

 

[mdemon]

Yup, they do! It last happened to me when I dived the wreck of the Bretagne a year or so ago (night dive).

The larger ones I guess are around 18" and swim into your chest - quite un-nerving when they do it for the first time! I now hold my torch out at arm's length. So, "head-butted" might be more appropriate than "attacked"!

 

[Murat]

i had moonlight elite 10w, its very powerfull but chip burns inside it sometimes and needs replacement.

Torch is as important as having gun while hunting grouper, but you should use it for the last resort since some groupers scares off the light and turns it's back to you as soon as you light its cave. But 90 percent of time you use it to shoot the fish.

 

[Ted Budion]

In Southern Brazil, a UW torch is like the famous credit card: don't leave home without. Absolutely mandatory for cave hunting. We use small ones tethered the gun-less arm. Most common brands are Princeton Tec Surge, Bottom Light, Omer Moonlight etc. Years ago, the Technisub Quartz was the big hit.

I saw one in Europe that seems to be the Ferrari of small torches: Fa&Mi Power Led 40. Small, very powerfull, uses 3 LEDs instead of lamps, hence low battery (4) consuption. Expensive though: €279. Decathlon, in Paris, sells it for €225.

 

[Murat]

Ted, do you have a link for it? What is its size?

 

[Mr. X]

This one looks quite promising too (same maker as the earlier one), handly lanyards too:

http://www.uwkinetics.com/products/detail.php?ProductID=29&cat=6 (8W)
http://www.uwkinetics.com/products/detail.php?ProductID=8&cat=6 (5.5W)

Anybody have opinions on bulb/LED type? I have no experience of LED torches -- are they good/long lasting/bright. I have used regular bulbs & halogen in Petzl headtorches (for climbing not diving). I usually used halogen...much brighter...but carried a spare battery & regular bulb as the halogen used up batteries 3 or 4 times as quickly (which was ideal for normal, sporadic use).

e.g.

• Xenon (2.1W/38Lm av) [presumably this is halogen?],
• Lambertian LED (2x1W->2-2.5W/40Lm peak),
• High intensity Side-Emitting LED (1W/30Lm av)
• Halogen 5W

(Strangely the 5W Omer torch has a 6V 0.55A bulb -- which suggest 3.3W power, rather than 5 -- but they run it at 9V...giving 4.95W)

Rechargeable Batteries?
Apnea's Omer rechargeable torch is being sold at silly prices. Is it worth using rechargeable batteries? I think I may have some cheap old AAs around the house already, and possibly some a little better (rechargeable batteries are not all created equal -- some are much poorer than others).

BTW Amazon has a good selection. US prices, as usual, much less than UK (to make up for earning less & being taxed more rofl !)-- so much difference, it might well be worth ordering direct from US:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html/103-9113841-6685446?_encoding=UTF8&node=3406381&no=3406281&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

[Huan]

I have several LED torches and while I find them superb for dry use long battery life etc, in the water they just don't cut it.
The LEDs are IMHO just not powerful enough yet.
I have not seen any dive torches with the Luxeon Star LED so maybe I am wrong and there is good LED dive torches but for my money a simple Halogen/xenon type torch is better.
Rechargeables are not really the best thing for torches as they are slightly lower voltage 1.2v as opposed to 1.5v in an alkaline battery.
for example in my Ikelite PCa there is 6 x 1.5v batteries giving ~9v if you use rechargeables the voltage will be only 7.2v
This has ramifications for bulb life too.

 

[Mr. X]

i had moonlight elite 10w, its very powerful but chip burns inside it sometimes and needs replacement.

The chip - some sort of power regulator? Oh my ...it has a circuit board:
http://www.omersub.com/spare/moonlight10w.htm
...that might be too much technology for me. I like(/need?!) simple, robust equipment -- otherwise stuff breaks. How much is a new circuit board I wonder? (More than a UK Q40?!)

 

[Marwan]

i have the small one which attaches to your mask (shown in MR. X's post above), great mask, surprisingly light , very stron and well focused, cheap too, got it for 20$ from spearfishinggear.
cheers

 

[mdemon]

LED is great for a backup gauge reader - less good for normal penetration.

HID is great but costs a fortune. Might be cool if you are rich enough to mount an umbillical onto the gun...

Halogen - cheap and cheerful. Best of all worlds.

 

[Huan]

Don't even go there with *umbilical on gun etc*
This will go the same way as the thread on mounting a Laser sight onto a speargun...
I agree cheap and cheerful is the way to go with torches, I have a few and the ones that have lasted the longest are the simplest.
I have a Cressi sub and a PCa Ikelite and they are both good.

 

[Mr. X]

Halogen - cheap and cheerful. Best of all worlds.

Glad to hear that, as that is pretty much what I have decided on. The LEDs look pretty good these days -- but still seem more expensive for similar/less performance (although supposedly more reliable -- I am sceptical of lower power claims). I read the advice given here and will probably get a couple of torches:

- a UK Mini Q40 -- the bottom of the line one...which I think is Xenon/Halogen (rather than LED or LEDplus). I didn't ignore the advice on size -- I was just quite taken by the design of this one and felt sure I could use it (I am big fan of head torches after some initial scepticism...this seems like the underwater equivalent).

- a more powerful handheld torch. Not sure what yet. Maybe just a regular dive torch, or maybe something big, second hand and cheap. I have seen a few large, old rechargeable UK lamps for sale at good prices...although I am wondering why so many of these are for sale; maybe they were just particularly popular 5-10 years ago but maybe the batteries have faded and/or better stuff is available now? [Actually, I notice a lot of divers retire from the sport, often due to illness , or switch to just renting gear on holiday]. I guess 10 years ago they cost a lot less too!

 

[rcerdena]

Using a torch for spearfishing in holes is a must, one must be carried all the time in the buoy to use it whenever it is necessary.
However, it is usual for me to carry the torch in the stomach, under the wetsuit jacket (close to the belt line), that way I don't have to swim to the buoy everytime I want to use it and it's accessibility is easy too.

For many years I have used the Ikelite PcLite, it has gone through a lot of abuse and it still works.

Hope this helps,

Cheers

Roberto