Training progress rates and how hard to push it?

[ashirk]

Hi all,

I'm relatively new any formal apnea training and have been working at it now for about 3 months, doing workouts and conditioning, CO2 and O2 tables, etc.

One question I have is how quickly can one expect to progress in their breath-hold performance? I see claims on the internet about getting a 5min breath-hold time in 30 days or something, but that certainly isn't my experience.

Second, corollary question: How hard should one push himself in training tables (CO2 / O2 land training)? This question is really getting at how much discomfort I should be feeling during tables. I have a bit of old school mentality of "no pain no gain", but I'm sensing that this attitude isn't necessarily the best for freediving. I currently don't kill myself on my tables, but experience a bit of mild discomfort and I'm not even sure I know what a true contraction is.

If you have a breath-hold >= 5min, how long and hard did you train to get there?

 

[Jo_duiker]

Great questions. I did see a 5min breathhold "claim" in 30 days too. Well, it wasn't exactly a die hard "we guarantee this" claim. Is it this one here? http://freediveuk.com/how-to-hold-your-breath-for-5-minutes-in-1month-freediving-training/
So, they do NOT guarantee a 5(+) min after one month. There's a test at the beginning, to estimate how well you might (approximately) do: do a breathhold to start with: and depending whether you get to 1, 1:30 or 2:00+ in that hold, they estimate you will (respectively) do 3:00, 4:00 or 5:00 after a month. (It also says: you may do better, you may do worse...

That is to say, if you do the training schedule attached of course. The point is being able to hold onto it and do it meticulously. This means: having the time and the motivation to do actually do it.

So, no, I can not tell you if this works. Anyone else, perhaps?

 

[J Campbell]

How long can you hold your breath? The answer is that you can hold your breath until you pass out - whether or not you have the stamina and willpower to do that is another question. So, if you are trying to forever extend your personal best, then you will have to be pushing into the (extreme) discomfort zone. Only competitive freedivers really need to be doing that. I think the more important thing for a recreational freediver is to learn the relaxation skills to further extend a "reasonable" breath hold. The more useful thing is to be able to do a good dive to a good depth and have a little bottom time to take a picture or spear a fish. Doing statics is useful for a beginner to familiarize with the various sensations and feelings encountered in a breath hold and learning to relax into a breath hold. But many freedivers on here will tell you that doing long statics has no real benefit once you become experienced.

 

[NoFair]

I agree with the above. Your dry static might not have a huge impact on your practical dive times if you aren't calm and comfortable while you dive. I've always been pretty decent and haven't really trained much for it, but I still have a 6:11 dry static as best and 5+ is usually pretty easy.

 

[ashirk]

Ok cool thanks for the replies. @NoFair your performance seems pretty unique, at least in my experience. Have you always been able to hold your breath for a long time like that? Maybe it's just the circles I run in but I've never really met a whole lot of people who can easily do that, at least not without some significant training. That's very cool, I'm jealous.

 

[J Campbell]

Just for comparison here is a poll taken on Spearboard.com:

http://spearboard.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=412

 

[ashirk]

Interesting. So looks like 5 - 7 minutes is roughly top 10% of those taking the poll. 3-5 min is average. Thanks.

 

[NoFair]

Ok cool thanks for the replies. @NoFair your performance seems pretty unique, at least in my experience. Have you always been able to hold your breath for a long time like that? Maybe it's just the circles I run in but I've never really met a whole lot of people who can easily do that, at least not without some significant training. That's very cool, I'm jealous.

I've been freediving since I was 9 and we used to compete in holding our breaths (on land) as teenagers as well. So it is some kind of training. I sometimes do CO2 tables and apnea walks now, but not very often.

 

[emile.c]

On my experience you can train to extend your comfort zone, but you will have to enter the struggling phase to make your personal best.
As said above relaxation and breath-ups are key factors but you cannot compare your results with anybody else's at least until you get very good at it.
What I mean is that everybody is different and achieves goals in different ways and with different times.
CO2 an O2 tables will improve your physical response, mental training will help you understand and accept your struggling phase so with time, this will automatically improve your dive times.

Don't rush. Set your goals (reasonable ones) one at a time, and keep up the training. I'm sure you will get there!

Cheers,
Emile

 

[IanCaio]

Ashirk,

I think I've the same doubt as you. I keep wondering if with proper training we develop a tolerance to the physical feelings of hypercapnia (just learned this word today, gotta use it! ) or if we just learn to push further, even with those bad sensations. If we don't build a physical tolerance, a experienced diver and a beginner would go through the same feelings during a 3 minute hold, or a 5 minute hold, which sounds odd. Maybe we create both a physical and a psychological tolerance, I really find it hard to imagine that a diver that can hold his/her breath for 7 minutes can endure those bad sensations I've on the end of a 3 minute hold for another 4 minutes.

I'm reading some articles about diving, I really think it's time for me to learn the science behind it, since I don't think I'll be able to find a freediving course so soon. If I find some good stuff I'll link it for you!

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Hi Ashirk
Here is my experience as a beginner so far. I started dry training about a month ago with a time of 1:25, grabbed a breath as soon as contractions started. I too had read lots of accounts of people getting to 3 - 5 min within a month. I've been doing CO2 table about 4 times a week and resently started a single breath CO2 table with an iPhone app. I also do some casual apnea walking at lunch 3 days a week. All of these training activities get me well into contractions. Now, one month later, I still get contractions starting at 1:25 and can tolerate them for 30 - 40 seconds as they increase. So my time has increased a little to 2:10 but seemingly only because I can deal with the contractions a little better. I wouldn't say it's become any easier I just know how to tolerate it a bit more. I can't imagine dealing with the contractions for another 3 minutes to get to a five minute hold. I find I give up the hold due to a somewhat painful lump forming at the top of my throat. Hopefully that will decrease with training.

One interesting thing with the walking apnea is the contraction build very quickly and actually force air out my nose sometimes no matter how hard I try to keep everything in, has anyone else experienced this.

I would love to try some wet breath holds and dives but haven't found anyone yet to train with. I live in Squamish BC, Canada so if anyone lives out here let me know if there are any schools, groups or clubs let me know.

 

[NoFair]

I really find it hard to imagine that a diver that can hold his/her breath for 7 minutes can endure those bad sensations I've on the end of a 3 minute hold for another 4 minutes.

I usually have a more discomfort about 60% through than during most of the breath hold. It gets bad again closer to the end (this is a static so pushing it a bit isn't dangerous)

 

[IanCaio]

I usually have a more discomfort about 60% through than during most of the breath hold. It gets bad again closer to the end (this is a static so pushing it a bit isn't dangerous)

Sorry I took a long to answer, been in a rush last few days!
My performance has dropped good after 13 days without training, so I did a table those days with a smaller hold time. Guess I'll start lower at least for a while. For me it usually starts with a comfortable feeling, not a single drop of effort (first few seconds up to a minute), then I start feeling a small discomfort, like some pressure on my stomach. I feel like hardening my abs, but I try to delay it so I don't burn oxygen contracting muscles. At some point it just relaxes me to contract it a little bit. The discomfort builds up, some rare times I feel some heat on my face (it's usually harder when I do). I usually have to push it further into this "struggle phase" to get a contraction and going that far takes a little mental preparation. My mindset makes a huge impact on how hard the hold seems and how difficult it is to relax. I took this break from training because my times were increasing to a point where I couldn't just hop into a table, but would have to be in a positive mindset and prepared.
Eventually (but not frequently) I'd do a table and would be unconfident since the beginning, making it really hard to struggle past the middle of the table, where it is harder to give up.

Right now I'll just try to build my CO2 table hold-time up to 1:50 again. I had 2:00 before and last time I did it it was 1:30. I'll just not push too hard for a while, my confidence is a little low on my performance those days :/

 

[johntsu]

Hi Ashirk
Here is my experience as a beginner so far. I started dry training about a month ago with a time of 1:25, grabbed a breath as soon as contractions started. I too had read lots of accounts of people getting to 3 - 5 min within a month. I've been doing CO2 table about 4 times a week and resently started a single breath CO2 table with an iPhone app. I also do some casual apnea walking at lunch 3 days a week. All of these training activities get me well into contractions. Now, one month later, I still get contractions starting at 1:25 and can tolerate them for 30 - 40 seconds as they increase. So my time has increased a little to 2:10 but seemingly only because I can deal with the contractions a little better. I wouldn't say it's become any easier I just know how to tolerate it a bit more. I can't imagine dealing with the contractions for another 3 minutes to get to a five minute hold. I find I give up the hold due to a somewhat painful lump forming at the top of my throat. Hopefully that will decrease with training.

One interesting thing with the walking apnea is the contraction build very quickly and actually force air out my nose sometimes no matter how hard I try to keep everything in, has anyone else experienced this.

I would love to try some wet breath holds and dives but haven't found anyone yet to train with. I live in Squamish BC, Canada so if anyone lives out here let me know if there are any schools, groups or clubs let me know.

Hi Billy,

I'm new to free diving and live in Squamish as well. A friend and I just took the AIDA level 2 course with - http://www.oceanoid.com and can't recommend them enough. They are amazing teachers. Before the course I was only able to do around 1 minute practicing on my own. With a few tips I was able to do 2:45 on the first day of the course. The technique and safety skills you learn in the course will make a huge difference right away.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Thanks for link John,

I'm going to look into the courses they offer.

I've been able to increase my CO2 and O2 tables quite over the last two weeks, but I haven't done a full test in a while, I'm hoping for around 2:30

 

[Kray]

I don't care much of static as it does not really improve my dive. I guess I have a reasonably low blood pressure. I can dive myself into samba black out if I want to. On my first freediving course I got to 4.40 on my third attempt. After playing around with co2 table 5+ came easy. Last time I did measure it I got to 6 on by skipping breakfast. Contraction started at 3.45 so i didn't really suffer for long. I found no warmup static more challenging and more relevant to actual dive, so I've been doing that every morning.

 

[Danny.c]

Hi all,

I'm relatively new any formal apnea training and have been working at it now for about 3 months, doing workouts and conditioning, CO2 and O2 tables, etc.

One question I have is how quickly can one expect to progress in their breath-hold performance? I see claims on the internet about getting a 5min breath-hold time in 30 days or something, but that certainly isn't my experience.

Second, corollary question: How hard should one push himself in training tables (CO2 / O2 land training)? This question is really getting at how much discomfort I should be feeling during tables. I have a bit of old school mentality of "no pain no gain", but I'm sensing that this attitude isn't necessarily the best for freediving. I currently don't kill myself on my tables, but experience a bit of mild discomfort and I'm not even sure I know what a true contraction is.

If you have a breath-hold >= 5min, how long and hard did you train to get there?

It took me 3 weeks to get a 5min breath hold.
I trained twice a week but what helped me-I work in construction sometimes very big jobs,so if I had to walk some were to get tools or do some thing,I would count how many steps I could do On one breath ,which was around 100 or more steps I did this every day.Yes I looked silly walking around holding my breath trying too look like a normal person .Then one night I had a few beers,I felt overly relaxed and that is how I got too 5min,I don't even practice anymore,I just go diving.I currently do about 1 day a month apnea training.In saying all that,because I dive mostly alone I limit my self to only 1min max under water no matter what.

 

[Mike H]

Im also fairly new to any form of apnea and freediving. Have not even tried it yet, but I will attend a beginners coarse later this year.

I decided to start training apnea about a month ago, by doing dry-holds at home. About 18 years ago I remember I was able to do
a 2:40 dry-hold, but since then Ive not been doing any breath holds at all. When I decided to take this up again I did 2:10 in my second attempt and was amazed I could do this good after so many years. I had to see how far I could push it so I started looking for more information on how to properly do the apnea, and got to 3min in a few days easy, by just doing a better "full" inhale, better relaxing and for me the biggest improvement came after realizing that the discomfort I was feeling wasnt killing me. The more I practice and the more I endure this discomfort, the easier it becomes.
After another week I was able to push the time to 3:45 without adding any additional training, just doing some random holds now and then.

One more week and I did a 4min+ hold, and this is where I started doing CO2 tables and also one pack after the inhale. In a week I did 3 CO2 tables with increasing difficulty and after that managed a 4:20 hold. After this I swapped the CO2 tables for O2 and I also started doing them lying down instead of sitting. Had a week with just a few random holds and two of these tables and then decided to do one with relaxing music and focusing on relaxing the body and head. The O2 table was 8 holds from 1:30 to 3:15 holds 15s increment with 2:00 resting time in between. About 5min after completing the table I went for max and did 5min+.

In my understanding, some important points for improving apnea times
Learn how to do a full breath hold.
Learn to relax body and head
Understand why you feel the urge to breathe
Resist that urge, it wont kill you

When I got my 5min time I had about 2min without any contractions, about 1min with mild contractions and the last 2min with heavy ones. In my opinion, making a 5min apnea is prob achievable in a week. I mean, almost everyone already got the ability to manage this. They just need their mind to accept it...

 

[Danny.c]

Nice.Now I will have to find out what a co2 table is and what packing means,So much to learn.

 

[Frenzyfinder]

A month ago I was barely able to hold a few 45 second dry static holds. I built a few tables to practice every other day and have seen drastic improvement. I am now able to hold a 2.5min dry static hold and I can hold multiple 1min holds on the elliptical or stationary bike.

My advice to other beginners is to use static holds as a guide for your mental aptitude. You must make sure you do some sort of dynamic training because holding your breath while expending energy is a lot more cumbersome than just staying still.


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